Final Union Faces Deadline

[USA320Pilot]

You do not have to be on the NC to know what's going on. You simply talk to the parties.

As I said and then the company indicated in court, the IAM has been stalling due to the AMFA threat, which is why the IAM would not mind "imposition".

Will there be a deal? Probably with the Trainers and FSA's, but it will be much more difficult with the Mechanics/Utility.

In regard to the company not wanting to negotiate, is that not what the IAm did over the A320 outsourcing issue and their position all summer?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

You have not talked to anyone on the IAM NC, nor the company.

I bet you do not even know who is negotiating for the company.

The IAM Leadership nor the negotiating committee wants an impostion, you know if you keep typing your lies over and over, they are still lies.

And the company also said they had the right to outsource the Airbus, were they right on that?

And how many times do I have to tell you the IAM response to that question?
Judge Cindrich and Arbiter Richard Bloch Agreed with the IAM.

Proving you wrong it like taking candy from a baby.

Let me refresh your memory since you keep forgetting the real truth, from the Pittsburgh Tribune:

A company lawyer also asked Adimolfy* if the IAM was reluctant to negotiate with US Airways because the union had been decertified at United Airlines after negotiating an agreement that permitted outsourcing of heavy maintenance and work force reductions.

"We are not concerned" about being kicked out at US Airways, Adimolfy said.

*His name is spelled wrong"

And from ALPA:

We urge all pilots to contact their reps or the Comm Center for accurate updates on restructuring negotiations and the activity of other unions. We also request that all pilots refrain from promoting any management anti-union propaganda or chastise other employees in the media. There is little to be gained from such activity other than embarrassment for yourself, your fellow pilots, US Airways, and ALPA.

Gee, Who was ALPA referring too?

 

[USA320Pilot]

700UW:

You truly are clueless and do not know what is going on. You talk tough, but you are so far out in left field it is scary.

Evaluating company proposals is not negotiating and not until the end of the last week of a 3-week S.1113© hearing process did the IAM-M provide a counterproposal.

According to the Charlotte Observer, US Airways argued in bankruptcy court Tuesday that the IAM has been too silent, accusing it of dragging its heels in cost-cutting negotiations. Since the company submitted a written proposal Oct. 25 to its fleet-service workers, the union has made only one oral counterproposal, testified IAM leader Thomas Brickner.

Now the IAM-FSA makes a second counterproposal and the IAM-M an initial proposal this week, and you call that negotiating after 1-year of requests by management to sit down and talk. Give me a break.

Moreover, IAM leader Thomas Brickner testified in court "each time the company comes back for more concessions, it becomes more difficult to get a ratification." No kidding.

See Story

Who repeatedly said on this forum that the company's proposals would get worse and worse? Why did Brickner testify in court that the company would come back for more concessions?

With all of that said, the past does not equal the future and the IAM needs to get very serious or there will be major "pain", if Judge Mitchell "imposes" the company's offer and the airline has replacement workers ready.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Dog Wonder]

As long as the company pretends to negotiate, the IAM will also.

Why are you so interested in the IAM negotiation?

After the damage you did to your own group (of which you are so proud) a sensible man would stop running his mouth.

 

[700UW]

Once again you are clueless.

I know exactly what is going on, the IAM Fleet Service gave a written proposal on Wednesday and M&R gave the company a written one Thursday evening, were you there? Nope, did not see you!

Don't have to negotiate until 1113C process starts and why would the IAM sit down with the company after they stole the Airbus work which Judge Cindrich and Arbiter Bloch Agreed with that cost US $15 Million.

Are you on the IAM negotiating committee? NOPE! Are you an IAM member? NOPE! Are you a member of management? NOPE! Are you on the company's negotiating committee? NOPE! Are you at CCY on the 2nd floor where negotiations are taking place? NOPE!

And funny the company's proposal to Fleet got better in the counter not worse, gee you are wrong again! And the company has yet to counter the M&R. See the IAM has till Jan 6th to reach a T/A.

You have no idea what is going on, you are not there, have not seen you at CCY.

I have proven you wrong time and time again, like I said you can't even name everyone on the IAM M&R Committee (not everyone's name is on the bulletins) and you can't even name who is on the company's negotiating committee, ask yourself why? The answer is you are not an IAM member nor a member of management (even though you act like management), you are specualting and making up things as you go, in reality you are terrified you might have to go out and get a real job.

Take your own union's advice, they were writing about you anyhow:

We urge all pilots to contact their reps or the Comm Center for accurate updates on restructuring negotiations and the activity of other unions. We also request that all pilots refrain from promoting any management anti-union propaganda or chastise other employees in the media. There is little to be gained from such activity other than embarrassment for yourself, your fellow pilots, US Airways, and ALPA.

 

[USA320Pilot]

700UW:

In regard to the CLT Observer column about 2 years ago, the reason Roy Fruendlich put that information out, as you have been told over, and over, and over again, was the IAM complained and the code-a-phone was used to “coddle the IAMâ€￾.

Sort of funny, isn’t it.

Regardless, instead of trying to work through a problem, just like edited and Lavman, you try to discredit the messenger when the Judge could outsource your job on January 6 and then the company could execute a “lock outâ€￾. Then all of your complaining will be over because your union failed to negotiate for over 1-year while Rome was burning.

It’s time to stop the chest pounding, or I mean keyboard pounding, and try to find a creative way out of this mess. The train is leaving the station and you and your colleagues may not be on the train, since your union is the only one without a new labor accord or TA. "imposition" and "maximum pain" is on the way, whether you like it or not and there is nobody to blame but the IAM.

By the way, when did you say the Shuttle will be all Airbus?

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[deano]

700UW:

In regard to the CLT Observer column about 2 years ago, the reason Roy Fruendlich put that information out, as you have been told over, and over, and over again, was the IAM complained and the code-a-phone was used to “coddle the IAMâ€￾.

Sort of funny, isn’t it.

Regardless, instead of trying to work through a problem, just like Boof and Lavman, you try to discredit the messenger when the Judge could outsource your job on January 6 and then the company could execute a “lock outâ€￾. Then all of your complaining will be over because your union failed to negotiate for over 1-year while Rome was burning.

It’s time to stop the chest pounding, or I mean keyboard pounding, and try to find a creative way out of this mess. The train is leaving the station and you and your colleagues may not be on the train, since your union is the only one without a new labor accord or TA. "imposition" and "maximum pain" is on the way, whether you like it or not and there is nobody to blame but the IAM.

By the way, when did you say the Shuttle will be all Airbus?

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="229976"][/post]​

You have "Pain" spelled wrong captain, it should be...... E_A_S_T_E_R_N.

 

[700UW]

See instead of admitting you are wrong, you keep trying to insult and attack.

The whole board knows you are a scared person who is terrified that the IAM will put you out of a job. See the IAM are not cowards or rollover specialist like yourself, or shall I call it bendover specialist.

You can try to out me all you want, shall I do the same to you?

You continually post false information that you make up to try to impress the boards. The Chief Pilot in LGA should send you for a psych evaluation as you are an unstable person.

What about the UCT/ICT? See everyone knows you are a phony.

Come and stick to the issues and answer the questions, see you cant because you were caught posting phony information once again.

Name the company's negotiating team, come on, don't keep avoiding it, I mean you are the self-anointed genius of US Airways who knows all and makes sure everyone thinks you know all, when you know nothing.

Name everyone on the IAM NC, and there are more on the committee then on the bulletins, I mean someone like you who is a legend in your own mind should know everything come on and let the board know!

And how is it discrediting someone when you prove them wrong? You should be use to being wrong!
I really feel sorry for your family.

 

[ClueByFour]

With all of that said, the past does not equal the future and the IAM needs to get very serious or there will be major "pain", if Judge Mitchell "imposes" the company's offer and the airline has replacement workers ready.

[post="229970"][/post]​

That would expressly violate Mitchell's order for 1113(e). If you will recall, he did not permit the company to outsource in the event of work actions or slowdowns.

Not only that, but it becomes a slam dunk instant case for appeal, because it indicates the company was not negotiating in good faith. Remember, unlike the AFA, the IAM has not said a word about potential work actions.

Then there are the SIDA issues, background checks, drug tests, etc. You cannot hide that kind of expenditure from the scrutiny one needs to operate under in Chapter 11, and it's not like anyone is going to front a couple of million to U to accomplish these things in the event that it happens.

Think before blustering.

 

[USA320Pilot]

700UW:

I am not going to go tit-for-tat with you, but you’re wrong. But that’s o.k. because of the IAM screw ups the company now has agreements with every union but the IAM. Moreover, the ATSB, creditor’s committee, and GE all require cost cuts and in fact, the creditor’s committee even wrote the court a letter supporting “impositionâ€.

In regard to being scared I bet my portfolio can withstand a company “shutdown†better than most. So try again…

At this point it is what it is and nothing can be done about the past. Remember…it is only a job.

In regard to violating a S.1113(e) order, that would be superseeded by a S.1113© order per the comapny's motion. Furthermore, I understand the company has a security firm, security camera's, and other services in place in case of any job action. Remember TPA.

By the way...who first said that the ALPA DC Plan would be gone, ALPA would have a deal, and then the CWA and AFA would follow suit in that order?

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

P.S. By the way, I said the parties were discussing a corporate transaction and because US Airways elected to not pursue the move doe not mean I was wrong. There were in-depth discussions. How many times did Bronner publicly comment about his interest in UAL assets in the news media? Did you miss that too?

 

[USA320Pilot]

700UW & Clue:

Just one more point…

Consider this:

1. ALPA, AFA, CWA, TWU-SIM, TWU-FCTI, & TWU-DIS all have new accords or TA’s that meet the company’s ask. The only union show does not is the IAM.

2. The ATSB funds expire on January 15.

3. The GE agreement requires the cost cuts be in place or their bridge financing will be in default.

4. The creditor’s committee, with Airbus holding the chairman position, all support the company’s S.1113 and S.1114 motions.

5. Without the IAM meeting their “askâ€, either through a consensual or imposed agreement, the company will fail. The creditors will lose and there will be 34,000 jobs lost.

6. According to yesterday’s Pittsburgh Tribune-Review in a closing statement, US Airways' lawyer, Brian Leitch, said the airline needed all of its demanded $1 billion in labor relief if it is to "have a fighting chance" of successfully reorganizing and emerging from bankruptcy protection for a second time. Without immediate labor relief, US Airways could be forced to liquidate by mid-January, he said.

7. Judge Mitchell has supported virtually every company motion during two bankruptcy proceedings and provided the company with a tremendous amount of S.1113(e) relief.

Without financial covenant relief, the IAM must meet its “ask†or the airline will fail and every IAM employee will lose their job. Thus, what do you believe Judge Mitchell will do on January 6 if there are no TA’s between the IAM and the Company?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

5. Without the IAM meeting their “askâ€￾, either through a consensual or imposed agreement, the company will fail.

[post="229990"][/post]​

USA320Pilot,

There are definitely times that I believe you are so engrossed in making sure that everyone knows which trees you saw first and telling you fellow hikers not just what to do but how to do it that you are unaware that you and they are lost in the forest with no clue which way to go.

What the company is calling TP 3.1 (for the 1st revision to the third transformation plan in about as many months) is omniously like the POR from BK1. More RJ's and less mainline - a plan that worked so well that we were back in BK less than 18 months later.

You occasionally mention the 281 aircraft mainline fleet plan. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's been gone for a while now. 11 mainline aircraft have already been rejected, with 15 more in limbo with no 1110 agreement reached. Add the 25 being returned to GE over the next three years (as if we'll be around that long) and you're looking at 245 mainline airplanes max and as few as 230.

To offset the loss of mainline aircraft, you again have more RJ's - 31 in the GE deal and 3 from Bombardier by late January (which may be part of the 31 from GE depending on how they're financed).

I suspect you're thinking "But these are bigger - 70 & 90 seaters." Yes they are, but they still have higher unit costs than the mainline aircraft. To cite just one factor, the company's figures show that the Emb-170's "ownership" cost per flight hour (just to have the plane on the property) is higher than the A320, A321, B737-300, B737-400, B767, and A330. When you factor in the lower ASM's generated per flight hour for the Emb-170, you start to get an idea of the size of the problem.

The bigger aircraft - the Emb-190 & CRJ900 - will probably be more expensive still, although that will be offset by the production of more ASM's per flight hour. But none will produce as many ASM's per hour as the mainline aircraft, yet have higher hourly "ownership" cost than all but the 757 and A319.

The "plan" that didn't work before is unlikely to work this time. The concessions will only buy a little time at best. A look at our 3rd quarter portends the future. During all but the very end of that quarter we were adding RJ's. We were also doing more p2p flying, more Caribbean flying (longer haul), etc. Everything but the RJ's should have lowered our unit cost, but the result was that our system unit cost went up. Not only were we one of the few network carriers that saw system unit costs increase, but our increase was more than any other carrier.

Jim

 

[700UW]

Very well said Jim.

And 320pp, I am not wrong, you are not there and have no idea of what is going on with the IAM, and like I said, answer the questions, you keep dodging now.

Your silence just shows you have no idea and no clue.

And not EVERY IAM employee will lose their job, keep trying, great reach, every employee will lose thier job!

Let me post them again since you will say you never read them:

Come and stick to the issues and answer the questions, see you cant because you were caught posting phony information once again.

Name the company's negotiating team, come on, don't keep avoiding it, I mean you are the self-anointed genius of US Airways who knows all and makes sure everyone thinks you know all, when you know nothing.

Name everyone on the IAM NC, and there are more on the committee then on the bulletins, I mean someone like you who is a legend in your own mind should know everything come on and let the board know!

 

[Phoenix]

ALPA is not a trade union it is a do what is good for me club and screw everyone else.

How quickly you forget.

[post="229820"][/post]​

Forget? I think there are many pilots that understand this well. Perhaps some try to ignore or obscure but I can't imagine that any really forget.

Cheers,

 

[Phoenix]

700UW:

You truly are clueless and do not know what is going on. You talk tough, but you are so far out in left field it is scary.
Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="229970"][/post]​

700UW,

I have to start reading your stuff more often. Clearly such a comment is a resounding seal of approval when uttered by the one who really knows. With compliments like the one above you must be on the money!

Cheers!