Amfa Card Count

[Cooper]

It appears that AMFA got off to a good start but, does not have the horsepower to finnish the race, the drive only has 4 months left and the card count is not even at 52% , 9% is quite alot to get in only 4 months, apparently the TWU PR firm is doing a good job of making the TWU look good.

I personally would prefere AMFA over the TWU but, it appears that the TWU move in hiring the PR firm is proving very fruitfull for them, maybe AMFA should start thinking about hiring a PR firm to make them look good, amateur promoters against professional promoters is a bad idea ?


8313 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards by Station and Title Group:
Updated, Thursday November 13, 2003 at 12:24:32 PM. Our goal is to obtain 60% of the Craft and Class of
Mechanic and Related, and at this time, our estimate of that number, with 'elbow room' is approximately 9,675 cards.
Using that number, at this time, we are about 86.0% to our goal, or approximately 51.5% of our Craft and Class. Good job so far, and let's
REDOUBLE our efforts and GET THIS

 

[Kev3188]

With all the recent "events" the TWU has had (Kirk Wells, insider trading accusations, not to mention the horrific contract), I would think that AMFA wouldn't need to compete against the TWU. AMFA doesn't need to hire a PR firm to prove it's value to AA mechanics-the TWU is doing it for them.

 

[Cooper]

Once again look at the card count and how many months left in the drive, the cards must come in faster or AMFA will fail, I believe that if the TWU was defending itself as opposed to a PROFESSIONAL organization defending them then AMFA would spank them, but the TWU is not defending their selves a professional PR firm is defending them and they obviously are doing a fair job as the cards are not coming in fast enough to meet the march campaign start date, so if AMFA is going to win this then someone had better come up with a game plan.
I am all for being optimistic but not too the point of overlooking where we are and where we need to be.

I don't have the answer but, 51.5% and only 4 months left before the cards start to expire is not a good thing, the drive really needs to be at about 54% now, AMFA requires 60% before they will file for an election.

I stand by my statement that AMFA should hire a PR firm to help Mechanics see the difference between the TWU and AMFA.

 

[Superside]

It appears that AMFA got off to a good start but, does not have the horsepower to finnish the race, the drive only has 4 months left and the card count is not even at 52% , 9% is quite alot to get in only 4 months, apparently the TWU PR firm is doing a good job of making the TWU look good.

I personally would prefere AMFA over the TWU but, it appears that the TWU move in hiring the PR firm is proving very fruitfull for them, maybe AMFA should start thinking about hiring a PR firm to make them look good, amateur promoters against professional promoters is a bad idea ?


8313 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards by Station and Title Group:
Updated, Thursday November 13, 2003 at 12:24:32 PM. Our goal is to obtain 60% of the Craft and Class of
Mechanic and Related, and at this time, our estimate of that number, with 'elbow room' is approximately 9,675 cards.
Using that number, at this time, we are about 86.0% to our goal, or approximately 51.5% of our Craft and Class. Good job so far, and let's
REDOUBLE our efforts and GET THIS

Welcome to the forum Cooper,
I hope since you prefer AMFA over TWU you have signed an Election Authorization Card. Hope you enjoy the discussion here. At 8313 cards the average is 260 a month, well within the time needed to get the 60% desired.

 

[Cooper]

Yes I did sign a card and I agree with the average, but as you know most of that average was achieved in the first 3 months, the cards are not coming in at 260 a month anymore, we all know this, something needs to be done to get those cards coming in again, maybe you have some ideas as to what needs to be done, I know you are going to say go get someone to sign a card, sorry I have done all that I am willing by signing a card myself, I applaud your optimism but that alone will not produce 1000 more cards in 4 months.
I am not trying to be pesemistic, I am just pointing out that it is time for affirmative action by the organizers if AMFA is to win this and if it looks like the cards are not going to pick up then maybe it is time to investigate the separate maintenance division in the TWU, something good needs to come out of this AMFA drive and this huge concession.
most of us cannot afford another contract like this one.

 

[Checking it Out]

As I have indicated in the past amfa has been here before and fails. The issues amfa is trying to capatilize on are very weak at best.

With the announcement today about the movement of work at the maintenance bases and keeping more work inhouse than any other airline, anybody wishing to go for amfa is a fool and is looking to got to the street! The record of outsourcing of work under amfa's control speaks for itself on another thread.

TWU keeps work inhouse.

AMFA allows the elimination of work?

There is only one smart choice!!!!!!

 

[Birdman]

Cooper, the pr firm has not yet begun their campaign publicly to bolster the image of the TWU. We in Tulsa can not wait to see how this will be accomplished. CIO, you said "AMFA allows the elimination of work". Aren't there two arbitration cases at Northwest regarding the "Forced Majure"? Your comment seems a little misleading. BTW, will the current contract at AA, that becomes ammendable Dec. 31, 2008, be abrogated if the AMFA becomes their new representative? If not, how and why would AA change the status of their current arrangement they have with the Mechanic Craft and Class? Yours, Birdman

 

[Checking it Out]

Birdman, If the PDX arbitration is an example and the information I'm hearing from the other cases I don't think I'm far off. I also hear their is discussions at NW to outsource additional work.

 

[Birdman]

CIO, I'm sorry I really don't understand your response. In regard to future outsourcing at NW, I don't know what their current otsrc percentage is but isn't there a 38% cap on otsrc with 100% penalty on violations? Also, could you respond to my 2nd and 3rd questions in my previous post? Yours, Birdman

 

[Cooper]

Sorry CIO I do not buy the TWU saves more jobs than AMFA pitch, and clearly the majority at AA does not buy that pitch as the card count is over 51% but as to whether AMFA will get the required 60% well they may not, and if they don't I still would strongly recommend that the TWU clean up its act and stop giving our pay and benefits away, I put up with that crap once and I will not put up with it again. :angry: :angry:
I think that many people will have a hard time supporting the TWU again after what they have done to us, so if AMFA does not get enough cards then there will probably be alot of anti-Union people at AA because I am very sceptical that the TWU if capable of changing like they must, if they do not AMFA will keep coming back untill they eventually win, it can happen as it has happened at 9 other Airlines,
things do not look good for the AMFA drive at this point, and that disappoints me, but if AMFA does not get the cards as I said then the TWU still must change and a separate Maintenance division where Mechanics are separate from the other groups must happen and it needs to happen now!!!!!

Did you get that CIO the TWU must change in major ways

 

[AMFAMAN]

Birdman, If the PDX arbitration is an example and the information I'm hearing from the other cases I don't think I'm far off. I also hear their is discussions at NW to outsource additional work.

Post your sources or are they Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, better yet Jerry Sewell.

 

[Bob Owens]

Did you get that CIO the TWU must change in major ways

Been there, tried that.

The TWU will not make any meaningful changes.

When they initiated the separate Locals they deliberately made it half baked so it would not work.

The separate locals simply resulted in more locals, not a restructuring.

In order to make all these locals financially viable they sold the company on paying Presidents salaries. Why would a company agree to pay Presidents salaries? Why would they agree to carry the financial burden of having too many Locals? Why would they subsidize the unions poor management? Prior to the separate locals they did not do it. What was the exchange between the union and the company?

If you recall that was one of the concessions on the company's list. Just about the only thing that the union did not give up. Why would the company continue to pay Presidents salaries?

If we only have 35000 total AA members do we really need over 20 locals? Its a structure which makes Locals weak and the International strong (relatively speaking of course).

The fact is that the separate locals further fragmented growing opposition to Sonny Hall. Since Sonny Hall is the best friend that any company ever had we know why the company pays Presidents salaries.

The Local is the only level of the Union that is directly accountable to the members. By making the Locals smaller, and weaker, it makes the members weaker.

I agree with the idea of separate locals but the process was never completed and the needed restructuring never occured.


The TWU has no plan to ever improve our wages and working conditions. Their only plan is to try and find more members.

As mechanics our pay is primarily determined by the rate that other mechanics get, not the rate that others in the same union (TWU) get. The rate that other mechanics get, in turn is influenced by what we get. If we are ever to see real, lasting improvements in our pay and working conditions we must get all the mechanics in one union. We have to get in a union thats primary purpose is to elevate the profession. AMFA is the only viable means to that end.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

As I have indicated in the past amfa has been here before and fails. The issues amfa is trying to capatilize on are very weak at best.


cio, would the issues AMFA is trying to capatilize on by any chance happen to be the very weakness of the twu? You know, the inability to protect my craft and profession? The UNdemocratic format the twu is based on? The UNaccountability the twu is based on?

From behind your curtain of secrecy you attempt to deceive. Step into the light and answer easy questions.

1) What has the twu done to protect my craft and profession?
2) Why did unelected officials remove elected officials from Local 562?
3) Why are my contract negotiations kept secret?
4) Why did the Tulsa have to hire a pr firm to promote the twu?
5) Where is well's A&P?
6) Why is the current AMFA drive at AA the best yet?

 

[Birdman]

CIO, Can you please answer the questions I posed to you on this thread? I, in return will certainly and honestly answer yours. Yours,Birdman


BTW, will the current contract at AA, that becomes ammendable Dec. 31, 2008, be abrogated if the AMFA becomes their new representative? If not, how and why would AA change the status of their current arrangement they have with the Mechanic Craft and Class? Yours, Birdman

 

[Hackman]

CIO, Can you please answer the questions I posed to you on this thread? I, in return will certainly and honestly answer yours. Yours,Birdman


BTW, will the current contract at AA, that becomes ammendable Dec. 31, 2008, be abrogated if the AMFA becomes their new representative? If not, how and why would AA change the status of their current arrangement they have with the Mechanic Craft and Class? Yours, Birdman

Birdman,

cio won't answer you, he can't tell the truth and when he gets caught in his lies, he runs... like a true twu 514 lackey.

The twu mantra, concessions for jobs, is just pure BS. You try to make twu lackeys like cio understand WE at AA have the WORST concessionary contract of any airlne flying, and we also have the LAYOFFS to match. The twu will never admit how badly they failed.

Not only this, but the twu and only the twu, have LOWERED THE STANDARD OF LIVING AT ALL MAJORS, the other airlines are now trying to capitalize on the twu concession blunder, bringing the wage and benefits to poverty levels for all carriers. This is the final twu duplicity.

Here is some more cio "barnyard logic" from the past:

Hello eveyrone,

Dave the truth hurts! Don't it?
The LOA's have been in existance since WE the Membership Voted in the twu. WE the Membership Voted in the officers of Our Union. WE the Membership Elected Individuals to Represent our Best Intrest. WE the membership has allowed the Brothers and Sisters to do the best job they can for US!


WE the Brother and Sisters of the TWU!is what it is ALL about!

Unlike local 12 which has a few cult followers who choose to give the membership half Truths and Rhetoric! Take away the 12 members and Numerous alias of the 12 and you have no substance!

Keep up the Faith all you TWU brothers and Sisters! ALL of us together and WE will have and a lic. (that's ILC cio, which never happened)

Thanks for Your Time! TWU SOLIDARITY

Posted by the twu coward, cio. 6/11/2001 PlaneBusiness Talk: 798 Letters of Agreement and Letters of Memoranda-twu.

It is plainly visible, Mr. rick mullins (cio) firmly has his head in his anus. Is he completely retarded supporting the twu?(very possible) OR (here's the true cio plan) he has a lock on the twu international position and the six figure income that goes with it.

Keep guessing what the card count is cio, we'll let you know the count when we file with the NMB.

BTW cio, I'll be thinking of you when I work Friday Nov 28 thanks to the twu concessions. I will dedicate all the AMFA cards I get signed on Friday in your name.