to all those association sympathizers, the tragic situation at NWA was brought on by the association way back in 2001. Their iron clad farmout language let work fly out the door, and after almost 4 years of letting it go, NWA intended to adjust the manpower it needed to survive in this cut throat business............the association had to know what was goign on, they KNEW the company was going to replace them over a year before the strike was called..........where were the famous association lawyers? where were the grievances, the arbitration cases challenging the farmouts? just what was the association doing while Rome was burning???? like Nero they must have been fiddling.
Famous Last Words......
- Thread starter Bill
- Start date
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
Stooges win this debate.
We are better off giving away more pay and benefits to save jobs.
We are better off not being allowed to obtain ratification ballots on changes to our labor agreement. We must be saved from ourselves.
We are better off allowing Airline Corporate Exec's play us against each other in a race to lower labor cost instead of being united into one union.
We are better off providing $500 million in productivity improvements via pajama parties without any written guarantees of more food on our table.
We are better off partnering with recipients of the hidden Retention Bonuses that were exposed only after vote tabulated.
We are better off giving our ideas on dollar savings for free rather than be compensated for those via a suggestion or ideas program.
We are better off wearing t-shirts with slogans than to really stand together against the rich attacks on the middle class.
We are better off to fear being replaced so that we do not have to take a stand against a dismal record of 20 plus years of concessions.
We are better off not to speak out against failures of the current organized labor leadership than to be called a loud mouth that will ruin our measley paychecks and paid time off.
We are better to never see the big picture and simply be told to tow the union part line than to question anything that is currently happening within the profession.
Yep, stooges win, we are far better off this way.
We are just plain lucky to have a job brother.
TIME FOR CHANGE
Veteran
"DITTO"
:angry:
**Moderator Note: Please refrain from quoting a lengthy post. It just makes it easier for everyone to read follow-on posts. Thank you.**
Checking it Out
Veteran
- Apr 3, 2003
- 1,702
- 0
I see Amfa has closed another local! Local 12?
Delle will go down in history with this legacy! "How To destroy the AMT profession in 5 Years!!!!"
If the members approve the last contract offer at NWA will this mean Amfa will still represent at NWA? or Not? Seems like Amfa is backed in a corner!
Informer Amfa represents more Laid off AMT's than any other Union! Is this a record to be proud of?
Delle will go down in history with this legacy! "How To destroy the AMT profession in 5 Years!!!!"
If the members approve the last contract offer at NWA will this mean Amfa will still represent at NWA? or Not? Seems like Amfa is backed in a corner!
Informer Amfa represents more Laid off AMT's than any other Union! Is this a record to be proud of?
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
Are you serious? I had heard this but was unable to confirm it. I had heard rumors that the upper echelons of AMFA and the IAM were in a real-estate partnership where they purchased land, condos and apartment complexes with union dues from both unions. What else do you know of this?
As I read the attacks on AMFA here the hypocrisy is overwhelming.
One person says that AMFA is not as Democratic as they claim because they did not resubmit the companys proposal to the members.
The fact is the members made it clear through a vote that they REJECTED the companies demands. Why should they keep resubmitting something that they already rejected?
Will Delle be recalled?
Thats up to the members of AMFA. AMFA members have that option, unlike TWU members who cant do a thing about the fact that members from management-Jim Little and others who are still getting paid off by the company decide what we will work for.
These TWU officers deliberately misinformed the membership by using the comnpany's hand picked company, ECLAT to supposedly "go though the companies books". In fact "ECLAT" did such a good job at helping the management of the TWU screw over thier own members that AA hired them again to run the Wright Amendment misinformation campaign, only this time there was opposition to their lies so the outcome remains unclear.
Another person asked if the TWU would bring back a contract that cut pay by 25% and the membership by 50%. TWU supporters really didnt seem to want to address that.
Well in a way they did. AA workers were the first to lose 25% of compensation, despite having a Billion $ on hand. During the TWU/ECLAT/AA concessions campaign the threat on the table was that they had to meet the dollar figure the compny said they needed, a figure the union did not challenge. They could meet it through compensation reductions and work rule changes which were given an unchallenged dollar figure by the company or layoffs. So according to the handout given by the TWU it was either everyone lose 25% of their compensation or for M&R, 2502 jobs. Either option would have met the compnays dollar figure. The committee chose to lose the 2502 jobs, the company's bluff was called. Jim Little and company claimed they could not run their business with that much reduced headcount so the headcount option was removed ,now they said it was either the 25% cut to everyones compensation or 12000 jobs.
Now lets see what has happened over the last 2 and a half years. How much has the headcount been reduced in M&R? WELL OVER 2502. The company laid off some then simply did not replace normal attrition. So the company in fact doubled the amount of the concessions, instead of around $700 million in concessions from M&R they got $1.4 billion, and now the JLT seeks to make that figure even larger.
The JLT is a union busting scam that Jim Little, someone who spent many years in AA management, has fully endorsed. The JLT rep , an unelected rep, chosen by the company to represent the Rank And File, along with other unelected TWU reps such as Bobby Gless and John Connelly have been going around selling this program. They have been conducting meetings with lower management and union reps. Union reps have reported that when the goals of the program are cited as unrealistic by the lower level management that the unelected union officials are more agressive than company officials at defending those goals. These TWU officials are acting as company pitbulls!
One of the goals of the JLT, a union busting scam endorsed by the AA management bought sold and controlled TWU is to try and extract SWA productivity at AA compensation.
The sad fact is that in the Airline Industry the AMFA stood alone as a union. Other unions like the UAW recognized this and offered what support they could. While the TWU, with AA management in the form of Jim Little at the helm, betrayed their members to line their own pockets the AMFA members at NWA were the ones that said "NO".
When all this started I said that our concessions would do nothing but make us poor and others rich. Basically we all pay dues but dont have a union, certainly not anything that performs like a union. The promises of AFL-CIO solidarity turned out to be a lie. AMFA was attacked by the leaders of these bought and paid for unions because they would not participate in the scam.Union leaders stand to benifit from selling us out, whether it is illegal direct payments from AA like in the case of Gless and others in the TWU or from the increased value of pension investments in airline stocks, they have more to gain by screwing us than they do fighting for us.
As we can see from the stock others recognize that the airlines are poised to make profits like never before. Despite the rise in stock prices we will not share in the prosperity, we will continue to fund it. The pittifully small amount of stock that was awarded to us would require that the stock go up to over $300/share in order for us to break even, and the $500 million threshold and cap on profit sharing guarantee that that we could never really "share" in the prosperity.
So as we see TWU supporters inquire as to Delles fate and level criticizm at the fact that he did as his members dictated they remain in a union where the members have no voice, no choice, and are required to compensate corrupt appointed leaders six figure salaries and perks which are in addition to the illegal payments recieved from American Airlines.
One person says that AMFA is not as Democratic as they claim because they did not resubmit the companys proposal to the members.
The fact is the members made it clear through a vote that they REJECTED the companies demands. Why should they keep resubmitting something that they already rejected?
Will Delle be recalled?
Thats up to the members of AMFA. AMFA members have that option, unlike TWU members who cant do a thing about the fact that members from management-Jim Little and others who are still getting paid off by the company decide what we will work for.
These TWU officers deliberately misinformed the membership by using the comnpany's hand picked company, ECLAT to supposedly "go though the companies books". In fact "ECLAT" did such a good job at helping the management of the TWU screw over thier own members that AA hired them again to run the Wright Amendment misinformation campaign, only this time there was opposition to their lies so the outcome remains unclear.
Another person asked if the TWU would bring back a contract that cut pay by 25% and the membership by 50%. TWU supporters really didnt seem to want to address that.
Well in a way they did. AA workers were the first to lose 25% of compensation, despite having a Billion $ on hand. During the TWU/ECLAT/AA concessions campaign the threat on the table was that they had to meet the dollar figure the compny said they needed, a figure the union did not challenge. They could meet it through compensation reductions and work rule changes which were given an unchallenged dollar figure by the company or layoffs. So according to the handout given by the TWU it was either everyone lose 25% of their compensation or for M&R, 2502 jobs. Either option would have met the compnays dollar figure. The committee chose to lose the 2502 jobs, the company's bluff was called. Jim Little and company claimed they could not run their business with that much reduced headcount so the headcount option was removed ,now they said it was either the 25% cut to everyones compensation or 12000 jobs.
Now lets see what has happened over the last 2 and a half years. How much has the headcount been reduced in M&R? WELL OVER 2502. The company laid off some then simply did not replace normal attrition. So the company in fact doubled the amount of the concessions, instead of around $700 million in concessions from M&R they got $1.4 billion, and now the JLT seeks to make that figure even larger.
The JLT is a union busting scam that Jim Little, someone who spent many years in AA management, has fully endorsed. The JLT rep , an unelected rep, chosen by the company to represent the Rank And File, along with other unelected TWU reps such as Bobby Gless and John Connelly have been going around selling this program. They have been conducting meetings with lower management and union reps. Union reps have reported that when the goals of the program are cited as unrealistic by the lower level management that the unelected union officials are more agressive than company officials at defending those goals. These TWU officials are acting as company pitbulls!
One of the goals of the JLT, a union busting scam endorsed by the AA management bought sold and controlled TWU is to try and extract SWA productivity at AA compensation.
The sad fact is that in the Airline Industry the AMFA stood alone as a union. Other unions like the UAW recognized this and offered what support they could. While the TWU, with AA management in the form of Jim Little at the helm, betrayed their members to line their own pockets the AMFA members at NWA were the ones that said "NO".
When all this started I said that our concessions would do nothing but make us poor and others rich. Basically we all pay dues but dont have a union, certainly not anything that performs like a union. The promises of AFL-CIO solidarity turned out to be a lie. AMFA was attacked by the leaders of these bought and paid for unions because they would not participate in the scam.Union leaders stand to benifit from selling us out, whether it is illegal direct payments from AA like in the case of Gless and others in the TWU or from the increased value of pension investments in airline stocks, they have more to gain by screwing us than they do fighting for us.
As we can see from the stock others recognize that the airlines are poised to make profits like never before. Despite the rise in stock prices we will not share in the prosperity, we will continue to fund it. The pittifully small amount of stock that was awarded to us would require that the stock go up to over $300/share in order for us to break even, and the $500 million threshold and cap on profit sharing guarantee that that we could never really "share" in the prosperity.
So as we see TWU supporters inquire as to Delles fate and level criticizm at the fact that he did as his members dictated they remain in a union where the members have no voice, no choice, and are required to compensate corrupt appointed leaders six figure salaries and perks which are in addition to the illegal payments recieved from American Airlines.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #52
Whew Bobby, that might be a record for you. But what is failed to be mentioned is that Delle (and his real estate cronies!!) started all of this "destruction" in the first place preaching BK!! Hell, he wanted AA in BK if I remember correctly. He has handled this badly from the get go. Trying to be a vigilante so his members would like him better? To sway more dues paying members to come his way??? HMMMMMM.
Well you dont remember correctly, and why should you, after all there isnt much you do correctly is there?
What you fail to mention is that the destruction of the A&P profession started over twenty years ago when the TWU allowed the company to transfer pushbacks to Ramp. That resulted in the loss of mechanic jobs all through the system, especially at smaller stations. This first blow against our profession was followed up by the loss of De-icing, then the creation of SRPs. All these moves resulted in a loss of A&P jobs. It was the fact that other unions such as the IAM refused to pit one type of member against the other that eventually set the stage for the wholsale elimination of overhaul by some carriers. The only way they could compete with AA, by eliminating higher paid A&Ps with lower paid unliscenced workers, was to outsource. The TWU tries to hide this fact, that they have decimated the A&P profession (we could also go into how the TWU is setting the stage for FAR66 with their TCC program)by including all Title I as A&Ps, and claiming that they have a high ratio of "mechanics" per aircraft, however we are not given the number of A&P mechanics per aircraft to compare.
As far as his motives, "so his members would like him better" thats one thing that Little , Gless, Yingst etc dont have to worry about since we cant remove them anyway, however in order to keep getting their checks from AA they have to keep management happy dont they?
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
I repeat, the stooges win the debate...
We are better off giving away more pay and benefits to save jobs.
We are better off not being allowed to obtain ratification ballots on changes to our labor agreement. We must be saved from ourselves.
We are better off allowing Airline Corporate Exec's play us against each other in a race to lower labor cost instead of being united into one union.
We are better off providing $500 million in productivity improvements via pajama parties without any written guarantees of more food on our table.
We are better off partnering with recipients of the hidden Retention Bonuses that were exposed only after vote tabulated.
We are better off giving our ideas on dollar savings for free rather than be compensated for those via a suggestion or ideas program.
We are better off wearing t-shirts with slogans than to really stand together against the rich attacks on the middle class.
We are better off to fear being replaced so that we do not have to take a stand against a dismal record of 20 plus years of concessions.
We are better off not to speak out against failures of the current organized labor leadership than to be called a loud mouth that will ruin our measley paychecks and paid time off.
We are better to never see the big picture and simply be told to tow the union part line than to question anything that is currently happening within the profession.
Yep, stooges win, we are far better off this way.
We are just plain lucky to have a job brother.
