And you want a raise?

[odie01]

Let's say we get our 2001 contract back with full retro and COLA, is it still OK for Joe Slug-go to slack off, and not pull his weight? AA could pay us 50.00 dollars an hour, and we still would have Joe Slug-go's doing 2 hours worth of work in an 8 hour shift. Why is that? It's because our lame ### union isn't policing their men, they protect the lazy unskilled workers, just like company dictates, to keep control of their union. Honestly, I've been working for AA 23 years now, and I've never needed the union for anything. At times I wish we didn't even have a union, but without a union this company would run all over us, so it's the proverbial double edge sword. So why have a union that doesn't look out for it's own membership? Why BE in a union where you can't elect or recall the highest office? Why be in a union with unskilled labor groups, that also tap into our dues? I just don't get it, we have the opportunity to separate ourselves from the corruption of this catch all labor union, and gain respect with a skilled craft union like AMP. This is it, if we don't do it now, we're stuck in the rut.

 

[Vortilon]

"ZZZZ... ssphtlst ZZZZZ... " The head comes up from under a red blanket at a line station. A "mechanic" under the blanket on a recliner wakes up enough to reply to somebody's comment about overtime policy.... "They effed me too". zzzz...

The "mechanic" has been on duty for less than two hours. Done for the night, and the check card says 6.5 hours.
The only reason he has a job at our airline is because the TWU saved his sorry backside time and time again. You know him/her. Every station has them. Of course I refer to the example at my line station. This individual has no idea how to fill out the E58 section of his check card, or at least never does - and wants a pay raise.

He/she is the REASON you and I can't get a pay increase, and at a time the industry can't seem to attract recalls to fill vacancies caused by attrition. That the company hides behind the collective bargaining process to keep wages down longer than the market would tolerate is a different topic.

It's time to throw the couch and recliner out the door along with the garbage holding you back.

You and I have no friends. You might as well jettison hope the TWU is going to help you. Help yourself. "NOW"!

So, lets get this straight - you're sure that a small percentage of un-inspired AMTs around the system are the reason the company hasn't settled our contract. You are under the assumption, that if you bust your hump every day, that some benevolent management type is going to take notice and reward you. I am laughing as I am thinking about this.

I agree with Bob on this issue. Take care of your problems in house. The crew chief can see to it fairly easy.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Do You?

This is a very simple question that requires a serious answer. But before you mentally search for potential replies allow me to specify the realm of this question. As AMTs what we do and do not do in our every day duties tells a lot about who we are, and in turn reflects on our craft as a whole.
Do you feel that you are always trying to raise the standards by which we hold our profession to? This is something that every AMT should view as a way of advancing our craft. By adhering to correct maintenance manual references and using standard practices when called upon is one way of elevating these standards. Do you?

When working on an aircraft, whether it is on the ramp or in a hangar, do you ensure the work area is clean when you are finished? Do you leave safety wire, old hardware, rags, etc. lying on the ground assuming that someone will clean up after you? Do you leave an oil bowser empty after using it, or do you fill it when you are done? How about replacing work stands and ladders back to where they should be stored after you are done with them? Do you?

Are you concerned about the image the public has of our craft as it is portrayed through television, movies and news stories? Do you feel this image is positive or negative? If you feel it is negative how do you present yourself to coworkers and the public? Are you a slob? Do you wear your shirt hanging out, dirty sneakers, discolored pants and shirt, hair uncombed and unshaven? Do you?

When finished with a job assignment do you ask fellow AMTs if they need assistance or do you go and sit down somewhere? When asked for your opinion on a specific problem and how to repair a discrepancy do you make an effort to help or do you just point to the M.M.? Do you view yourself as part of a team of professionals within your work group or an individual only concerned with your work load? Do you offer guidance to new hires who ask for it? Do you?

If an aircraft is parked in a hangar and you see it is not properly grounded do you walk past the aircraft or do you make an attempt to ground the aircraft? If an AMT is working unsafe do you remind them they are doing so and that they should always work safe? Do you allow yourself to be pressured by management, or an aircraft owner, to do something without the proper equipment or correct manpower to accomplish a specific task? Do you?

I ask the question of “Do you?” in order to remind ourselves of the reasons why we became AMTs. By asking ourselves these questions we continuously look at how we perform our responsibilities in providing safe, airworthy aircraft and how we present ourselves to our coworkers and the public. By possessing knowledge, skill and integrity in every facet of our job we ensure the future for our craft and profession. We have inherited a proud craft by those who came before us who asked themselves these questions. Their positive answers enabled us to become stewards of a highly skilled and respected profession. It is our responsibility to answer as these AMTs did so those coming after us can continue the tradition of professionalism and pride that our craft is known for.


What do you think? Let me know if you agree or disagree at kenmactiernan@yahoo.com

 

[odie01]

So, lets get this straight - you're sure that a small percentage of un-inspired AMTs around the system are the reason the company hasn't settled our contract. You are under the assumption, that if you bust your hump every day, that some benevolent management type is going to take notice and reward you. I am laughing as I am thinking about this.

I agree with Bob on this issue. Take care of your problems in house. The crew chief can see to it fairly easy.

I don't agree with Bob on this issue.

How do you take care of problems in house, when the union will not do anything about the PROBLEM. It's not the crew chief's responsibility to discipline the mechanic, the union should be involved, and if that doesn't work, the last resort is management. As far as a small percentage of un-inspired AMT's, their are a small percentage on every crew, and that equals a big percentage throughout the system. I just want accountability in our union, once we attain that, then we have the power. It's not going to happen with the twu !!! The international/company is holding us back, I know it, you know it, Bob know's it. The question is, when do we do something about it?

 

[Tex-Mech]

I don't agree with Bob on this issue.

How do you take care of problems in house, when the union will not do anything about the PROBLEM. It's not the crew chief's responsibility to discipline the mechanic, the union should be involved, and if that doesn't work, the last resort is management. As far as a small percentage of un-inspired AMT's, their are a small percentage on every crew, and that equals a big percentage throughout the system. I just want accountability in our union, once we attain that, then we have the power. It's not going to happen with the twu !!! The international/company is holding us back, I know it, you know it, Bob know's it. The question is, when do we do something about it?

You are kidding...You're blaming the union for not disciplining the mechanics who are slugs. How do you propose doing this when nobody has any respect for the union? I've witnessed many pro-active shop stewards and others try to talk to a mechanic and be told what they could do with themselves. The crew chiefs have the power to make a slugs life miserable till they get the message, and that is where the rest of the crew and the local union need to back that crew chief.

Since the company usually screws up every investigation they do, the union has no choice in representing the slugs. There is a fine line that all unions must walk between representing a slug or being sued by a slug for not representing them.

 

[Vortilon]

Odie, Tex is right. The crew chief does have the power to assign the individuals in question. Then if the task is incomplete within a reasonable time frame... well then, said individual will have some explaining to do - to management. Like Tex said, the whole crew needs to be on board. Don't bail this individual out all the time, make him/her finish their assigned task on their own. It's simple peer pressure.

I have seen it work before. The individuals did not turn into a golden wrench candidates; however, they finished their work, and even made sure everybody else was good before they went on to study the AMM and GPM.

 

[cheers]

In my short time with the airlines I have learned to be suspicious of comments made by others against others (pot calling the kettle black syndrome). Everyone jumps on Vortilon cape and helps rattle his sabre, In the meantime he is probably making his comments from his laptop at work while he is shoveling galley food down his throat, while there are others handling gate calls and doing what other little tasks that are required at a class 2 during 1st or 2nd shift.
Vortilon probably has the ability to bid midnights and help straighten this individual out but rather spew his babble on here so he can pretend he's something. My guess he is an overwieght, +20 seniority, knows everything that doesn't pertain to fixing aircraft, whines when he get's Friday/Saturday instead of Sat/Sun, wife runs his life until he's at work and hasn't worked on a aircraft in 10yrs.
Just a guess.
Vortilon police your own bad habits, try to live what you preach and leave it to the men to care of the slackers.

 

[cheers]

Sorry meant PhattSappy not Volitron.
I agree with Volitron

 

[odie01]

Odie, Tex is right. The crew chief does have the power to assign the individuals in question. Then if the task is incomplete within a reasonable time frame... well then, said individual will have some explaining to do - to management. Like Tex said, the whole crew needs to be on board. Don't bail this individual out all the time, make him/her finish their assigned task on their own. It's simple peer pressure.

I have seen it work before. The individuals did not turn into a golden wrench candidates; however, they finished their work, and even made sure everybody else was good before they went on to study the AMM and GPM.

Yea, "V" he has a good point also. I just don't like management involved in any of our business. If the crew chief can get it done, great, if not, the union should council the slug, and if that doesn't work, out to dry with mgmt. as the last link in the chain of command.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Odie, Tex is right. The crew chief does have the power to assign the individuals in question. Then if the task is incomplete within a reasonable time frame... well then, said individual will have some explaining to do - to management. Like Tex said, the whole crew needs to be on board. Don't bail this individual out all the time, make him/her finish their assigned task on their own. It's simple peer pressure.

I have seen it work before. The individuals did not turn into a golden wrench candidates; however, they finished their work, and even made sure everybody else was good before they went on to study the AMM and GPM.

At another union shop years ago, the equivalent of the TWU's executive board would regularly have meetings with the slugs (as another put it) and explain to them the entire premise of their pay was based upon the company's ability to turn a profit. While the union was there to assist them in matters re: seniority, unfairness by management, undue terminations, etc, they were not there to make excuses as to why the individual couldn't or wouldn't do their job making others carry their load.

The TWU, by contrast, wants to keep the slugs as they pay dues the same as those who work - it's immaterial to them whether anything gets done or not as the International profits regardless and they know the company will hire more dues payers to make up whatever shortfall there is with respect to getting the job done.

Not only does this so-called "union" (the TWU) have it's priorities mixed up but American's (mis)management is complicit also in that they refuse (I lean towards unable) to run the place as a business designed to make money because doing so would endanger friendships and empires.

 

[odie01]

At another union shop years ago, the equivalent of the TWU's executive board would regularly have meetings with the slugs (as another put it) and explain to them the entire premise of their pay was based upon the company's ability to turn a profit. While the union was there to assist them in matters re: seniority, unfairness by management, undue terminations, etc, they were not there to make excuses as to why the individual couldn't or wouldn't do their job making others carry their load.

The TWU, by contrast, wants to keep the slugs as they pay dues the same as those who work - it's immaterial to them whether anything gets done or not as the International profits regardless and they know the company will hire more dues payers to make up whatever shortfall there is with respect to getting the job done.

Not only does this so-called "union" (the TWU) have it's priorities mixed up but American's (mis)management is complicit also in that they refuse (I lean towards unable) to run the place as a business designed to make money because doing so would endanger friendships and empires.

YOU ARE CORRECT SIR !!!ACCOUNTABILITY from the top down=respect, unionism, better working enviorment. This is not going to happen with the twu

 

[Tex-Mech]

The TWU, by contrast, wants to keep the slugs as they pay dues the same as those who work - it's immaterial to them whether anything gets done or not as the International profits regardless and they know the company will hire more dues payers to make up whatever shortfall there is with respect to getting the job done.

I don't see the defending slugs or selling out of grievances to defend them as much as it used to be. What I see now is very questionable decisions on who management hired, and managements inability to use the probation period as it was designed. You know to weed out those who just don't make the cut. Along those lines, over the past 20 or so years our starting salaries and benefits haven't exactly attracted the best of the best.

I also see a lack of supervisors coming off the floor due to management has made the supervisors position a downgrade. Not that I am for anyone to go into management, but we used to have management that knew the guys, turned a blind eye to some peer pressure, and generally stayed out of the crew chiefs way. If one of the slugs whined to management 15-20 years ago, he would be laughed at. Today they file a rule 32 complaint for him.

These new supervisors also are clueless on how to progressively discipline someone. This in turn forces the union to defend someone who years ago would be out the door.

 

[787nightmare]

I don't see the defending slugs or selling out of grievances to defend them as much as it used to be. What I see now is very questionable decisions on who management hired, and managements inability to use the probation period as it was designed. You know to weed out those who just don't make the cut. Along those lines, over the past 20 or so years our starting salaries and benefits haven't exactly attracted the best of the best.

I also see a lack of supervisors coming off the floor due to management has made the supervisors position a downgrade. Not that I am for anyone to go into management, but we used to have management that knew the guys, turned a blind eye to some peer pressure, and generally stayed out of the crew chiefs way. If one of the slugs whined to management 15-20 years ago, he would be laughed at. Today they file a rule 32 complaint for him.

These new supervisors also are clueless on how to progressively discipline someone. This in turn forces the union to defend someone who years ago would be out the door.

Some good dialogue going on here. When I worked as a Sch in TULE, the Supv used to tell me, "hell, if I did say anything to them, I'LL be the one called into HR!". I've always been of the mind, I never want to be known as a slug in my crew. I work with guys at Boeing that'll just wander around with there damn hands in there pockets all shift long, rather than moazy over and try to jump in and help-even if just lubing the damn fasteners with anti-sieze for us while we're installing/tightening. Just amazes & frustrates me...I don't get it.

Peer pressure can work. The again, you got people that's just there to soak up a check. And those people need to be jettisoned! REMOVE and REPLACE with someone that WANTS to work! And THAT...is fricken managements job!(I heard the phrase "lame ass Supv plenty in TULE) To compile enough "goods" on an individual, then take action with him in HR. I don't know all the answers, but it's straight up BS for a company & other emp to have to put up with crap like this.
It's the NUMBER ONE strike against organized labor with folks. Don't get me wrong, I know where we'd be without a contract in place.
But it's nothing more than a "necessary evil".

 

[Kev3188]

At another union shop years ago, the equivalent of the TWU's executive board would regularly have meetings with the slugs (as another put it) and explain to them the entire premise of their pay was based upon the company's ability to turn a profit. While the union was there to assist them in matters re: seniority, unfairness by management, undue terminations, etc, they were not there to make excuses as to why the individual couldn't or wouldn't do their job making others carry their load.

The TWU, by contrast, wants to keep the slugs as they pay dues the same as those who work - it's immaterial to them whether anything gets done or not as the International profits regardless and they know the company will hire more dues payers to make up whatever shortfall there is with respect to getting the job done.

Not only does this so-called "union" (the TWU) have it's priorities mixed up but American's (mis)management is complicit also in that they refuse (I lean towards unable) to run the place as a business designed to make money because doing so would endanger friendships and empires.

I don't see the defending slugs or selling out of grievances to defend them as much as it used to be. What I see now is very questionable decisions on who management hired, and managements inability to use the probation period as it was designed. You know to weed out those who just don't make the cut. Along those lines, over the past 20 or so years our starting salaries and benefits haven't exactly attracted the best of the best.

I also see a lack of supervisors coming off the floor due to management has made the supervisors position a downgrade. Not that I am for anyone to go into management, but we used to have management that knew the guys, turned a blind eye to some peer pressure, and generally stayed out of the crew chiefs way. If one of the slugs whined to management 15-20 years ago, he would be laughed at. Today they file a rule 32 complaint for him.

These new supervisors also are clueless on how to progressively discipline someone. This in turn forces the union to defend someone who years ago would be out the door.

You both bring up valid points, and both posts point to where things have gone wrong.

Unions are content to get another dues paying member in place, and mgmt. has often been content with settling for the "right now" candidate for a position, rather that holding out for the "right" candidate. The downward pressure on wages, etc. has also lowered the bar of people seeking this jobs, and it becomes a positive feedback loop...

 

[Bob Owens]

11k for property taxes..Man that hurts. Well I am sure you know that 36 an hr you made in 2003 was a result of our NW AMFA 2001 contract right? It wasn't anything the TWU did I can assure you of that. I talked to the guys here at FX and they didnt get a raise for 3 years until we got that contract at NW. So what was the thanks we got? Yeah guys furloughed from other airlines scabbed our jobs as well as a few losers from our own ranks. After that you at AA as well as most of the other mechanics who saw there wages rise after 2001 saw an equal drop in their pay after 2005 thanks to NW and the scabs busting AMFA. Thankfully a few companies kept the pay up like UPS, SWA and FX. I wish you guys the best but like I have said in the past sometimes we mechanics are our own worst enemy.

I'm well aware of the contributions and appreciate the sacrifices you guys made for the profession. I find it discouraging that many of my peers dont see what happened at NWA for what it was, Corporate terrorists going to extremes,with the assistance of the labor movement, trying to make an example out of a union and its members that dared to stand up against BS concessions. Spartacus would have been slain on the spot if the other slaves were like most of todays union leaders. Jim Morrison in his drunken stupor still saw it clearly when he said "You’re all a bunch of f*****g slaves”. Or another one of my favoritse Jim Larkin,"The great appear great because we are on our knees: Let us rise".

Many fail to realize that the those on the labor side who cooperated are getting what they deserve, ending up at Delta with no union. In all fairness its the workers who followed the leadership (or lack therof) their cooperative unions that are paying the bulk of the price, the unions are just losing the dues. When will the labor movement realize They will not hesitate to kick you with the boots you licked.

I still maintain that back in 2003 the unions should have gotten together and said "if a court makes and end run around the RLA and imposese any concessions on any union we are all going out".