Fleet Service apathy

[niblet]

Shakedown every payday.

Whay would you call it that?

 

[saywhat]

Payroll deduction.

Let's assume everybody takes home 70% of their income for this excercise. $100000 x .70 = 70000/12= $5833 per month take home. Now, lets take $15000 out per year or $1250 per month. That would have Tim's guy taking home $4583 per month. ($5833-$1250) If the bylaws were changed to make the salaries $85000 then the take home would be $85000 x .70=$59500/12 =$4958. Tim's guy is taking home $375 per month less or $4500 per year by paying taxes on $100000 and then giving back as opposed to changing the bylaws to make $85000. Sounds brilliant (NOT). One Occupy guy is already saying he isn't giving squat back. Hey, these guys might still be ok even though they don't understand math. Get real.

 

[700UW]

And who is gonna earn the money they do, pay taxes on it and give it back to the District?

Doesnt sound kosher does it?

 

[Dog Wonder]

Whay would you call it that?

How else are you going to get the money?

 

[roabilly]

Let's assume everybody takes home 70% of their income for this excercise. $100000 x .70 = 70000/12= $5833 per month take home. Now, lets take $15000 out per year or $1250 per month. That would have Tim's guy taking home $4583 per month. ($5833-$1250) If the bylaws were changed to make the salaries $85000 then the take home would be $85000 x .70=$59500/12 =$4958. Tim's guy is taking home $375 per month less or $4500 per year by paying taxes on $100000 and then giving back as opposed to changing the bylaws to make $85000. Sounds brilliant (NOT). One Occupy guy is already saying he isn't giving squat back. Hey, these guys might still be ok even though they don't understand math. Get real.

In all honesty,

I'll bet that Tim knows this deep in the recesses of his own mind... It simply makes for a good sound bite when you are trying to garner support for election purposes. The reality of actually seeing the give-back program work is questionable at best.

I'll also bet Tim is completely aware of how contract negations work under the RLA... the odds of forcing the company to waive the NDA's are not good. An attempt to leverage the company to do this could lead to further delays and possibly an impasse.

One last question for Tim, or anyone on his ticket... How many of 27 people running under Tim are UA?

 

[roabilly]

I would like to know what is being discussed. Article topics and possible language changes. Proposals. We are out here in the field with little or no information about anything. Where do we stand? Is the company negotiating or bartering. Where do we look for information to at least inform members that we are moving forward? Look agents ask everyday whats happening in negotiations. How do we help ease their minds that The negotiating team is doing a good job?

Mr. Niblet,

Our local G/C makes periodic rounds of the entire property holding briefings in PERSON concerning the progress of negotiations. Our G/C Chairman is on the negotiating committee, and he is completely candid about negotiations. In addition, our AGC is available for contact via phone to anyone... and he is also on the negotiating committee.

To further my point, the local G/C gives a report to the Membership in every single meeting at the Local. All you have to do is attend... in addition... they are wiling to answer questions after the meeting as well.

Further, ALL Shop Stewards are frequently e-mailed updates by the G/C concerning negotiations, and they are available on the property at all times to update anyone who inquires.

I see no problem with communications other than I would like to see more written updates, and informational materials distributed to the members that are 'apathetic' and do not care to attend meetings or get involved otherwise.

 

[roabilly]

One last question for 700, Grad, Jester... or anyone who may know...

What are the realities of negotiating under the RLA concerning attorneys in negotiations... would it be cost effective? Is it something that the company does on their side of the table? If so... are we allowed to match attorney for attorney?

How much of the daily grind of negation's are refined legalese worthy of an attorneys oversight? Are attorneys not used before drafting a tentative agreement for presentation to the membership by both sides?

Would having attorneys in negotiations be worth the expenditure to the membership in terms of dues increases?

 

[roabilly]

IAM doesn’t like to tell its members article content and what articles have been agreed on because they could go back and change them

Actually they do AFTER an article is agreed upon by both sides. What everyone here is not addressing is this... the MEMBERSHIP is ultimately the final negotiator. What I mean by this is that the Negations Committee and/or the Company could play shell games and hide the weenie all they want with various articles, but none of this is actual language in a CBA until it is RATIFIED by the Membership in a Tentative Agreement or T/A.

The T/A should be reviewed by both sides with legal counsel before it is presented to the membership for approval. That is why we should dissect any T/A presented to us in it's entirety to assure that no tricks have been attempted.

I will say... I'm not crazy about Letters of Agreement after we have ratified a CBA. Anytime a LOA is inserted it should go through the same process as if it were a T/A. The membership should be made fully aware of the LOA and its exact language and consequences before it is signed.

More transparency regarding this practice is certainly warranted.

 

[necigrad]

One last question for 700, Grad, Jester... or anyone who may know...

What are the realities of negotiating under the RLA concerning attorneys in negotiations... would it be cost effective? Is it something that the company does on their side of the table? If so... are we allowed to match attorney for attorney?

How much of the daily grind of negation's are refined legalese worthy of an attorneys oversight? Are attorneys not used before drafting a tentative agreement for presentation to the membership by both sides?

Would having attorneys in negotiations be worth the expenditure to the membership in terms of dues increases?

First of all, I'm no expert, just one that applies logic and what knowledge I have. I have one Associates, am back in school for more, and none of it is in labor education.

From what I understand, there would be some but little value having an attorney attending negotiations. The simple fact is that at the end of the week everything goes to the lawyer on both sides anyway. It certainly would be convenient to have an attorney there (I think the company in fact does), but think about that; would you really want to discuss things with the attorney at the table? No. Sidebar? Sure, but if it's a simple question it can wait, and if not it likely needs to be researched in which case I want legal in their office, not at the table or in a back room working on a laptop.

That said I think there is value to having an inhouse attorney. I've HEARD that the DLs have full and complete access to GL legal, but I don't know how well that does or doesn't work. If it works then we don't need our own lawyer, if it doesn't, well, we need adequate legal counsel.

Yes, some things need to go by a lawyer. Actually all things, but only some things would likely require word for word input for negotiation. In fact, think about it. Do you want a lawyer writing your contract? Wouldn't you prefer someone who actually speaks English and will get you a contract that you can understand? Run it by the lawyers to make sure it's good, but keep them away for the most part. And THAT is something I've had experience with in some contracting that I was involved in. The CUSTOMER needs to be happy with the result, not the lawyer. In my case we (a small construction project) were buying (in part) windows. Our contract from the manufacture actually said we would not get the best price. Our lawyer said that was wrong, they should be giving us the best. Our logic, that we are a small customer (say 1000 windows) that is undeserving of the better rates they give to companies that buy far more (like KB Home or Pulte). The fact that the manufacturer already did a competitive bid and was the lowest didn't matter to the lawyer, nor that we would have lost the deal entirely due to that point.



The other day I asked if anyone knew how many people worked for the company in Labor Relations. From what I've been told, it's like five. I was wondering this because someone said we weren't meeting with the company enough. Well, since there are FIVE employees (plus however many lawyers, didn't ask that) currently negotiating with most union workgroups on new contracts do the math. It's not possible to meet more then something over once a month. We are not the only ones out there. They need to negotiate with us, the FAs, MX, DX, CSRs, even the pilots if that group ever grows up... It simply can't be done. Once negotiations are done they need to put together new proposals in response to our proposals, plus proposals on the new sections of the contract. Plus, don't forget about managing the contract issues and grievances that are existing now. There would be a valid argument for the company to hire more people for that department, but that's not our call, and not the fault of anyone in the union.

 

[niblet]

Mr. Niblet,

Our local G/C makes periodic rounds of the entire property holding briefings in PERSON concerning the progress of negotiations. Our G/C Chairman is on the negotiating committee, and he is completely candid about negotiations. In addition, our AGC is available for contact via phone to anyone... and he is also on the negotiating committee.

To further my point, the local G/C gives a report to the Membership in every single meeting at the Local. All you have to do is attend... in addition... they are wiling to answer questions after the meeting as well.

further, ALL Shop Stewards are frequently e-mailed updates by the G/C concerning negotiations, and they are available on the property at all times to update anyone who inquires.

I see no problem with communications other than I would like to see more written updates, and informational materials distributed to the members that are 'apathetic' and do not care to attend meetings or get involved otherwise.

Nice stuff. Good for you and yours. I'm glad to see your AGC comes to you. That would be nice here. We don't have anyone here on the negotiating committee either so we dont get any updates. LGA local has a facebook page and Frank from there says a little about whats being discussed by article number. I'm the G/C chair and my reports at the reflect what I know. Where are you located so I could try visiting.

 

[roabilly]

Nice stuff. Good for you and yours. I'm glad to see your AGC comes to you. That would be nice here. We don't have anyone here on the negotiating committee either so we dont get any updates. LGA local has a facebook page and Frank from there says a little about whats being discussed by article number. I'm the G/C chair and my reports at the reflect what I know. Where are you located so I could try visiting.

If you look at my avatar... it will be clear where I'm located. I'm sure you do the best with what you have... perhaps my perspective is influenced by the excellent group we have here. I forget that not all stations are as fortunate as we are. That's exactly why I do not want to lose the folks we have now... and start over!

 

[roabilly]

Thanks for the objective observations grad... I served as a shop steward for years... that is until recently when I decided not to run again. The main reason I wanted to take a break was that I HATE politics!

Too much of our energies and resources are going toward mud slinging... he said - she said... and distortions of the facts to fit political agendas. I know in a democracy that this is inevitable, but that don't mean I gotta like it!

I'm glad to see some intelligent conversation here as opposed to thinly cloaked attempts to defame one-another.

So laments...

BroBilly

 

[roabilly]

One other question for anyone willing to take it on...

This is in regard to the frequency of meetings in collective bargaining under the RLA. Are there restrictions and/or limits on time lines and lapses between meetings? In other words... what would it take if either side stalled negotiations... and further... could this be construed as bargaining in bad faith?

 

[john john]

One other question for anyone willing to take it on...

This is in regard to the frequency of meetings in collective bargaining under the RLA. Are there restrictions and/or limits on time lines and lapses between meetings? In other words... what would it take if either side stalled negotiations... and further... could this be construed as bargaining in bad faith?

http://usairlinepilots.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8068:us-airways-pilots-file-suit-against-the-airline-alleging-violation-of-legal-obligation-to-bargain-in-good-faith&catid=271😛ress-releases&Itemid=331
US Airways Pilots File Suit Against the Airline Alleging Violation of Legal Obligation to Bargain in Good Faith

 

[roabilly]

http://usairlinepilots.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8068:us-airways-pilots-file-suit-against-the-airline-alleging-violation-of-legal-obligation-to-bargain-in-good-faith&catid=271😛ress-releases&Itemid=331
US Airways Pilots File Suit Against the Airline Alleging Violation of Legal Obligation to Bargain in Good Faith

OK... this legal action occurred almost a year ago... can you elaborate on where they (Pilots) are in terms of resolving this dispute?