Fleet Service apathy

[niblet]

If you look at my avatar... it will be clear where I'm located. I'm sure you do the best with what you have... perhaps my perspective is influenced by the excellent group we have here. I forget that not all stations are as fortunate as we are. That's exactly why I do not want to lose the folks we have now... and start over!

Thanks for the support. CLT. Thanks to PHL PHX and my home FLL

 

[700UW]

Attorneys in each session would be a waste of resources, none of the major unions in the airlines have attorneys in each session. They are on call if needed and review all the language before we sent it out.

Having them in there is a waste, they dont work under and dont know the intent and the history of each article and its application.

 

[700UW]

http://usairlinepilots.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8068:us-airways-pilots-file-suit-against-the-airline-alleging-violation-of-legal-obligation-to-bargain-in-good-faith&catid=271😛ress-releases&Itemid=331
US Airways Pilots File Suit Against the Airline Alleging Violation of Legal Obligation to Bargain in Good Faith

And it was thrown out of court and the Judge Lambasted USAPA for filing it.

The case was dismissed in favor of the company.

And there is no time frame parameters in the RLA, that is all controlled by the NMB once it goes into mediation.

John, John, why didnt you post the the case was dismissed and it had no merit?

There is a whole thread on the topic.

Case Dismissed

 

[roabilly]

Thanks for the support. CLT. Thanks to PHL PHX and my home FLL

Mr. Niblet,

If you guys actually want to win this election, you should to be completely transparent about your platform. I think the consensus here in this forum alone has dismissed most of the bullet points regarding the validity of the occupy agenda.

I'm sure Mr. Nelson will disagree with me on this... however... I'm a grown man... I can take it. Political rhetoric should not, and does not have any influence in advancing the interest of the Membership in Collective Bargaining!

If you want to bring positive change... demand more information from your AGC regarding negotiations updates. After all... this IS the information age... we have the internet... start your own e-mail updates like our guys do here. Better yet... demand system-wide e-mail updates to ALL Union Reps in the field from the District Lodge.

Wiping out everything that we fought for... and stating over is NOT the answer!

 

[baggage engineer]

Attorneys in each session would be a waste of resources, none of the major unions in the airlines have attorneys in each session. They are on call if needed and review all the language before we sent it out.

Having them in there is a waste, they dont work under and dont know the intent and the history of each article and its application.

I do believe you said you are not a FSA so please quit tell us what is and isnt a waste of time. You don't work under and don't know the intent of
our contract either . Our contract is a joike. and please give it a rest about how you negotiated this and that . You negotiated yourself out of job
is what you did but yet you seem proud of that. That is what I would call a real LOSER.

If you don't realize an attorney is pulling the wool over your eyes , how would you know to call an attorney remember attorney's are like car salesmen
they can spin things to make it sound good to you but throw in a word here or there and your screwed. that's how we got screwed on our 2% raise.

 

[baggage engineer]

Roabilly, having a president that cancels arbitration to save the unions time and resources is not the answer either. Delaney showed his true colors
when he backed out of his campaign promise of arbitrating our attendance policy . and then backed out of arbitrating the 5 station closures and the
screwing of the buf people. God only knows how many other cities he will be willing to throw under the bus. we wont know until it happens since
he agreed with the company to keep it confidential

 

[700UW]

When you own the board, then you can tell me where and when I can post.

And I did not negotiate myself out of a job, I was a Stock Clerk when I left US.

And you can thank Tim for Delaney, he pushed for him to get elected.

 

[roabilly]

Roabilly, having a president that cancels arbitration to save the unions time and resources is not the answer either. Delaney showed his true colors
when he backed out of his campaign promise of arbitrating our attendance policy . and then backed out of arbitrating the 5 station closures and the
screwing of the buf people. God only knows how many other cities he will be willing to throw under the bus. we wont know until it happens since
he agreed with the company to keep it confidential

B.E... didn't we just cover ALL of this?

Again... the assumption that anyone will be "thrown under the bus" is ludicrous no matter who is president of the 141! Do you not agree that everyone including yourself... presented strong opposition to ratify the last CBA? Do you remember the neon orange "VOTE NO" stickers? I do... I still have one on the back of my Steward's Clip Board to present to management while defending members.

Do you remember the division that ensued over the ratification vote of the present CBA regarding the East vs. West? Do you remember the rhetoric that we all engaged in with our attempt to vote the tentative down? I do... we actually made references to job protection in our scope language in the F/S forum, and how important they were as opposed to monetary return.

Let's just face reality... the membership is ultimately responsible for agreeing to ANYTHING that is negotiated! Further... we (Fleet Service) are legally bound by the Railway Labor Act in negotiations; nothing will change that... period. Political rhetoric will not alter the course of reality in terms of speeding up, or enhancing negotiations!

I'm certain that you are intelligent enough to accept this as part of the reality of being a member of a unionized work group in an industry under the auspices of the RLA.

 

[necigrad]

One other question for anyone willing to take it on...

This is in regard to the frequency of meetings in collective bargaining under the RLA. Are there restrictions and/or limits on time lines and lapses between meetings? In other words... what would it take if either side stalled negotiations... and further... could this be construed as bargaining in bad faith?

And there is no time frame parameters in the RLA, that is all controlled by the NMB once it goes into mediation.

Kinda with what 700 said, there's nothing spelled out. You negotiate (or not) until there's an impasse. While I don't know (and 700UW would be the person to ask) is if the company refuses to negotiate what the process is. I'd imagine it's basically to petition the NMB for a mediator to try to force the meetings. No meeting then, you're at an impasse and go to cooldown.

 

[roabilly]

Kinda with what 700 said, there's nothing spelled out. You negotiate (or not) until there's an impasse. While I don't know (and 700UW would be the person to ask) is if the company refuses to negotiate what the process is. I'd imagine it's basically to petition the NMB for a mediator to try to force the meetings. No meeting then, you're at an impasse and go to cooldown.

Thanks grad... yew dah man...

I have reviewed the RLA in it's entirety, and and I found nothing to dispute 700... or yourself in this regard. The reason they are called "section six" negotiations is simple... it refers to section 6 of the RLA. We cannot escape this as our reality. We are legally bound to follow it for better or for worse!

It's like a bad marriage... you just have to accept... it or leave it!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Another question for Tim...

How do you intend to accelerate, and refine negotiations when you are legally bound by the Railway Labor Act?

Roabilly,

many interesting discussions over the past few days. I am back home and I will engage in the discussion, but for now, it is 1:30am and I'm going to sleep.

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

Tim

 

[dexter]

Bargaining updates are difficult to mobilize as they change minute by minute. Do you really want to show the Company your hand so to speak while negotiating an article that could somehow be shot down? The answer is NO. The "masses" ( term used on this thread which to me is disrespectful to me personally) a.k.a. Union member have the final say in the ratification vote are the ones that determine the outcome
Instead of fighting with one another start mobilizing and making sure that everyone votesin the end! You see the UNION members have the leverage to bring the Company back to the table NOT the small NC.

 

[Tim Nelson]

So you are saying that RD did not lead the highly suspect HA agreement, but he does lead the US? What makes US so special, and why would he have allowed the HA deal to happen? I assume he reviews the TA's before it is submitted, right? This isn't passing the smell taste.

So Questions Jester.

Rich Delaney is lead negotiator for all the airlines and is fully informed. He also has side bars with management from all airlines, separate from negotiations. 700UW knows this full well. Delaney himself, initiated the talks with Hawaiian airlines to graft the anti union ready reserve function into the contract when management told him it wanted more flexibilities. For 700UW to suggest that Delaney had no idea and wasn't even involved is deceitful.

regards,

 

[roabilly]

I do believe you said you are not a FSA so please quit tell us what is and isnt a waste of time. You don't work under and don't know the intent of
our contract either . Our contract is a joike. and please give it a rest about how you negotiated this and that . You negotiated yourself out of job
is what you did but yet you seem proud of that. That is what I would call a real LOSER.

If you don't realize an attorney is pulling the wool over your eyes , how would you know to call an attorney remember attorney's are like car salesmen
they can spin things to make it sound good to you but throw in a word here or there and your screwed. that's how we got screwed on our 2% raise.

B.E. Your last sentence is simply not true...

I actually reviewed the T/A as it was presented to the membership prior to ratification. The 2% raise was clearly scheduled for June 2012. What happened was the final ratified CBA had a misprint indicating the raise would occur in January of 2012. No one from either side caught the mistake and it became accepted as reality.

Further, it had absolutely nothing to do with an attorney attempting "pull the wool" over anyone's eyes. Our AGC and G/C was as upset as the membership about this! Every means of recourse was explored, and it was ultimately determined that if the language is clear in the T/A prior to ratification by the membership it supersedes all other printed materials. There was even language in the T/A that outlined just such a scenario. I read that language myself... and it was clear to me that in fact that was the case.

Let's just quit spinning reality with political rhetoric... the fact of the matter is it had nothing to do with fleet getting screwed by anyone. How many times will I have to say this... the Membership is the FINAL negotiator... if you see something in a T/A that you don't like or understand... VOTE NO! It's that simple... send them back to the table!

 

[700UW]

Ok Tim,

Since your not on the NC nor at Tempe during talks, is Delaney at EVERY Single negotiation session?

Funny you havent addressed any of the other issues, myself and others here have poised to you.