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Fleet Service apathy

I asked this question many pages ago, and never received an adequate response. It seems “Tim’s Team” remains cloaked in mystery… with the exception of Niblet… and I think one or two others that have briefly come forward here, but that’s it.

This lack of transparency is yet another “Red-Flag” in this Occupy farce. We are only getting Tim’s personal views and perceptions for the most part. Basically…Tim is a one man band pounding the drums of change just as he has for the last twenty years!

Just look at the title of his video… ‘Why am “I” running’! Further, if you watch any of these videos… you will see only Tim… and hear only Tim’s opinion!

Tim attempted to discredit my observation that educating his entire team would cost time and money… and we still may not end up with the caliber of knowledge and talent we have now! Further, when you add experience to the equation… there is no way to determine the value of these individuals that Tim just want's to dismiss because they wouldn't join him in this ludicrous occupy idea!
Roabilly I'm not telling you how to vote. I'm also not talking for everyone. We all have certain access to whatever means we use. This is not the best site to converse or engage the membership. I just feel more comfortable here. Others like FB. I believe most of the members here are very well versed and edeucated in the IAM. Strong members. I can agree to disagree with you. I have not dodged any questions. I just don't have all day to spend on the internet. Like I've stated I have two full time jobs and members livelyhood at stake. I work 24/7. I also have a family and try to squeeze them in as I can. They and the members here have been very supportive.
 
Fair question. They are on Facebook and I'm not too much. I've been in this site for several years now and it seem to suit me. They have answered your questions on Facebook and I would suggest you check it out before I answer for them. I will if they want me too, so I'll ask them and get back to you. I hope this is suffice for now. I'm a busy guy with a few grievences left to go to step three and one termination case. I check this page because its not blocked yet. Feel free to ask me direct questions and I can answer for myself faster.

Is that your polite way of saying zero, zilch, nada? Why wouldn't you know if you're running with them and endorsing them?
 
Roabilly I'm not telling you how to vote. I'm also not talking for everyone. We all have certain access to whatever means we use. This is not the best site to converse or engage the membership. I just feel more comfortable here. Others like FB. I believe most of the members here are very well versed and edeucated in the IAM. Strong members. I can agree to disagree with you. I have not dodged any questions. I just don't have all day to spend on the internet. Like I've stated I have two full time jobs and members livelyhood at stake. I work 24/7. I also have a family and try to squeeze them in as I can. They and the members here have been very supportive.

I think you mean it’s not the best site to converse or engage the membership because there are way too many knowledgeable and experienced practitioners of unionism that frequent this site!

Occupy may appeal to those who know no better, and I’m sure Tim is fully aware of this… after all... he is a man of strategy. Unfortunately, his strategy is designed to satisfy his own personal agenda.

Most of us that have been in the industry for decades know this… we have lived it!
I for one had to live on the internet for month’s to help Tim achieve his last coup of the leadership. Now… even before the N/D folks are completely acclimated… he wants me to support him in completely reversing everything I fought for!

And now… low and behold… guess who wants to be at the helm?! Personally, I have very good reason to believe that Tim was planning this even in 2008 as means to achieve his ultimate goal of being in a position of power!
 
I asked this question many pages ago, and never received an adequate response. It seems “Tim’s Team” remains cloaked in mystery… with the exception of Niblet… and I think one or two others that have briefly come forward here, but that’s it.

I would like to point out that I believe it was Dave Paz from the Occupy movement that came on here and in about three posts listed his qualifications and why he should be elected. In addition, I did get Tim to list his qualifications as well. Whether these qualifications are sufficient or not is for each member to decide, but Niblet is not the only one to post qualifications.
 
I would like to point out that I believe it was Dave Paz from the Occupy movement that came on here and in about three posts listed his qualifications and why he should be elected. In addition, I did get Tim to list his qualifications as well. Whether these qualifications are sufficient or not is for each member to decide, but Niblet is not the only one to post qualifications.

20years plus but less than 40....................5 different station of all sizes............................been here before, but just like a salmon, leave and then come home..................for you necigrad
 
20years plus but less than 40....................5 different station of all sizes............................been here before, but just like a salmon, leave and then come home..................for you necigrad

Thanks, I'll pass it along.
 
Actually, you did just that by suggesting that the pace of negotiations could be changed with new leaders...



As to me being 'sympathetic' to the company, I'm not. I'm simply pointing out the facts. If there are four people to do everything, and the workload is enough for six, or eight, or whatever, it's not going to go faster.
I certainly can make a case for the company. It's not cost effective to overstaff a department temporarily simply for negotiations. I can also argue against that by saying that the company is obligated, and if they need more staff they should hire more people.

Also, you're not the only person saying things like this. Many are implying that the NC isn't meeting with the company enough, but as far as I can tell I'm the only one that tried to find out the full situation.

necigrad,
The full situation is, historically the company has dragged their feet in negotiating new collective bargaining agreements, with any labor group on the property. In my 30 + years with the company this has remained a constant. The situation was realized long before you went to find out what was going on. The company will sell you a list of reasons why they can't seem to come to an agreement. The bottom line is they are in it for the shareholders not the employees. Again, my point is there are some who have insinuated and want others to believe, a change in leadership will have an adverse effect on our negotiations. Based on the history of this company, regarding negotiations, this insinuation is a political scare tactic and simply not true. Going forward, this insinuation, needs to be shelved and filed as meritless.
ograc
 
Dear Mister Roabilly,

While you are looking for the "Big Picture", how about your own "big picture" with my questions I posed to you as for a list of New Direction team accomplishments during these nearly 4 years? And if it does not require the advice of legal assistance, what's your reason for your continued robust defense of "Car 54"? There wouldn't be money involved, would there?

So Resubmits Jester.


jester I have come to the conclusion that either you are being ignored or no one has an answer
 
I asked this question many pages ago, and never received an adequate response. It seems “Tim’s Team” remains cloaked in mystery… with the exception of Niblet… and I think one or two others that have briefly come forward here, but that’s it.

This lack of transparency is yet another “Red-Flag” in this Occupy farce. We are only getting Tim’s personal views and perceptions for the most part. Basically…Tim is a one man band pounding the drums of change just as he has for the last twenty years!

Just look at the title of his video… ‘Why am “I” running’! Further, if you watch any of these videos… you will see only Tim… and hear only Tim’s opinion!

Tim attempted to discredit my observation that educating his entire team would cost time and money… and we still may not end up with the caliber of knowledge and talent we have now! Further, when you add experience to the equation… there is no way to determine the value of these individuals that Tim just want's to dismiss because they wouldn't join him in this ludicrous occupy idea!

roabilly,
the members are being asked to support a team cloaked in mystery. They are being asked to support a team put together, not on qualifications, but on where a candidate is located. With the percieved political strategy this will obtain votes. The US members are being mislead by this team that there are divisions within the district between UA and US members. They are being mislead that a vote for Occuppy 141 will remedy this "percieved" notion. Smoke and mirrors. When your team is short on experience and qualifications I guess you resort to this. The true choice in the upcoming election is between the ND team and The Leadership for Progress Team. Both of which have experienced and qualified candidates on the team. Would you agree?
ograc
 
Can anyone on here tell me if they remember the 2005 contract? Or the T/A that was voted in. These agreements meant that we as fleet gave the company the right to outsource as many fleet jobs as they wanted. Now I know you won't here anyone on here admit to voting for it now, but they both were voted in by the members. And before anyone says that clt and phl voted for it, and sold out the small stations. Not True!! They actually voted it down. No matter who we had as president right now, your not going to stop something that was voted in, no matter how much everyone on here wants to blame Delaney. You could arbitrate all day people and lose every case. Because it was passed by the members. For those of you that believe differently, then your speaking for political reasons only!!
 
4 years ago the ND 08 team won the election. They put in a whole new team. Did they make some mistakes putting in a whole new slate? The answer is yes!! Some of those people should have never been voted in. But there was for the most part some really good people voted in IMO. I say get rid of the bad apples and learn from that, but leave the good ones in. Voting for a complete new slate, we will be right back here 4 years from now talking about the bad ones on that slate. We will be spinning our wheels. Anyone that cares to take their time and see what kind of experience some of these guys have, but yet they're running for Agc, and telling you they're there for the membership!! Yeah right!!! You can't be there for the members when you don't even know or have participated in step 2,s or 3,s or some hasn't even been stewards. Wake up people. You heard the saying " be careful what you wish for" well maybe some of you on here will get your wish if some of these people get in!! How about the people that are running for agc,s in phl, clt, and Phx, tell us what kind of experience you have. Not in organizing either, but in grievance hearings. You won't be organizing as a agc.
 
Can anyone on here tell me if they remember the 2005 contract? Or the T/A that was voted in. These agreements meant that we as fleet gave the company the right to outsource as many fleet jobs as they wanted. Now I know you won't here anyone on here admit to voting for it now, but they both were voted in by the members. And before anyone says that clt and phl voted for it, and sold out the small stations. Not True!! They actually voted it down. No matter who we had as president right now, your not going to stop something that was voted in, no matter how much everyone on here wants to blame Delaney. You could arbitrate all day people and lose every case. Because it was passed by the members. For those of you that believe differently, then your speaking for political reasons only!!
In defense of the members, and the leadership team that was in place at the time, the 2005 agreement was not true contract negotiations. It was a final offer, proposed by the company, and subsequently accepted by the membership, under bankruptcy law. Similar to negotiating with a gun to your head. Turn this down and the company goes to the judge to abrograte the entire existing contract. As one from an outline station, I understand and respect the fact, we simply had no other choice, for the greater good. The alternative was not an option. I believe to this day, given the circumstances, we played the cards that were dealt to us. That being said, it's a new day, the company has emerged from bankruptcy and returned to profitabilty. It's time to regain some of which has been lost. It is time to realize our fellow sisters and brothers, throughout the system, are not the enemy. We need to unite for the common good.
ograc
 
In defense of the members, and the leadership team that was in place at the time, the 2005 agreement was not true contract negotiations. It was a final offer, proposed by the company, and subsequently accepted by the membership, under bankruptcy law. Similar to negotiating with a gun to your head. Turn this down and the company goes to the judge to abrograte the entire existing contract. As one from an outline station, I understand and respect the fact, we simply had no other choice, for the greater good. The alternative was not an option. I believe to this day, given the circumstances, we played the cards that were dealt to us. That being said, it's a new day, the company has emerged from bankruptcy and returned to profitabilty. It's time to regain some of which has been lost. It is time to realize our fellow sisters and brothers, throughout the system, are not the enemy. We need to unite for the common good.
ograc
 
Your exactly right!!!! We had no choice!! But what your refusing to say, and maybe it's for political reasons, is what we voted in back then when we had no choice, we are still getting screwed by it today!!! There is a reason why the company put those cities protected until Dexember 31st 2011. Because on January 1, 2012, that protection was lost. I said a long time ago, this company can get rid of as many fleet jobs as they want. It may be a new time for you! But not for the company, until we get a agreement to protect our jobs. Dosent matter what Rich, Tim, or Karen, tells the membership they can do about it. They Can't!!! It's in writing and voted in by the members, that the company can do exactly what they are doing. Some of us warned of this day a long time ago, when all this was getting voted in!
 
Can anyone on here tell me if they remember the 2005 contract? Or the T/A that was voted in. These agreements meant that we as fleet gave the company the right to outsource as many fleet jobs as they wanted. Now I know you won't here anyone on here admit to voting for it now, but they both were voted in by the members. And before anyone says that clt and phl voted for it, and sold out the small stations. Not True!! They actually voted it down. No matter who we had as president right now, your not going to stop something that was voted in, no matter how much everyone on here wants to blame Delaney. You could arbitrate all day people and lose every case. Because it was passed by the members. For those of you that believe differently, then your speaking for political reasons only!!

You seemed to have missed the discussion... no one is blaming "Car 54" for the outsourcing, the issue arises when was the outsourcing conducted ahead of schedule, and for all the bloviating about defending the FSAs who were unfairly and rather rudely removed from the property... nothing. No explanations, little communications, and barely a whimper... however, quick to declare some victory by having the company fund those displaces workers pensions for a few months.

Furthermore, "Car 54" spoke a mean game about challenging the Attendance Policy when it was foisted upon the Membership, and yet.... 3 years later... nothing once again. "Car 54" wants to take credit for the HAL agreement which basically treats the P/T membership as non-union Delta employees with greatly reduced wage scales, Ready Reserve, and the part-time employees must even pay for their own parking. "Car 54" still has a huge back log of grievances going back before he was elected, and yet continues to give US the short straw on AGCs to handle the job.

And for the record, yes, I voted for the TA, even though it was less than ideal, in large part becuase it gave nearly all of West a very sizable pay increase, even for those who would be displaced in the process... pay people an extra $10,000 a year, and most West people would move for those jobs. The agreement also provided 4 years of recall rights for those who wanted to consider another career in the event of a lay-off vs. the 3 months under the East contract? Case in point, the huge down sizing of LAS in past years, and based upon my discussions with former LAS agents, most of those displaced have taken positions elsewhere in the system, especially the full-timers, and some are still coming back nearly 3 years later. I doubt people would have picked-up and left for a $10/hour job. Of course, let us remember in the case of the TWU contract, the reduction of flights and the subsequent reduction in staff would have provided no protections for those people, as with America West closure of the CMH hub nearly a decade ago.

And a special shout-out to my Dear Mr. Roabilly... how's the list of New Direction teams successes during the past 3 years coming along, and did you figure your public disclosure as to any relationship with the current leadership?

So Prods Jester.
 
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