Fleet Service apathy
- Thread starter ograc
- Start date
Tim Nelson
Veteran
The second AGC out of PHX will announce his candidacy next week.
The problem with PHX is twofold.
1. PHX doesn't need anyone from LAS or the east coast flying in to be their AGC.
2. PHX and the america west culture gets double whacked from not only having it's own AGC right there, but it also gets whacked because it's grievances have to go across country and there are only 5 US AIRWAYS AGC's handling all the work.
US AIRWAYS has supported Delaney twice. Myself and others have begged Delaney to stop treating the US AIRWAYS rampers second best but he has been unresponsive. OTOH, the Occupy 141 ticket and platform recognizes that there needs to be a re-allocation of resources insomuch as all members of this union, regardless of airline, should have fair representation. As PJ correctly noted, there is a backlog of grievances. That's not acceptable but PJ and others will be able to bank on a continual backlog if we put this union on a collision course for the next 4 years with only 5 AGC's for your members. Me and PJ can disagree all day about who that AGC should be, but it can not be denied that any support for Delaney will cut off any idea of increasing resources for the US AIRWAYS dues payers.
A member shouldn't have to keep calling his AGC over a process of YEARS wondering what the hell is going on. But, it's the exact sorta thing we ought to expect if you have a skeleton crew of AGC's at US AIRWAYS but a wealth of AGC's at United ramp. Everyone should be treated fairly. Makes 'good sense'.
The thing that our membership has lacked entire is empowerment. There are local chairman on the occupy ballot, but there will be other local chairman who are with the establishment who don't want the masses to abolish the current system that they sit on. That is understandable considering many of them see themselves 'next in line'. Looking at the Occupy 141 platform, it isn't any secret that much of what we know about the current 'good ole boy' structure will be abolished. I wouldn't have it any other way and I wouldn't have left my cushy District job if that's what I wanted. The members of IAM 141 have had sucky unprofessional representation for all of the 15 years I have been a member of it. And the AGC's have proved themselves insignificant at United, Hawaiian, and at US AIRWAYS. The system strips them of any power due to the fact that we have a President who circumvents Local Chairman, negotiations team, and AGC's when he signs LOA without the consent. Even the LOA that supports managements continual lockout at US AIRWAYS. That was a very serious LOA that supported an action that destroyed the lives of 250 members. They didn't even get 20 pieces of silver for that betrayal. But, nobody can do anything about it since the Occupy 141 platform is not installed. What we have is a broken type of paternal unionism from the last century that needed a tuneup about 50 years ago to get with the times, and still hasn't gotten one. With the current system, management is just kicking our members butts, regardless of airline. Just terrible.
Yes, I plan on coming out to PHX before the June elections.
Onward www.occupyiam141.com
regards
Jester
Veteran
And was it "Free Unlimited Brats and Beer Day" around the International when our CBA arrived in their offices for review? Seriously, this contract is awful in terms of the vagueness and authority given to Management, in particular, on determining an attendence policy. I am going to assume in-between rounds of beers and brats someone's mustard stained fingers reviewed the terms and the language of the CBA, and thought it was an acceptable agreement? We should be demand much more from our legal representation, not only in reviews of our CBAs and LOAs, but in terms of termination hearings and greviances.
With this suspect representation in mind, I'll ask you again... what is the point of the International and why are we paying dues to this organization, especially if we bring our own attorneys in-house?
So Repeats Jester.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Jester,
I'm actually amazed at how some of these individuals are so politically minded that they can't seem to understand the added value of having professionals at the negotiations table with us. What counts is that our members, who are not politically motivated, understand that this is a no brainer. Our members pay good money and, IMO, they deserve more than Delaney, Nelson, or anyone else without a law degree, in negotiations. Myself and our AGC's will have such an advantage over the current regime with this reallocation of resources and bringing in the work in-house.
Again: Negotiations = AGC + Attorney > AGC + cell phone
Onward www.occupyiam141.com
regards,
niblet
Advanced
Here Here. I'll toast to that. And the dues keep going up, with no raises on this end.
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
Waste of money, now that's an oxymoron when it comes to the IAM. Just think of all the better things that they could waste money on instead. Why spend it on anything that may actually benefit the membership. I can tell that you drank a lot of their koolaide over the years...
niblet
Advanced
Are you a 141 member and are you Fleet Service?
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Negotiation is a very serious matter as each article is discussed and professionals should always be involved, not just at the end. I would hold each negotiations session as sacred. The company takes negotiations very serious and has top folks in there with them, so should the union. Maybe that's why the IAM has done such a lousy job at US Fleet. As I said, the present mindset has produced so much gray in the contract that you can paint a USS battleship. It's the only contract that I have seen where 2% isn't 2%. Having AGC's review stuff and send emails telling AH, "OK", isn't acceptable.
At any rate, having an in-house attorney is normal and customary for most unions. I figure if the District is collecting $6 million a year then our members need more professional representation. Each negotiation session is important enough to have the President of the District in each session and I'm going to make sure that I have professional assistance by our side.
As I said, it's not a waste of resources, it actually saves money. It brings the legal work in house instead of contracting it out and being billed ridiculously. And when I have an in house attorney I will be using him. I do admit that I am very much attempting to change the mindset of the IAM 141. Someone has to because this union has been stuck in stupid from the last century and needs to lose the paternalism it practices. It's killing us and we are so far behind in the times.
www.occupyiam141.com
regards,
Lets see you got your first CBA in 1999, then in 2002 and 2004 US filed Chapter 11 cases and you took three rounds of concessions.
Dont let those facts get in your way.
Your fellow Fleet members ratified every concession that came your way.
The West was dangled a big carrot with a fat raise and the post merger CBA was passed.
Unless you havent noticed since 9/11 just about all the airlines employees took concessions, lost jobs and many airlines went out of business.
I guess 9/11, SARS, Iraq war and skyrocketing fuel prices had nothing to do with the state of the financials of the airlines.
You have never been in negotiations, half the time your sit in a room and you dont even meet with the company.
And having a lawyer who knows nothing about airlines and its workers Contract Language wont help a thing.
So US and UA are in negotiations, where does your one lawyer go? What if there is an arbitration case too?
And one lawyer cant handle the case load of how many airlines are in a district, and all the important grievances, see if you actually took the time to see what really goes on you might learn something.
And no lawyer is going to work 14 hour days for $85,000 a year, plus you need support staff, paralegals, etc...
Dont let those facts get in your way.
Your fellow Fleet members ratified every concession that came your way.
The West was dangled a big carrot with a fat raise and the post merger CBA was passed.
Unless you havent noticed since 9/11 just about all the airlines employees took concessions, lost jobs and many airlines went out of business.
I guess 9/11, SARS, Iraq war and skyrocketing fuel prices had nothing to do with the state of the financials of the airlines.
You have never been in negotiations, half the time your sit in a room and you dont even meet with the company.
And having a lawyer who knows nothing about airlines and its workers Contract Language wont help a thing.
So US and UA are in negotiations, where does your one lawyer go? What if there is an arbitration case too?
And one lawyer cant handle the case load of how many airlines are in a district, and all the important grievances, see if you actually took the time to see what really goes on you might learn something.
And no lawyer is going to work 14 hour days for $85,000 a year, plus you need support staff, paralegals, etc...
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
I guess that you forgot about the one in 2008, you know the one that GAVE UP profit sharing, and the snap-backs that the CWA represented group still has. I think that the company was out of BK at that time, weren't they????? How did fleet end up in the giving mood then? I know, the IAM put them there. If the 2008 T/A only dangled a carrot in front of the West folks, why did the IAM leadership endorse it? Did they forget about the East members?
If you have time, read the thread about the language in the new F/A proposal than nobody except a LAWYER can decipher....
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
We have travelled this road several times 700. Those who ratified it, didn't bear the brunt of it. Outsourcing was geared at the smaller stations, and the hubs carried the vote. All of these t/a are targeted at the junior people who only see the dollar in front of their nose. Most have no clue as to what we have lost in the last 15 years...
Harry Callahan
Veteran
Its amazing when I tell you that phl will need their own in house attorney just for your AGC up there, you start thumping your own chest. And no I didnt state that members who vote for lc,s are dumb. I was trying to make a point that you probably chose him because he was the lc and you know he can pull you the votes. Go ahead and admit on this forum for us all to read that you think George Austin is the best qualified person out of phl to be AGC. I want everyone to be able to go back and read it at a later date that you stated that. How many more current lc do you have on your ticket with US Airways side. Ive read where people have asked you to post their experience ( not yours!!!! THEIRS) for the members to see. And you just post their position. Why dont you talk about how many people on your ticket have experience at the step 2 and 3 level of the grievance p;rocess. Or if they have even done any??? But yet you want to say they are qualified for AGC. What a joke!!!!!Make sure you coach them well on what you want them to say, because as soon as some of them get asked a question that you havent told them how to answer, they are going to show everyone just how experienced they are. Tim, if you wanted to build solidarity, and you felt all these problems with US Airways, where were you up until now?? I didnt see any of these issues posted until you were fired from your job. Why did you not try and rally the troops to address these issues a long time ago. And dont say you were busy doing your district job, thats not a good enough reason for the guys you are bashing on here. You preach solidarity and change only at election time. Did you ever call any of the chairman across the system while you were in the district office and try to rally the troops for a meeting with Delaney. My guess would be no. Do you bother standing up for the 3 AGC,s that are currently doing the work of 5, and working their _ _ _ off for the members. No you just bash them and talk about how theyve been bought. If you think you couldnt have gone to the agc,s because they were bought off, then why not go to the chairman, maybe some chairman from around the system can get on here and say if you ever try to rally them for a show of solidarity and meet with delaney. OK Im done now, start thumping your chest again, and dont answer any of my questions!!!! WAKE UP PEOPLE, TAKE OFF THE BLINDERS, WE WILL BE TAKING 5 STEPS BACKWARDS WITH THIS GUYS TICKET.
