Feeling Of Entitlement

[tadjr]

.

So perhaps the answer lies in a combination of the two. Something that goes at minimum that in order to maintain your seniority status you must also maintain your performance level as well.

Just a thought to ponder

[post="255963"][/post]​

I do wonder if some of the agents who had evaluation after evaluation (until a couple years ago when they suddenly stopped) were really that good and just recently forgot how to do their job or if the evaluations in the past were never really anything other than busy work for the supervisors. We have some agents that I cant believe are still employed (from pre union days) if they worked then like they do now. I find it hard to believe that they changed their work habits that much just since getting the union. I think a combination mentioned above is something that would be a good thing, but someone would have to actually read and follow up on the evaluations.

 

[mweiss]

Actually 27 years ago at PSA the CEO was I believe Bill Shimp...So, I did not know that then and I am surprised that it did change!

[post="255893"][/post]​

Touché. PSA was a tight family before the acquisition, even after several years of deregulation.

I sit corrected...and shoulda known better, since I already knew you were PSA (the "real" one). 🙄

 

[Art at ISP]

I agree with the most part with Piney. While seniority should be respected and honored, there should also be a merit factor-whether it be a performance bonus or other form of recognition.

As Bob said, there are down sides of both performance only and seniority only systems. I also think there is a problem with "entitlement" but that it only affects a small percentage of U Workers.

We have always maintained that 99.999% of U employees are absolutely the best in the industry. I stand by that assessment. However, there are a few who have become lazy and just show up, finding any way or reason not to do their jobs. They think that because they are senior they can get away with it, and to a degree they are right because their union will defend them. Unfortunately those "slackers" if you will, are dragging the whole thing down. Now there are those types in every industry, but I don't think U can afford to carry them any more. Honestly, don't some of you feel angry and frustrated about having to cover for and carry such employees?

The bottom line here is that I think we all want this company to survive and grow again. I know that the overwhelming majority of you folks feel that way, and I know your customers do. For those who come to work every day and do their jobs to the best of their abilities, great. For those who show up and do as little as possible, it's time to move on.

On the other hand, it's also time to change antiquated rules which prevent employees from doing the best possible job--like my pet peeve about the rampers refusing to park and work a flight at the next gate because it's out of their "zone". It's time to work together, not point fingers and make excuses. There needs to be a culture change throughout the company to make this work.

Change is difficult but necessary. The simple fact is that the future of this company is in jeopardy, and it is incumbent on ALL employees to make their best possible effort to insure its survival. I am sorry to say if you don't feel that way, then perhaps it IS time to move on.

I am only a customer, but I have heard plenty from employees with whom I speak during my travels, and I count many of you as my friends. I know it's tough, unpleasant and difficult out there. The fact that most of you continue to shine in these conditions is to your credit, and will be a major factor in the survival of this company. I can only imagine what it would be like if you were HAPPY with your jobs!! You'd own this industry.

It's YOU folks who keep US folks coming back-please try to remember that. We the customers recognize and ackowledge that, and we offer our undying support and appreciation---and candy when we're able.

My best to you all...........

 

[Bob Owens]

PSA1979,

Assuming that "DC3" was a typo (maybe DC6, DC7, Connie, B707 - whatever PanAm flew in the 50's and 60's), I didn't mean to imply that every employee enjoyed the "good life". I did assume that the F/E's were treated like the rest of the crew, but was obviously wrong, and for that I apologize.

Jim

[post="255829"][/post]​

Back then most FEs were mechanics.

 

[Bob Owens]

I guess if you're a drone or a robot. But human experience makes you grow and learn. If you don't, I feel sorry for you. Everyday I go to work, I learn something. And usually that something is how to be a better f/a and person.

Either the people I work with or our pax teach me something that I take with me. Obviously, you don't, growing is good, it comes with maturity. Don't worry honey, one day you will mature enough to understand.

[post="255869"][/post]​

Not only that but inflation is pretty much always a factor and rarely to increases outpace inflation so people are not really seeing increaes, just adjustments.

 

[PSA1979]

Back then most FEs were mechanics.

[post="256041"][/post]​

You're right my Dad was a mechanic and spent most of his time repairing things during the re-fueling.

 

[Bob Owens]

It's not.
Of course you are, at least within the terms of the contract.

They're on a different system than you. They were 27 years ago, and they still are. You knew that 27 years ago. Are you surprised that it didn't change?

[post="255888"][/post]​

Actually both changed.

Management abandoned the reward system for employees and went obscene with management compensation.

Years ago my father was a Chauffer for a huge Manhattan based Chemical company. My father earned around 20K, with OT, while the CEO earned around $200K. So from near the bottom to the top the factor was 10. His position was non-union but he still recieved health benifits, pension and annual raises. Sure there were bonuses and options back then too but nothing like what we see today.

The fact is that back then executives would not have dared to pay themselves so much then arrogantly turn around and tell the workers to accept less or leave. Not only would the unions have shut them down but there was also a fear of kidnapping. My father was sent to special driving school to learn evasive maneauvers and was asked to carry a gun(which he refused). They even encouraged him to take his kids to work in order to make the bond closer.

Todays CEOs do the same job that their predicessors did, only they get paid a lot more(in any measure) to do it. I think we need to "outsource" top management.

 

[PSA1979]

Piney and Art,
Our company used to do a yearly review on each one of us. It had on it sick calls, late check ins, missed flights, good letters, bad letters, etc.... They stopped it a few years ago, I don't know why.

Even though we are on a seniority system, the company still can weed out the bad apples. They do have a progressive discipline system. Sick calls, late check ins, missed flights, no contacts, all count and it's a 3 tiered system.

Right now, they seem to be all on it and moving f/a's along the system at an alarming rate. Terminations abound.

The biggest problem in the f/a department is that there is no one to rate you while you are at work. We used to have check rides, gone, ghost riders, gone. If you have a lazy co-worker, short of you writing them up, nothing gets done about it. We all have a tendancy to stick together and not report each other.

Like most occupations do, ie: police, fire, teachers. etc. No one wants to be labeled a snitch. So, we just pick up the slack. This I view as a company problem anyway. Why should I be the one tattling on my fellow co workers? Why aren't there programs implemented to resolve this? It's not like they don't know what to do, it's just that they have chosen not to.

This is not just a post 9-11 thing either. This company got rid of the check rides years ago. I can't even remember the last time I had one.

So, bottom line here, It's pi@@ poor management that has gotten themselves in this position, not Unions protecting everyone. There is no judge or arbitrator in the world that would give back a job to a lazy, worthless, no good employee, that abuses sick time, doesn't do their job, and basically steals from the company. (getting paid for doing nothing)

There's just no accountability. If I let my son do what he wants, how can I possibly get mad when he stays up all night? I need to set the rules as the parent. US is a rotten parent and they are raising a few rotten children! :down:

 

[Bob Owens]

I agree with the most part with Piney. While seniority should be respected and honored, there should also be a merit factor-whether it be a performance bonus or other form of recognition.

As Bob said, there are down sides of both performance only and seniority only systems. I also think there is a problem with "entitlement" but that it only affects a small percentage of U Workers.

However, there are a few who have become lazy and just show up, finding any way or reason not to do their jobs. They think that because they are senior they can get away with it, and to a degree they are right because their union will defend them. Unfortunately those "slackers" if you will, are dragging the whole thing down. Now there are those types in every industry, but I don't think U can afford to carry them any more. Honestly, don't some of you feel angry and frustrated about having to cover for and carry such employees?

[post="256036"][/post]​

Well the fact is the unions have to provide representation and if the company tolerates slackers its management fault. There is no contract out there that does not allow management to fire those who fail to perform. The point is that the company has to apply its standards equaly and document their problems with the worker, most simply cant be bothered, in fact even non-union companies have plenty of slackers, their tactics are just different, they suck up to the boss instead of working.

The seniority system may have its flaws but "performance based" is subject to corruption. Favoritsim, cronism and nepotism. The results through seniority based promotion and "merit"(as determined by management) probably favor seniority. I cite the fact that crew chiefs are done by seniority and management is not. From what I've seen over the last 25 years is that the quality of crew chiefs is at least as good as the quality of management and there are no hard feelings.

 

[NAPAUS]

Piney and Art,
Our company used to do a yearly review on each one of us. It had on it sick calls, late check ins, missed flights, good letters, bad letters, etc.... They stopped it a few years ago, I don't know why.

Even though we are on a seniority system, the company still can weed out the bad apples. They do have a progressive discipline system. Sick calls, late check ins, missed flights, no contacts, all count and it's a 3 tiered system.

Right now, they seem to be all on it and moving f/a's along the system at an alarming rate. Terminations abound.

The biggest problem in the f/a department is that there is no one to rate you while you are at work. We used to have check rides, gone, ghost riders, gone. If you have a lazy co-worker, short of you writing them up, nothing gets done about it. We all have a tendancy to stick together and not report each other.

Like most occupations do, ie: police, fire, teachers. etc. No one wants to be labeled a snitch. So, we just pick up the slack. This I view as a company problem anyway. Why should I be the one tattling on my fellow co workers? Why aren't there programs implemented to resolve this? It's not like they don't know what to do, it's just that they have chosen not to.

This is not just a post 9-11 thing either. This company got rid of the check rides years ago. I can't even remember the last time I had one.

So, bottom line here, It's pi@@ poor management that has gotten themselves in this position, not Unions protecting everyone. There is no judge or arbitrator in the world that would give back a job to a lazy, worthless, no good employee, that abuses sick time, doesn't do their job, and basically steals from the company. (getting paid for doing nothing)

There's just no accountability. If I let my son do what he wants, how can I possibly get mad when he stays up all night? I need to set the rules as the parent. US is a rotten parent and they are raising a few rotten children! :down:

[post="256047"][/post]​

😉 😉 This mgmt of this airline is now - sadly to say - is rotten to the core. Usless and without any direction other than to direct its mgmt staff do whatever they need to do to get rid of the entitled senior workers. Its pretty simple, US mgmt wants low paid, low rent , short term workers..its quite transparent US is on its way to extinction unless something DRASTIC happens.

 

[Hope777]

PSA is dead on, when they said there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY. This is Root of all Evil here.

 

[KCFlyer]

Seniority by itself does tend to breed a sense of entitlement. It also tends to create attitudes of trying to manipulate the system. Both of which are not good.

[post="255963"][/post]​

How is this any different from the "sense of entitlement" among Elite Frequent Flyer programs?

 

[Travelpro72]

As a flight attendant on the "soon to be disolved" international division in PHL I have to say that I have flown with a bunch of the most incredible ladies so far in my career. To say senior is an understatement. These women have something about the way they work and interact with other f/a's that you can only hope to be as good as they are. When I say as good, it's not about cracking a soda can and slinging a meal, it's about the true love for what they do. I'm usually set off a few times on a trip when with fellow workers of my seniority or close to it. Some are dumb as boxes of rocks. When I read "feeling of entitlement" and "seniority disadvantage" has the company given these f/a's any reason to leave. Since I started here in 1998 they have made it really tough for flight attendants to retire. Who could afford it? Although more senior f/a's leaving moves me up the ladder, I tell those I really appreciate, "You will certainly be missed". I L O V E the PSA girls and the crazy stories most.....LOL.

 

[JS]

How is this any different from the "sense of entitlement" among Elite Frequent Flyer programs?

[post="256066"][/post]​

The difference is that elite status must be re-earned every year. It's very easy to jump ship from one airline to another. It would be like an employee signing a one year contract in a non-RLA environment -- a huge improvement IMHO.

 

[PSA1979]

Travelpro72,

That's what I'm talking about. These "senior" f/a's have so much to give us. We will all be better for listening to them.

When I started flying in 1979 one of the top f/a's was a beautiful redhead that started flying when she was 18 years old in 1963. Well, she just retired last Nov. and she was only 59. The stories she used to tell....

I think the ones that started this thread were in the International division, but their seniority would only hold the most junior trips (MAN and LGW) so they figured if all those senior mamas would leave, they could go to FCO, FRA, and MUC. It tends to change your thinking when you feel you could be senior if all those people would just leave.

Well, I could be senior if they all left too. But, I don't feel badly towards them, they will go when it is right for them financially and emotionally. Just as we all will.