FA Sick numbers

[SkyhighSteve]

The sick list is high because......If you hire children......then you will have employees that act like children.....and I am not talking about age.

Yes they can go on MU but by the time MU gets to them the senior folks have picked over the good stuff and all that is left is 3D carib or 3D multi leg domestic trips.

Up until a few years ago PVD's were limited, this is one of the things that the Union or someone wanted so they got it. As far as we are concerned, either AVBL needs to go away or the sick list need to clear before the plotting window for AVBL has ended.

I realize it is now the norm for companies to pay extra for people to work on the holidays but I just really do not get that entire concept. I took this job knowing it was open all day every day. I knew (because I was told upon hiring) that I could be expected to be at work at any time when my department was open. I remember nodding my head up and down when being asked if this was agreeable to me. So I guess I just do not understand the idea of paying someone extra money or incentives to come to work and do their job like they are expected to do and like they said they would do. If times are good and the company wants to give me a bonus, great. If times are tight and that is not in the budget, so be it. Why do people keep expecting more?

 

[FA Mikey]

Sick for the holidays requires a DR note, even family leave must be re-certified by your DR to use for a sick call over the holiday. So I guess they are cracking down.

 

[eolesen]

Bears, I guess I remember history a little different.

The only thing allegedly "hidden" in the SEC filings from 2003 was funding of the retirement plan for execs, which in reality didn't give management anything that the rank and file didn't already have -- all it did was protect executive pensions to the same degree that other employees with pensions above the PBGC guarantee were protected (pilots). It also forced AMR to adhere to ERISA requirements for reporting and disclosure on the SERP, which wasn't required as long as it was unfunded. If anything, it provided some financial transparency that didn't previously exist.

That's all it was. It wasn't illegal payments, it wasn't illegal bonuses. People used it as a rallying cry without taking the time to actually think about what it was.

The timing made people assume it was dishonest. That doesn't mean it really was, though.

The unions knew about the SERP (just as they were told about PUP), but either didn't recognize the action for what it was or thought it wasn't a big deal. Maybe they didn't care, since their retirement funds were equally protected.

Bottom line.... The concessions were going to happen regardless of the SEC disclosure.

Had the votes failed, a bankruptcy filing was going to happen. I was watching ACS manifests to see who was flying to LGA on an A2/A4/A6/A10 pass, and Gary Kennedy and several other execs from purchasing and finance were in NYC. I don't think they were there to see "Cats"..... They were ready to go to the federal courthouse and file.

If the SERP's hadn't been funded, you'd probably still be pissed off.

But I digress....

 

[AAStew]

Guys, I have a totally different approach which neither side may agree upon. If I am on reserve at Christmas or I have a trip, I either prepare myself mentally for it so try my damndest to get rid of it, expecting the worst. I did call in sick one Christmas (in 16 years), I was on reserve there was 2 IFS trips available and option 2 was open. I volunteered for one of the IFS;s (which meant I would have deadheaded either to Chicago or JFK to start my trip). Legally I was only good for a turn, but since Option II was open I figured we would help each other, you know a win/win situation. I was DCA-I and at 11:15 PM they called me for a DOM t/a out of BWI, there was an IAD and a DCA turn avaiable also, much closer to home, but they woudld not consider giving them to me. They also would not give me the IFS trips I requested which were worth 3 times the days as the turns. My BWi DFW t/a had 4:59 minutes sit time at DFW. I thought about it and got angrier and angrier, I had accepted the trip, but the thought that they would not work with me really made me seethe. I was willing to work, domestic, intl, just accomodate me a little so I could see my kids open up the gifts, if not at 5am, at 5 PM! I called in sick at 12:35AM. I remember because I had the Priest from my church over (Episcopal) and I said "Father forgive me for I am about to sin". IT would have been so much easier on all parties involved to realize we are all humans with jobs to do. I occasionally feel sorry for the crew trackers and schedulars. I don't think they start aout being nasty, in fact I have had some that it has broken my heart when I have called in sick because they are so kind and yet you know they are probably short-handed and overworked. As well as the flight attendtants who are working these 17 hour 2 day trips with delays all over the place,that mutual understanding needs to come our way also. Long story short, it is a shame we can't develop relationships with our schedulars and crews so we can recognize the human factor in our jobs.

 

[Skymess]

Legally I was only good for a turn, but since Option II was open I figured we would help each other, you know a win/win situation. it is a shame we can't develop relationships with our schedulars and crews so we can recognize the human factor in our jobs.

The rules suck and not getting paid for the holidays means they are going to have to jack up the reserve list every year.

My best friend flies for United. She has a Sydney layover on New Years. Leaves on New Years Eve and she will be in flight for New Years. People have been calling her and asking to trade for Sydney on different days that give her New Years off. She doesn't want to drop it because she gets 250 dollars in holiday pay. You think people are begging for trips around here? The only time I had people begging for my trip was when we got paid Millenium New Years pay of 300 bucks for New Years Eve and 300 bucks for New Years day. I had a Vegas layover.

Point is, pay us holiday pay and we won't have this stupid mess every year. Not everyone celebrates Christmas but most people who don't won't work it for the principle of no holiday pay.

 

[operaations]

I hate to say this but I will......holiday pay will not stop the sick calls. People want off they get off. we have option ii oe and mu that allows f/a's to call off sick and then make upthe time plus some.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

Sick for the holidays requires a DR note, even family leave must be re-certified by your DR to use for a sick call over the holiday. So I guess they are cracking down.

This was eluded to in the scary letter by Crew Resources/Flt Svc, I know..

fact is that......

That would be considered a "Blanket Medical Certificate"
The company tired this before, it went to arbitration, and APFA won.

Any(further) request for medical substantiation for an absence must be warranted by employees (individual) attendance record.

 

[Garfield1966]

AAStew,

Were the Intl flights at minimum crew? Was the BWI flt below minimum crew? My guess would be yes to both. Our concern has always been to make sure we have staffing for the flights. BWI does not have a lot of moves due to the limited flights. IAD has moves because they have a few wide bodies that are usually over staffed by 1 or 2 heads and we can reassign off of that or we can pair up a leg here or a leg there with an inbound FA. DCA is also easier to pair up. I know this because I have worked both intl and Dom DCA. Bottom line is, in all probability, BWI was the most critical and most likely to cancel with out a full crew.

I have said it a hundred times and I’ll say it again. First we do not care who you are. We don’t hold grudges and we do not have a list. We are closely monitored and our only job and our only care is to cover a sequence. We do not look to piss people off. We did not look to piss you off. What you want or what I want is not relevant. If you are an Intl RSV who is legal for a Dom sequence that may cancel and I have exhausted other options then you are going on that sequence. You can whine all you want. You can ask us to work with you all you want and we do not care. You have two choices at that time, you can fly it because it is your job or you can bomb in sick and we will screw someone else’s life up. Second. If you really want to see what goes on here, come on up during an OSO and take a look. If you come up when it’s quiet we can show you what may happen in different situations.

We did not give you the trip you did not want for the shear entertainment factor. We had a job to do and pissing you off happen to be the best way at the time to do.

Skymess,

Holiday pay was given and it did not work. For the 10 years that I have been up here, nothing has worked … ever. The sick list has always doubled for the holidays. Pumping the reserve list seems like a perfect way to fix it. With any luck, next year they will pump up the intl reserve list and not allow fall backs so that Intl will have enough reserves and they can fly Domestic sequences when needed. Yes AA Stew, it will happen again ….. sorry.

 

[Skymess]

Skymess,

Holiday pay was given and it did not work. For the 10 years that I have been up here, nothing has worked … ever. The sick list has always doubled for the holidays. Pumping the reserve list seems like a perfect way to fix it. With any luck, next year they will pump up the intl reserve list and not allow fall backs so that Intl will have enough reserves and they can fly Domestic sequences when needed. Yes AA Stew, it will happen again ….. sorry.

I don't believe it Garfield. I don't work holidays. I do whatever I can to get rid of my holiday trips. The one year we had holiday pay for Christmas, I did a Christmas trip. When we got paid for the millenium, I worked that for the pay too. I know all my friends did the same thing. I'm not buying it that holiday pay doesn't work. When FAs put money on their trips for the holidays, people pick them up and fly them. When they don't, the trips sit in hiboard and the person flies their trip or calls off sick for it.

 

[Garfield1966]

Skymess,

I don't know what to tell you. I have worked every X-mass/new years with this exception of this year. With out exception we have been scrambling for people every single year and flight s have been canceled or at the very least short staffed every single year I have been here. I cannot recall ever seeing the sick list below 1800. I have worked numerous base and nothing has changed till this year when they finally loaded up the reserves for the end of the year.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

Skymess..
100% agree..
Money is an motivator..period !!!

AA has never truly offered any true, long term incentive to crews over the holiday...
So.. in essence, nobody knows if it will work here or not..

 

[Garfield1966]

My paycheck has always motivated me to show up. And as Olsen pointed out, I agreed to do so when I was hired and I was raised to keep my word. No bribes are needed for me.

Skymess said there was holiday pay offered and it did motivate her, you say it was not. Which is it? I know holiday pay was offered at least once. Are you saying it was not enough? How much would be enough for you?

 

[kuro_kuma]

Problem is, your paycheck is practically the same (other than the miniscule perdiem or possibly .40 cent incentive for working galley) when you have sick time in your bank, which is even a motivator to call in sick or try for a pvd (lol) rather than drop the trip to another f/a. Doesn't make it right, but what can you do. Holiday pay used to be a little extra for those who worked on a day that most people get off, but now it's turned into an incentive. I picked up a 2d trip on xmas once for 300.00 that I probably wouldn't have otherwise. If it had originally been my trip, I wouldn't have called in sick either though. Now, I see 2-300 put on ALOT of trips in an effort to get them dropped. Whether anyone so desperate to put that much money on trips to drop them will call in sick even with holiday pay? Maybe or maybe not. Extra pay does help so how great would it be to pick up holiday pay and money put on trips. I'm sure there'd still be a rise but not as much as no extra pay at all. There was a 5 hr turn for 400.00 and it was snapped up immediately. I do think for the ones who need to have the day off will do whatever they can but for those are on the edge, would love to have the day off but isn't crucial would see the holiday pay as an incentive to work it whatever percentage of those are (or would even call in sick even if it's not a big deal). Not they'd necessarily call in sick if it wasn't there but it does make a difference. Can we get the exact numbers of sick calls when we had the 600.00 extra for a two day trip on the millenium? I haven't seen those. I think part of the reason that was in place was the scare of what the millenium might bring also, so it may not be a accurate in representing any other year due to those who thought there may be a big mess. I used to work every holiday as an agent because we'd get double time and a half. Even when I wanted the day off, I couldn't give up the extra cash and would do what I could TO work, even if it was overtime. For those who were scheduled to work would be even asked to give up their shift so they could get it, even though by doing it that way, the pay was then time and a half rather than double time since the original agent would still get paid straight time on the holiday if not working. Seriously, it's hard to give up if you're teetering and it's not life or death to them. Another incentive that I loved was the perfect attendance passes. It was great getting 5 yr intl passes every year. May not have solved the problem but ease it up a bit, even if it's only on paper.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

My paycheck has always motivated me to show up. And as Olsen pointed out, I agreed to do so when I was hired and I was raised to keep my word. No bribes are needed for me.

Skymess said there was holiday pay offered and it did motivate her, you say it was not. Which is it? I know holiday pay was offered at least once. Are you saying it was not enough? How much would be enough for you?

Boyscout Garfield... :blink:

We did have a Holiday Pay plan in the 01 agreement that I considered somewhat fair. It was loosley based on UAs.

It was gutted in 03...as well was the operation that year IIRC.

If you were to to review the lost time figures in 01(despite 9/11 events) and 02, you would see reductions..(vs 03-06)

As anything, to be determined a "success" it would have to be "trended" year over year,
we have not been able to do that here with a plan that has remained consistent.

To answer your question as to what I think is fair, double time if you are on duty 12/24,25,31..1/1..

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Boyscout Garfield... :blink:

We did have a Holiday Pay plan in the 01 agreement that I considered somewhat fair. It was loosley based on UAs.

It was gutted in 03...as well was the operation that year IIRC.

If you were to to review the lost time figures in 01(despite 9/11 events) and 02, you would see reductions..(vs 03-06)

As anything, to be determined a "success" it would have to be "trended" year over year,
we have not been able to do that here with a plan that has remained consistent.

To answer your question as to what I think is fair, double time if you are on duty 12/24,25,31..1/1..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By GOD..AC AA LA FA,

You've made a good point.

With ONLY 8 paid holidays a year, mathematically APFA could (hypothetically) have paid holidays that look like this.......1/1....Memorial day....7/4.........Labor day......thankgiving............12/24...........12/25............and 12/31.

But, then again you would need to get BACK 3 of the 5 holidays that you LOST !!


And as you've suggested, pay them at ..x2, instead of...x2 1/2.

Or another way of looking at it is............(pre) 2003.....10 holidays..x 2 1/2 = 200 hrs.
8 holidays...x2 would equal..........(8 x 16) = 128 hours !

YES, I think that is FAIR ENOUGH.

What do you think......eolesen ???