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You should be thanking that worthless union of yours. USAPA brought this into the public domain by haveing that USA Today add printed. Did they think that
Tempe would just go OK your right lets do it your way.

Well, I wish it had never reached the public, but I place the blame with the company. They started this when someone got the bright idea to use the training dept. as discipline. The fuel school was the first time I'd seen that done here. It's gone down hill from there since the management team took the "beat the mule" attitude. It is management's job to lead. They have had all the tool they need to solve this. Remember 2008? We were at the top of the heap in numbers despite having the same contracts we have today. What's the difference.

Wake up.
 
Here are some comments on another forum from pilots and mechanics that don't work for US Airways.....

"The sad thing is that on this issue the west pilots should be backing the east pilots 100 percent."


"I don't think your company has any evidence at all. I think they are hoping to convince a court that skewed statistics are evidence. Conversely, there's plenty of actual evidence of your company pressuring pilots to fly aircraft that the PIC believes to be unsafe. The real hurt to this industry will come from folks like you who aren't BACKING your fellow airman. The fact that you westies can't put aside your disdain for the easties in order to stand tall against managerial abuse is truly sad. "


"People have a short memory. The east pilots have gotten the crap beat out of them ever since 9/11. If I'm not mistaken most will retire soon, so why not burn the place down. If I had five years or less left and had my pension stollen, pay slashed, and so on all in the name of free market capitalism I'd do my part. Labor is getting its arse kicked, and many are asking for the kicking. I believe the east pilots have had enough."



And last but most importantly.........


"The judiciary can "pressure", just as the Chief Pilot's office can. That's reality. Just ask the APA, or United ALPA what judiciary decisions can do.

When did we get to the point that if an employee group follows their contract and refuses to violate the law (ie, violates no company rule nor any law), they are brought to court and accused of doing wrong, a 'work to rule' campaign?

If you refuse to fly open time - that's a personal choice.
If you call in sick when you're sick - that's the law.
If you write up MX items when you discover them - that's the law.
If you call in fatigued when you feel too tired to continue - that's the law.

The only reason management can go to the courts and say 'look at the data, there's a job action going on" is because some pilots routinely break the law and their contract with the company. Yep, I said it.

- Pilots fly sick - they need the $, they determine they're 'not that sick', they're not contagious, etc.
- Pilots discover MX items, but make a decision that 'this item isn't going to compromise the safety of flight', so I'll wait to write it up till I get to a MX base, or till I'm turning over the aircraft to another crew.
- Pilots fly fatigued regularly - sleeping on the flight deck is currently illegal, remember?

And since when did refusing to volunteer to work overtime become something that is actionable in the courts?

If there are USAPA pilots who are calling in sick when they are not, US Airways has the ability to send them to a doctor of US Airway's choosing if they question the authenticity of the assessment.

If there are USAPA pilots writing up items that aren't broken, then simply looking over the MX logs will show this. Are USPA East pilots accused of flying MX items to outstations before writing them up, or breaking items on purpose?

If a pilot does not properly prepare themselves for duty, resulting in a fatigue call, then US Airways has a policy to deal with this. Is USAPA as a union responsible for fatiguing pilots?

To those who are championing the cause of US Airways management - do you have evidence that USPA, as a union, is coercing pilots to use the law to purposefully impede the ability of US Airways to operate as a business? If not, why not at least be neutral, or, heaven forbid, support your fellow pilots?

The precedence here to our profession is more important than the division over a seniority list at US Airways. "


Wow! PM me that forum, as it seems there is intelligent life there.
 
Here are some comments on another forum from pilots and mechanics that don't work for US Airways.....

"The sad thing is that on this issue the west pilots should be backing the east pilots 100 percent."


"I don't think your company has any evidence at all. I think they are hoping to convince a court that skewed statistics are evidence. Conversely, there's plenty of actual evidence of your company pressuring pilots to fly aircraft that the PIC believes to be unsafe. The real hurt to this industry will come from folks like you who aren't BACKING your fellow airman. The fact that you westies can't put aside your disdain for the easties in order to stand tall against managerial abuse is truly sad. "


"People have a short memory. The east pilots have gotten the crap beat out of them ever since 9/11. If I'm not mistaken most will retire soon, so why not burn the place down. If I had five years or less left and had my pension stollen, pay slashed, and so on all in the name of free market capitalism I'd do my part. Labor is getting its arse kicked, and many are asking for the kicking. I believe the east pilots have had enough."



And last but most importantly.........


"The judiciary can "pressure", just as the Chief Pilot's office can. That's reality. Just ask the APA, or United ALPA what judiciary decisions can do.

When did we get to the point that if an employee group follows their contract and refuses to violate the law (ie, violates no company rule nor any law), they are brought to court and accused of doing wrong, a 'work to rule' campaign?

If you refuse to fly open time - that's a personal choice.
If you call in sick when you're sick - that's the law.
If you write up MX items when you discover them - that's the law.
If you call in fatigued when you feel too tired to continue - that's the law.

The only reason management can go to the courts and say 'look at the data, there's a job action going on" is because some pilots routinely break the law and their contract with the company. Yep, I said it.

- Pilots fly sick - they need the $, they determine they're 'not that sick', they're not contagious, etc.
- Pilots discover MX items, but make a decision that 'this item isn't going to compromise the safety of flight', so I'll wait to write it up till I get to a MX base, or till I'm turning over the aircraft to another crew.
- Pilots fly fatigued regularly - sleeping on the flight deck is currently illegal, remember?

And since when did refusing to volunteer to work overtime become something that is actionable in the courts?

If there are USAPA pilots who are calling in sick when they are not, US Airways has the ability to send them to a doctor of US Airway's choosing if they question the authenticity of the assessment.

If there are USAPA pilots writing up items that aren't broken, then simply looking over the MX logs will show this. Are USPA East pilots accused of flying MX items to outstations before writing them up, or breaking items on purpose?

If a pilot does not properly prepare themselves for duty, resulting in a fatigue call, then US Airways has a policy to deal with this. Is USAPA as a union responsible for fatiguing pilots?

To those who are championing the cause of US Airways management - do you have evidence that USPA, as a union, is coercing pilots to use the law to purposefully impede the ability of US Airways to operate as a business? If not, why not at least be neutral, or, heaven forbid, support your fellow pilots?

The precedence here to our profession is more important than the division over a seniority list at US Airways. "
You're kidding, right? You're using other easties to make an argument?

Really?

I guess I'll have to start cherry-picking posts too.

Man your post was stupid.
 
Wow! PM me that forum, as it seems there is intelligent life there.
Highly opinionated thought just like here. Perhaps slightly more coherent than some on this board, at least from the sampling provided.

Of course those opinions still don't seem to comprehend what is potentially transpiring in the courts. The company is claiming, with mountains of evidence to substantiate the claim, that a violation of the status quo has occurred under USAPA's watch. It doesn't matter if pilots used to do more than the minimum required and have now decided to strictly follow procedures as that is just as much a violation of the status quo condition as any other more egregious activity. It doesn't matter how justified a pilot feels in calling in sick or fatigued now, if the statistical averages don't go back to where they were, USAPA will have to answer to the courts for their inability to maintain the status quo. USAPA has a mandated duty to maintain that status and a failure to fulfill their duty will result in more hardships on the east.

The east pilots (few, some, all) have painted themselves into a corner and they will get paint on their shoes now that there is no other way out. Once the court rules, the question will be will the pilots responsible take their medicine and stop their illegal conduct or will they seek to drag down every east pilot by jeopardizing their paychecks and their careers? Scorched earth has been a predominate theme of the east hardliners so I suspect they will willingly let their less zealous brethren suffer for their narcissism. Time will tell, but unlike the NIC process, this one will proceed much faster and the pain could be much more acute. Hmm, 2011 is still shaping up to be a very bad year for USAPA.
 
You're kidding, right? You're using other easties to make an argument?

Really?

I guess I'll have to start cherry-picking posts too.

Man your post was stupid.


Not Easties......other Major airline employees.....Delta, American, United.....you know...those other outfits.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/61320-us-airways-files-tro-4.html
 
Remember 2008? We were at the top of the heap in numbers despite having the same contracts we have today. What's the difference.

Let's see...the difference is:

- three more years on the same contract - what happened to that 90-day contract the professional negotiator was going to produce?
- three more years of no solution to the seniority dispute - what happened to the assurances that "seniority is just like crew meals"?
- three more years of assessments/legal fees/etc with what to show for it?

In 2008 most easties, judging by posts here, were confident that the solutions to all their problems were just around the corner. DOH was going to be a slam dunk, USAPA was going to get an industry leading (or at least industry standard) contract any day, the sun would shine on the East and all would be right with their world. Now DOH seems to be a fading dream with at best years of being in court before it happens, an industry contract is nowhere in sight, none of the manna USAPA promised has occurred yet. It's no wonder the easties are feeling frustrated...

Jim
 
Let's see...the difference is:

- three more years on the same contract - what happened to that 90-day contract the professional negotiator was going to produce?
- three more years of no solution to the seniority dispute - what happened to the assurances that "seniority is just like crew meals"?
- three more years of assessments/legal fees/etc with what to show for it?

In 2008 most easties, judging by posts here, were confident that the solutions to all their problems were just around the corner. DOH was going to be a slam dunk, USAPA was going to get an industry leading (or at least industry standard) contract any day, the sun would shine on the East and all would be right with their world. Now DOH seems to be a fading dream with at best years of being in court before it happens, an industry contract is nowhere in sight, none of the manna USAPA promised has occurred yet. It's no wonder the easties are feeling frustrated...

Jim

When did you last operate an airplane here?
 
No you should be blaming the idiots in Tempe who are responsible for all. As much as I hate to say it you folks are your own worst enemy & Tempe is enjoying every minute of it.

Typical east response. It's the companies fault. When will you USAPA people take responsibility for your own actions?
 
Not Easties......other Major airline employees.....Delta, American, United.....you know...those other outfits.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/61320-us-airways-files-tro-4.html

Ok. Fair enough.

I'll start cherry-picking OAL forums.

Wait a minute, I don't even need to leave this form. Don't we have a UAL and DAL guy around here I can cite?
 
Let's see...the difference is:

- three more years on the same contract - what happened to that 90-day contract the professional negotiator was going to produce?
- three more years of no solution to the seniority dispute - what happened to the assurances that "seniority is just like crew meals"?
- three more years of assessments/legal fees/etc with what to show for it?

In 2008 most easties, judging by posts here, were confident that the solutions to all their problems were just around the corner. DOH was going to be a slam dunk, USAPA was going to get an industry leading (or at least industry standard) contract any day, the sun would shine on the East and all would be right with their world. Now DOH seems to be a fading dream with at best years of being in court before it happens, an industry contract is nowhere in sight, none of the manna USAPA promised has occurred yet. It's no wonder the easties are feeling frustrated...

Jim
Oh no you didn't! AGAIN!

Too much too fast for the east guys Jim.
 
You should be thanking that worthless union of yours. USAPA brought this into the public domain by haveing that USA Today add printed. Did they think that
Tempe would just go OK your right lets do it your way.
Actually the USAPS tried to go public in 08. They were planning to call in sick, but their union stopped them because the sandcastle had caught wind of it and had placed pilots in strategic locations, or something to that affect.
 
Union thuggery, so typical. Why not dump the unions and negotiate like adults. You would rather play games, all the while hiding behind the union. Unbelievable. And yes, we all know you're playing games with taxi times, maintenance, etc. Then to have the audacity to say US runs an unsafe airline. The only thing unsafe is unfit to fly babies in the flight deck.
 

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