FA Sick numbers

[operaations]

After reading my original post i decided to delete it. i am done venting and thanks AAstew for pointing out that it was not right to vent like i did. There honestly could be an underlying reason that we are not aware of

 

[AAStew]

Deleted by moderator at posters request.

 

[Skymess]

I have not heard anything about other airlines one way or the other. Given that it is human nature to take advantage when one can, I doubt it is different for the majority of airlines or companies over all.

Doug Brown and Laurie Curtis had not thing to do with this as far as I am aware.

L1011,
AVBL's will never get enough flying if the sick list clears at 1600 and AVBL's must be plotted by 1400. That's why AVBL is such a waste an we would like to see it go the way of that Vol Speaker joke of a program that we used to have.

As Mr. LAX said, the letter as from Brown and Curtis. I also got a letter from D. Carvatta apologizing for the high reserve rate but explaining that they thought the only way to cover the holidays was to inflate the list.

I am definitely not in favor of doing away with avbl.

AVBL, MU, SK Clearance, and RSV, are all things that need to be fixed.

AVBL should be open from the time bids awards are final until 12pm the day before the trip. Nonstop. None of this closing 2 nights before at 12am and opening at 5am to 12pm the day before departure. That's senseless. It's a free for all anyway, why get people more pissed by waking up at 5am and not getting it anyway. When scheduling drops the vm trips in open time the day before at 2am,3am, whatever am, if you get them you get them. If not, too bad. That's what happens with PVD drops between 8 and 10 am. If you get it, you get it. I don't see a difference. If you're on AVBL you're either too junior to hold a line or you're too picky to fly the crud you CAN hold so just face it that AVBL is a competition. I'd rather deal with the ability to get myself a trip than to be on reserve. Half f those people that scream for the end of AVBL are too stupid to realize that if it didn't exist they most likely wouldn't be holding the line they do (whether a good or bad line) and reserve would be more senior.

MU should have set times. When it closes, it closes. Calling MU people all day and night and up until 2 hours before the trip leaves guarantees that your reserves are going to get the shaft everyday. I don't agree with that. I also don't agree with people putting their name on the list day one to 30 of the month and holding up all the people who really need a trip because they have to wait while all the dead wood is called first. If you want a trip you should have to hisend your requests sometime the day before and only then should they call you. If you say, only widebody or only widebody turns,then they would only call for widebody or widebody turns. If you don't send any requests then they shouldn't have to call at all. When it's done at 6pm, it's done. Reserve time and too bad if you got nothing. The makeup country club needs to be disbanded. I'm not just saying that cause I'm junior too. I'm on a line more than I'm on reserve and I do get makeup every once in awhile and sometimes they call me right before the trip is leaving and I get mad that a reserve isn't being called. I put myself on MU to get a trip the day before. I don't want to be a quasi reserve on my line month. I know IDF FA's live under the gun like that and I think they only do it because they have so little quality flying these days. Regardless, it needs to be stopped.

RSV-too many changes need to be made to list. SK clearance time is high on my list.

 

[eolesen]

The only thing that really worked at TWA was a perect attendant bonus program. It was funded by the actual savings generated from a greatly reduced headcount need.

Nancy, people think that incentive programs like that work, but I'm not as convinced anymore...

AA had a perfect attendance program prior to 9/11. All it did was reward the people who were just as likely to show up to work with or without an incentive and were lucky enough not to get sick or have sick kids...

Lost time analysis was part of what we measured in my group when I was at AA, and I was firmly convinced there would be a large uptick once the program was canceled. It turned out that the bean counters were right for a change.... There were a few pockets here and there, but overall, for 90-95% of the non-management employees, there was no noticeable change in sick calls for the next two years.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm all in favor of rewarding people for doing their job. I had 15 years of perfect attendance when I left AA, and gladly accepted the few free passes I got for doing what was expected of me. But don't expect it to be cost justified thru lost time avoidance. It really doesn't matter much to the ones who view sick time as an entitlement to be used as unannounced personal time off with pay.

 

[operaations]

MU should have set times. When it closes, it closes. Calling MU people all day and night and up until 2 hours before the trip leaves guarantees that your reserves are going to get the shaft everyday. I don't agree with that. I also don't agree with people putting their name on the list day one to 30 of the month and holding up all the people who really need a trip because they have to wait while all the dead wood is called first. If you want a trip you should have to hisend your requests sometime the day before and only then should they call you. If you say, only widebody or only widebody turns,then they would only call for widebody or widebody turns. If you don't send any requests then they shouldn't have to call at all. When it's done at 6pm, it's done. Reserve time and too bad if you got nothing. The makeup country club needs to be disbanded. I'm not just saying that cause I'm junior too. I'm on a line more than I'm on reserve and I do get makeup every once in awhile and sometimes they call me right before the trip is leaving and I get mad that a reserve isn't being called. I put myself on MU to get a trip the day before. I don't want to be a quasi reserve on my line month. I know IDF FA's live under the gun like that and I think they only do it because they have so little quality flying these days. Regardless, it needs to be stopped.

RSV-too many changes need to be made to list. SK clearance time is high on my list.

Now I soo hope you are a person with the APFA who can take this to someone who can impliment it. I am in crew sched and agree 100% with everything you just wrote.

cheers

 

[kuro_kuma]

As I said in my other post, AVBL is what works for me. I think it can be better, but I'll do whatever I can to not make it disappear. Most f/a's use avbl as a back up, but that's the ONE bid I do every month, no other. Not like anyone cares, but I do it because as a commuter (not by choice) allows me to commute responsibly and take care of what I have to at home while flying a full schedule. I don't know why we can only plot until noon when we can be auto plotted at 2p? There can be a compromise. You have to clear sick by 2p, then avbl has until 3p to plot then after that the MU people can grab whatever's left. Couple that with the two suggestions I had before, which can save reserves and balance out the 2-3d & turns. As I said, then those on avbl who could originally fly a 2-3 day trip isn't stuck with legally only doing a turn because there was nothing by noon and we NOW have the ONE DO the next day, unable to fly into the following day's avbl days. Personally, there wouldn't be as much contact or hisends needed if we could either plot after sk trips drop or get auto plotted (ok sucks, but it happens anyway) and beable to fly into our avbl day the 2nd day if we have to go on MU (or not). Usually the only problem I have running into that is because I have no other way to get a sk trip unless I'm on makeup then by that time I can't look at anything else but the turns. Even if we limit it to avbl f/a's who are the only ones limited in this area would make a difference. I'm not sure why that was taken away since it only helped the operation even if it's only in this situation? We could do it before.

Also, I'm one that does short call makeup if I can't get anything (since I'm usually limited to a turn) and I'm 10 minutes from the airport so pretty much take whatever bone I'm called for even if it's a 5 am call. lol. I think after all the hisends are sent, let the list for that day drop then if those are willing to go on short call, then put yourself back on. Then the f/a is usually serious about it. But then again, if we could plot sick trips on avbl, then this may not be necessary either. One effects the other. Yea, avbl sucks now but it's scary that it's the best option for me at this point.

 

[Skymess]

Nancy, people think that incentive programs like that work, but I'm not as convinced anymore...

don't expect it to be cost justified thru lost time avoidance. It really doesn't matter much to the ones who view sick time as an entitlement to be used as unannounced personal time off with pay.

I agree that some people abuse sick time. The problem I see is that AA makes policies to punish anyone using their sick time which isn't right either. I know people who show up to work deathly ill beause they are in fear of calling in sick, they don't think they are sick enough to go to a doctor and don't want to spend 30 bucks on a copayment. They'd rather spend 5 bucks on a bottle of nyquil and hope they can sit home and beat their cold by just relaxing.

AA doesn't care. They don't take into account that it's not easy to get in to see your doctor during normal times, much less holiday periods. I called my doctor for a prescription refill today so I could get what I need now instead of paying off my deductible next week. He's gone until Jan 5th! Suppose I needed a doctor? You go to a clinic and you're never sure if it's clean, if they know what they are doing, or if they will fill out the family leave novel so you don't get in trouble. That's embarassing too. You give the doctor your family leave form and they question you like you're a screw up who the company must only be after because you call in sick too much. Havig to explain that we need a form filled out everytime we are sick so we don't get in trouble is a humiliating experience. AA's sick time policy is awful.

I never used to have to worry about sick time before I became purser. I used to have the flexibility to drop whatever I needed to if I felt a cold coming on or if I needed to move something around. Being purser for this company has forced me to use sick time I didn't want to use, when I wasn't even sick, because there was no other way to get out of my trip. You know there's a problem when you put 100 to 150 dollars on trips and you can't get rid of them. Having to do that really went against the grain with me because I am a firm believer in saving my sick time for when and if I might really need it and I got tired of paying to be purser for AA as well.

The IOR holiday sick caller falls into another category. I guess it's interesting that her HI10M shows this pattern and they haven't done anything. Guess they can't and, as usual, their threatening letters only effect the people who wouldn't dream of abusing their sick time.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Nancy, people think that incentive programs like that work, but I'm not as convinced anymore...

AA had a perfect attendance program prior to 9/11. All it did was reward the people who were just as likely to show up to work with or without an incentive and were lucky enough not to get sick or have sick kids...

Lost time analysis was part of what we measured in my group when I was at AA, and I was firmly convinced there would be a large uptick once the program was canceled. It turned out that the bean counters were right for a change.... There were a few pockets here and there, but overall, for 90-95% of the non-management employees, there was no noticeable change in sick calls for the next two years.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm all in favor of rewarding people for doing their job. I had 15 years of perfect attendance when I left AA, and gladly accepted the few free passes I got for doing what was expected of me. But don't expect it to be cost justified thru lost time avoidance. It really doesn't matter much to the ones who view sick time as an entitlement to be used as unannounced personal time off with pay.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ERIC,

You know what ?

I honestly believe that your doing your job, the way you did it, at AA, while you were there, in an Honorable/moral fashion, is commendable !!

BUT,

then, here comes AMR....kicking the SHET out of employees..pay/v/c, sk, ot, holidays etc. etc., All the While FULLY SUPPORTIVE of CARTY, and his $$$$ back up plan for management !

NO need, for you, OR AA to respond with...."We got RID of CARTY" !!

THAT retort, doesnt, and NEVER WILL , "Cut It"..................NEVER !

The DAMAGE is PERMANENTLY DONE, and a "majority of all kinds of employees"..then fight back the only way they can,...Which is by any means possible !

If the "good doobies" who will say..."well I UNDERSTAND ....B U T"....but meaning that they don't TRULY UNDERSTAND (like in ) "I understand that your pissed at AA, and you'll call in SK, but If you do, it hurts ME" .............Have to understand(If capable) that the "SK" call....."is NOTHING PERSONAL"

"Now if YOU, wan't to make it PERSONAL, then THAT becomes YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE" !!!!


It is what IT IS !!!!!!!!!!


My ol' granny....had an old expression, that went like this;................"You only get "1" chance, to make a GOOD IMPRESSION" !!

 

[kuro_kuma]

I know people who show up to work deathly ill beause they are in fear of calling in sick, they don't think they are sick enough to go to a doctor and don't want to spend 30 bucks on a copayment.

I've never had to call in sick for myself but fairly recently because of my dad, which is still very minimal due to how I work my schedule and I can avoid intermittent fmlas. Too bad sk isn't paid if it's a family member. I HATE talking to someone to put myself on the sick list. Can't that be automated too?? If I ever get sick or something happens during the holiday, I'm going to be dreading that call and hope the scheduler has mercy on me.

 

[Skymess]

Also, I'm one that does short call makeup if I can't get anything (since I'm usually limited to a turn) and I'm 10 minutes from the airport so pretty much take whatever bone I'm called for even if it's a 5 am call. lol. I think after all the hisends are sent, let the list for that day drop then if those are willing to go on short call, then put yourself back on. Then the f/a is usually serious about it. But then again, if we could plot sick trips on avbl, then this may not be necessary either. One effects the other. Yea, avbl sucks now but it's scary that it's the best option for me at this point.

I'm really not into the never ending MU list. I suppose if they DID change it that after evening MU clears the day before that only those people on short call would be called, it might change my mind. I don't know. I think if they do that then you should be obligated for whatever comes up and not have the ability to turn something down. Any hold up closer to the trip means reserves get called out that much later. So, if scheduling has to call 100 people on short call, or 200 people on MU as it is now, that is that much shorter call out the poor reserve gets to make it to the airport.

 

[kuro_kuma]

I'm really not into the never ending MU list. I suppose if they DID change it that after evening MU clears the day before that only those people on short call would be called, it might change my mind. I don't know. I think if they do that then you should be obligated for whatever comes up and not have the ability to turn something down. Any hold up closer to the trip means reserves get called out that much later. So, if scheduling has to call 100 people on short call, or 200 people on MU as it is now, that is that much shorter call out the poor reserve gets to make it to the airport.

Personally, I don't like to see someone put them on the MU list for days and days at one time. I do it for one day, the day before (and once in a while for two if I know I want to do to turns), and that's it. I've noticed when I put myself on short call makeup, which can only be done after 12 midnight (I wish we could do it sooner), I'm usually the ONLY one who does that. If I do, I'm pretty much ready to take anything unless it's a co-terminal airport and can't get there in time, but I usually indicate that. I think that can be an option since I think, for the most part, the person who's so desperate to practically sleep in their uniform will take whatever they're called to do. If anything it may only delay the calling out of a reserve by a few minutes if they don't take the trip. I think that would be rare since the f/a would have to place themselves on the MU list again for the next day (maybe after 7p when the remaining trip have been assigned to reserves?) and it wouldn't be like the block listing themselves on MU, which I see now where they're being called for every trip. For those who take the time to hisend, should pick the trips and not go through the whole list. I know it's seniority, but you can see what's going to drop from the sick list so the f/a should be responsible for putting in the request then go by seniority. That's what I do...I don't wait for cs to call me with what's available. It's so easy to take a few minutes out of the day to do a hisend.

 

[mjk]

Today's FA sick count: 1838

 

[eolesen]

The DAMAGE is PERMANENTLY DONE, and a "majority of all kinds of employees"..then fight back the only way they can,...Which is by any means possible !

You can try justifying sick time abuse however you want, but at the end of the day, it's still dishonesty.

If the "good doobies" who will say..."well I UNDERSTAND ....B U T"....but meaning that they don't TRULY UNDERSTAND (like in ) "I understand that your pissed at AA, and you'll call in SK, but If you do, it hurts ME" .............Have to understand(If capable) that the "SK" call....."is NOTHING PERSONAL"

"Now if YOU, wan't to make it PERSONAL, then THAT becomes YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE" !!!!

It is what IT IS !!!!!!!!!!

Call me old fashioned, but there are twelve simple words I try to live by: trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

It doesn't matter what my company has done to me, but if I can't represent those words with my actions, it's time for me to find another job.

Calling in sick just to get back at the company shows that my word can't be trusted, that I'm not loyal to the people on my crew, and that I'm not courteous to the manning crew chief or supv who now has to fill a hole in the manning.

Those guys didn't force the concessions on anyone --- they're living under them as well....

So, you can say it's not personal, but to me, lying says a lot about one's person.

My ol' granny....had an old expression, that went like this;................"You only get "1" chance, to make a GOOD IMPRESSION" !!

Mine had an expression too: Two wrongs don't make a right....

 

[L1011Ret]

You can try justifying sick time abuse however you want, but at the end of the day, it's still dishonesty.




Call me old fashioned, but there are twelve simple words I try to live by: trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

It doesn't matter what my company has done to me, but if I can't represent those words with my actions, it's time for me to find another job.

Calling in sick just to get back at the company shows that my word can't be trusted, that I'm not loyal to the people on my crew, and that I'm not courteous to the manning crew chief or supv who now has to fill a hole in the manning.

Those guys didn't force the concessions on anyone --- they're living under them as well....

So, you can say it's not personal, but to me, lying says a lot about one's person.




Mine had an expression too: Two wrongs don't make a right....

You are a real Boy Scout obviously. When I was a kid we took oaths to those twelve simple words and we took it seriously.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Well Eric, as I said (seriously), your actions ARE Commendable !!

What Carty, and AMR were about to do, was DISHONEST, and you and I know, If it had NOT been discovered, would NEVER had been mentioned by THEM !!!!

What Carty, and AMR did(with the help of little + company) was "TAKE BREAD OFF OF THE TABLE OF KIDS AND FAMILYS".........................."end quote" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was effected by CARTY/AMR, like thousands of others
I was not effected by PUP Bucks.

But at least the "PUP Bucks" was in the "pipeline", and everyone knew it was coming, BUT the SHET with CARTY/AMR/TWU/APA/APFA..........was, and ALWAYS will be....................Inexcusable !!!