Crew Schedule Frustrations
- Thread starter s80dude
- Start date
AAStew said:
Read your contract. The 12 hour rest period does not have exceptions to it. See Article 10, Section E, Paragraph 2.a--"A twelve (12) hour rest period free of all duty shall be given after the completion of a trip sequence." this is on Page 510 of the CBA. Couple this with Article 10, Section F, Paragraph 12--Contact with Company: Rest Periods/Duty-Free Periods/Vacation."No reserve flight attendant shall be required to keep the Company advised of his/her whereabouts during the off-duty periods as provided for herein, or during the period while on scheduled vacation." This is on Page 513 of the CBA.
Note: This does not apply if you only sat Ready Reserve today.
Refer any scheduler to these pages and quotes any time they try to say differently.
12 hours is the minimum. There are extensions for long-range flying..
Non-stop leg GT (greater than) 7--MR (minimum rest break) 14.5 hours.
If trip sequence contains long-range flying in excess of 12 hours, MR is 36 hours.
If sequence contains extended long-range flying in excess of 14.5 hours, MR is 48 hours.
There is nothing that says "unless you call 5 minutes late." The truth is you don't have to call at all. 15 minutes after the door opens on the last leg, turn your phone off. Scheduling can call all they want, you do not have to answer the phone. However, at the end of your rest period, you should call Scheduling immediately to ask if they have anything for you. I usually call about 30 minutes before the end of the rest period because they only have to give you a 1 hour callout at the end of a 12 hour rest break.
Now, in defense of scheduling, don't try to play the game that you did not receive the call during a time when you are "on duty." If they call you within 15 minutes of the end of a sequence, they've got you--whether or not you left your phone turned off until you reached the employee parking lot. You were supposed to maintain contact with Scheduling until 15 minutes past the end of your sequence. People, we all need to grow up. Reassignment is a sometime "benefit" of the job. The fact that I don't want to be reassigned, or I have a hot date, or I'm tired does not enter into the equation. If we expect Crew Scheduling to respect the CBA, we need to also.
Garfield1966
Veteran
Close to 20 years with AA and not a single letter in my file. I have no interest in going to the pilot side. I enjoy my job and enjoy the people I work with.
I have also stated too many times to recall that I do not "hate" any work group. I do have a huge problem with individuals in ANY work group that abuse company policies and screw over their fellow employees.
I have also stated too many times to recall that I do not "hate" any work group. I do have a huge problem with individuals in ANY work group that abuse company policies and screw over their fellow employees.
operaations
Veteran
- Jul 31, 2003
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operaations
Veteran
- Jul 31, 2003
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Bottom line is we can not make everyone happy. Some people would appreciate the call the night before. Some dont. It is a no win situaion. I personally cross my fingers I have not disturbed anyone and that my decisiion on when to call is helpfull.operaations said:
Jim please tell me the page in the contract that states we should make every attempt not to camm between 2300-0600. Seriously i would like to show that to the mid night shift and day shift so they do not bit== me out for not attempting and running to our supervisor for not doing our job.
operaations said:
For Domestic, see page 147 at the bottom. Article 10, Section F, Paragraph 11.
For International, see page 513 at the very top. Article 10, Section F, Paragraph 12.
The title and wording of both paragraphs is identical. "The Company will use its best efforts to avoid contacting a reserve Flight Attendant on a legal rest period between the hours of 2300 and 0600."
Garfield1966 said:
Garfield, this is a perfect example of the company trying to get around the contract. If you were trained this way, it's too bad. The contract says that a flight attendant gets (11 hours for line or 12 hours for reserve) minimum rest period at home base station following an on-duty period. Article 7, Section L, Paragraph 3.
Page 77 (this is for domestic, but I'm sure there is a comparable paragraph in the International section of the contract). The paragraphs I quoted above say, in addition to the "best efforts" sentence that "no Reserve flight attendant shall be required to keep the Company advised of his/her whereabouts during the off-duty periods as provided herein..."
What that means is that even if the flight attendant has not requested uninterrupted rest, the f/a does not have to answer the phone if you call during a legal rest break. But, as you also stated, the flight attendant must then be prepared for a short callout at the end of the rest break.
P.S. About the calling between wheels down and end of debrief to ask for uninterrupted rest...
It is company policy that we are not supposed to use our cell phones while there are passengers on the a/c. Between wheels down and an actual empty a/c is seldom less than 30 minutes even at STL. Debrief is 15 minutes past the door opening. Unload a full a/c--ain't gonna happen (usually) in 15 minutes.
jimntx said:
Jim thats a good point. I think alot of f/a's think that they still get the 2 hour call out at the end of their break.
Garfield,
The way I understand it, you have to be within two hour callout of one of the airports you serve (DCA, JFK, LAX etc..) If you gave this f/a a missed trip because she wasn't able to make it to BWI, she should grieve this. Or mayb e next time she should just accept the assignment then call in sick and take family leave. We can work the system very well as you know, but if you would work with us, we would do likewise.
The way I understand it, you have to be within two hour callout of one of the airports you serve (DCA, JFK, LAX etc..) If you gave this f/a a missed trip because she wasn't able to make it to BWI, she should grieve this. Or mayb e next time she should just accept the assignment then call in sick and take family leave. We can work the system very well as you know, but if you would work with us, we would do likewise.
jimntx said:
Let me tell you, from an outsider's perspective, the simple fact that there are at least 513 pages to the contract for a relatively non-complex job is pure madness. Jeezuz H Christ. :blink:
LaBradford22 said:
Agree 100%
Similarly, I remember reading somewhere a couple years ago a comparison of the AA and WN pilot scope clauses; at WN, it's a short paragraph. At AA, it runs on and on.
Everyone wants to talk about KISS, but very few actually keep it simple. B)
Garfield1966
Veteran
[Hmmm. Unless someone moved BWI it is still part of the DCA base, which means she had 2 hours to make it and no basis on which to grieve the TM.
Why you would want to cal in sick for a seq that you are contractually legal and obligated to fly when you are not actually sick is beyond me. The result of that is that I will go down to the next reserve on my list (if I have one) and that FA will be faced with the same prospect. When or if I run out of either reserves or time I will reassign someone who thought they were terminating so that they could go home and see their wife, husband, children, grand parents or just go home and veg after a 3 day sequence but since you just called in sick (on a seq that you were legal for) that unfortunate FA who I reassign will not be able to go home. I will find someone to cover the sequence. It is my job. It is just a matter of who it is. I do not like to reassign someone. No one does. It involves extra work for us. We do not pick on individual FA’s. We find the reserve or most junior who is qualified and tag, you’re it.
Jim,
Sorry, I did not clarify between how I was trained and what I have been able to verify in the contract. You are correct about how the 12 hour rest works.
Why you would want to cal in sick for a seq that you are contractually legal and obligated to fly when you are not actually sick is beyond me. The result of that is that I will go down to the next reserve on my list (if I have one) and that FA will be faced with the same prospect. When or if I run out of either reserves or time I will reassign someone who thought they were terminating so that they could go home and see their wife, husband, children, grand parents or just go home and veg after a 3 day sequence but since you just called in sick (on a seq that you were legal for) that unfortunate FA who I reassign will not be able to go home. I will find someone to cover the sequence. It is my job. It is just a matter of who it is. I do not like to reassign someone. No one does. It involves extra work for us. We do not pick on individual FA’s. We find the reserve or most junior who is qualified and tag, you’re it.
Jim,
Sorry, I did not clarify between how I was trained and what I have been able to verify in the contract. You are correct about how the 12 hour rest works.
- Thread Starter
- #27
The point of my posting this was that I was in the middle of a layover. It was not like I was at home or between reserve assignments. The comapny was aware of my sequence and that I was scheduled to leave at O'dark hundred the next morning. I see no reason why they could not have waited to contact me about the turn they were adding at the end of my sequence, until I was at the airport and on duty. Instead I get a wake up call at 11:30 pm.
S80dude, you are absolutely correct that it was impolite, at best, for the company to call in the middle of the night on a short layover. My response was to someone (AAStew, I think) who asked a question about reserve.
Problem with layovers is that from sign-in until debrief following last leg, we are "technically" on-duty and, therefore, must be available to the company. Someone in scheduling though should insist that a little common sense be used in the middle of the night. When someone is going to be at the airport in just a few hours, there is no need, other than a desire to disturb their rest to call them at a layover hotel.
Problem with layovers is that from sign-in until debrief following last leg, we are "technically" on-duty and, therefore, must be available to the company. Someone in scheduling though should insist that a little common sense be used in the middle of the night. When someone is going to be at the airport in just a few hours, there is no need, other than a desire to disturb their rest to call them at a layover hotel.
jimntx said:
Garfield,
I have not fully awaken yet, but what I was saying is, if you are based at a base that has more than one airport, you only have to be within 2 hours of one of them. If she lived south and west of Dulles which could be Culpepper, she would still be within the legal range of IAD but no way she could ever make it to BWI in 2 hours. That is why I am saying she should grieve it. I know this is in the contract as I made sure I looked it up last reserve month. My comment was if you are not willing to work with us according to our contract, we will do whatever is possible to protect ourselves.
If I get the chance I will send you the exact page and number of the contract. You are at the DCA desk? Maybe you should all get copies of the contract and memorize the section that concerns scheduling.
operaations
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- Jul 31, 2003
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s80 dude,s80dude said:
like i said i truly think the scheduler that woke you up had no intention of doing it to be rude. there are some who want to know ahead of time what they are doing with as much notice at hand. then there are others who are just fine with finding out at departure. I oersonally think your way is easier. but not everything works out that way. I have personally been yelled at cursed at and threatened for calling late at noght and also for calling right at dept when i knew last night. It is a no win situation. the person who i talk to in the morning says I waited till the last minute to screw them for my pleasure.
the person i called the night before says I did it to personally disturb their rest.
I realize it is a sensitive subject and can not please everyone. So the insults and cursing I do not take personally,
and for you AASTEW. You are wrong when it comes to reserve at a city that has multiple airports at one base. Have you forgotten that AA does not just use one airport to fly out of. If you are in MIA you need to be able to get to MIA and FLL with in two hours for a reserv assignment. If you are in DCA you have to be able to get to DCA IAD and BWI..and NYC includes EWR LGA and JFK. I am not stupid and I do realize it is probably impossible to live in an area that will put you with in two hours of every airport but we have to folloiw the contyract like it says. IF the union and or your supervisor takes your tm out because of that. I think that is great but do not harp or get angry or threaten the scheduler with calling of sick because he will not take you off a trip that you may not make.
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