Feeling Of Entitlement

[jimntx]

As a flight attendant on the "soon to be disolved" international division in PHL I have to say that I have flown with a bunch of the most incredible ladies so far in my career. To say senior is an understatement. These women have something about the way they work and interact with other f/a's that you can only hope to be as good as they are.
[Edited for length]

[post="256075"][/post]​

Can I have an AMEN from the choir? Travelpro72, you really expressed my sentiments except I'm domestic. The same is true here at AA. A 15-year f/a was going on to me about how the "senior mamas" wouldn't be able to hold up under the short layovers and 4-leg days (tell that one to a SWA f/a!). I pointed out that she was talking about a group of women who used to hand carry trays in coach while wearing 3-inch heels and a girdle! Hard work was not going to make any of them retire.

It's the 15-20 year bunch that think they are "entitled" to something. They came in AFTER the battles to get decent work rules and pay; so, they have no real perspective on what it was like before.

 

[Travelpro72]

Exactly. I commute from PIT so I actually would prefer to be domestic but I don't see myself getting back here any time soon. Seniority runs very high here obviously. Many senior flight attendants are doing the domestic thing too. I ask why some are on the 4 day trips with 5 legs a day and they usually reply, "Honey, It's commutable". The ones that are just barely holding a secondary block here piss and moan about how horrible. Hey, were all here doing the same thing. In complete honestly though there are a few that I work with that remind me of Miss Crabtree, your first grade teacher. Wacko and mean as hell. I have been embarrased quite a few times working Envoy across the aisle from another. She had her sweater wrapped around her neck for the "bread, wine and water service". no joke. her wig was crooked too and she couldn't care less. She comes out of the crew rest after sleeping and the hair is just all over the place. She's harmless but needs to hand in the wings. It's funny.

 

[jimntx]

Piney and Art,
Our company used to do a yearly review on each one of us. It had on it sick calls, late check ins, missed flights, good letters, bad letters, etc.... They stopped it a few years ago, I don't know why.

Even though we are on a seniority system, the company still can weed out the bad apples. They do have a progressive discipline system. Sick calls, late check ins, missed flights, no contacts, all count and it's a 3 tiered system.

Right now, they seem to be all on it and moving f/a's along the system at an alarming rate. Terminations abound.

PSA, you could have been describing the situation at AA! From my perspective of 3 years experience at AA, but many years in major industry, a lot of the performance problems among f/as are self-inflicted by the company because the first line supervisors were (are?) too lazy to do what needs to be done to get rid of the slackers.

A friend of mine who is a union rep at one of AA's bases told me that if the Flight Service Managers (first line supervisors) in his base were any good and did their jobs when it came to documentation that he wouldn't win 1 in 10 termination grievances. The FSMs would sit in grievance hearings and claim that they had counseled the f/a regarding the attendance/performance/whatever issue and, in fact, probably had. They just didn't bother to provide the proof that the counseling took place. With no proof other than he said/she said, labor arbitrators tend to err on the side of the employee. If you can show documentation that the counseling took place including the employee's signature on the summary of the session, the company wins almost every time.

 

[diogenes]

that glacier is my rise up the list.

[post="255871"][/post]​

As I am being outsourced, not retiring, and have many years of making a living ahead of me, you'll understand that your relative seniority is way down on my 'worry about' list.

Of course, one of the 19th century robber barons claimed he could hire one half of the work force to kill the the other half for their job.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Gee, what's the F/A senority in PIT to hold a line these days -- 20 years?

 

[PSA1979]

Gee, what's the F/A senority in PIT to hold a line these days -- 20 years?

[post="256196"][/post]​

Most junior primary line holder has a seniority of Mar. 30 1987 in PIT.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Most junior primary line holder has a seniority of Mar. 30 1987 in PIT.

[post="256199"][/post]​

And I (unfortunately) assume that this is before the significant chunk of time comes out of PIT in the redo of the June bid.....

Jim

 

[PSA1979]

And I (unfortunately) assume that this is before the significant chunk of time comes out of PIT in the redo of the June bid.....

Jim

[post="256204"][/post]​

Yes this is for the March bid. I looked at April and most junior is Feb. 24, 1986, and you say they are pulling more time out in June? I feel for those PIT based, I saw it happen in SAN and I know what they are all going through.

 

[Travelpro72]

Like I stated above, I will be holding a "moon block" when I get back to PIT. You can always be in LGA and hold a primary at a 1999 seniority. My best friend was gonna leave PHL and commute to LGA instead. I quickly changed her mind. It's a 1999 seniority for a reason......

 

[BoeingBoy]

Yes this is for the March bid. I looked at April and most junior is Feb. 24, 1986, and you say they are pulling more time out in June?

[post="256238"][/post]​

Changes from May to Revised June pilot bid for PIT:

75D loss of 4 lines (all 75D jobs gone)
737 loss of 20 lines (should = 60 F/A lines)
A319 loss of 4lines (*should = 12 F/A lines)

The changes you're seeing now should reflect the changes from the Feb to May pilot bid:

75D loss of 8 lines (should = 32 F/A lines)
737 loss of 4 lines (should = 12 lines)
A319 loss of 4 lines (should = 12 lines)

Jim

 

[usacrew3]

The point of this post was not intended to bash senior flight attendants. I flew many trips internationally with some of the finest senior men and women in the industry.
The issue I brought up was that there is a serious flaw in the system at US Airways when you simply base trips, pay, schedules, positions all on seniority.
There needs to be more structure in the air, someone who is incharge and I don't mean the A flight attendant or the CSD who was put in that position because no one wanted it. The Cabin Service Director should be a trained position that comes with responsiblity and accountability.
Overflying is another issue that we could discuss that resulted in some folk trying to get their best years for retirement purposes while others sat around PHL in low budget hotels not earning a living.
The reserve system at US Airways is extemely inefficient. I never understood why I was offered positions on a flight by the scheduler, " We have ABCDEFGHI available." You picked a position then the following evening when you got to the airport you picked all over again. How about if the Cabin Service Director gave you your position? BMI does it that way and the CSD is respected on the flight. How about post trip debriefings and I don't mean in a bar in the hotel lobby at 6pm.

 

[diogenes]

Given the way management has handled U, would you trust them to give you an objective evaluation?

Seniority isn't the best way, but at U, it sure beats managerial input.

 

[Dea Certe]

usacrew3,

What would you like to see a debriefing? I don't think it's workable. Most folks are running for their commutes home or trying to beat the crowds out of the airport.

I learned a lot from the senior mamas and I hope I am able to pass on a few good things to the "next" generation of flight attendants. And I do hope there is a next generation! I fear in the future they will have to fight the battles we once won.

PSA (the old one) may be dead and buried but our spirit and, in most cases, our smiles live on!

😀

Dea

 

[4merresrat]

Make way for the butt kissers.

Seniority rules, it is the only fair and true system.

[post="255764"][/post]​

Unbelievable, "fair and true". Give me a break. There is nothing inherently fair or true about seniority, the poster is correct, it protects the weak, and is one of the BIG reason Usairways has not been successful.

 

[PSA1979]

At first I thought this thread was about "senior" bashing, now I see what it really is. The attitude that you deserve something because you are better than some one else.

In most jobs seniority rules, go to a Denny's and ask how they get their days off. Go to any office and ask the same question, tenure is the answer. Seniority.

Evaluations help you keep the job, seniority gives you your vacation, days off, better view from your desk.

I have seen this attitude many, many times. Airlines, FD, Police, Nursing, Accounting, you name it, it's all done in seniority. How about in our government, the senior Senator gets the better committtees.

These are the same people that would scream if their seniority was violated. And giving positions by the A or CSD, yeah right, all his or her friends would get the choice positions and every one else would get stuck doing the crap job.

You only deserve it in your mind, if you'd stuck with a job for 35 or 40 years you'd get the best schedule too.