mike33
Veteran
- Nov 7, 2007
- 2,252
- 1,128
is that really why they accepted it?.....really?
I don't believe its there for that reason. But ur opinion counts.
Fleet Service apathy
- Thread starter ograc
- Start date
is that really why they accepted it?.....really?
I don't believe its there for that reason. But ur opinion counts.
- Banned
- #1,157
Why don't we get someone who was on the HA NC to explain it?
And how is it any different than having two people on your slate who cant hold office?
Your taking the vote away from the membership and appointing two people to fill their slots. That's just wrong, that's not democracy, that's a dictator.
And you hid this fact until someone called you out on it.
And how is it any different than having two people on your slate who cant hold office?
Your taking the vote away from the membership and appointing two people to fill their slots. That's just wrong, that's not democracy, that's a dictator.
And you hid this fact until someone called you out on it.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Mike,
I'm sure it passed because of the same fundamental reasons why Canale's terrible contract passed at US AIRWAYS. I don't think any of the US AIRWAYS workers are much satisfied at being the only group out of profit sharing and having 40% of their pension ripped off, or not having any snap backs like other ground unions, or falling farther and farther and farther behind ticket agents or having no protections for several stations. It's actually quite telling that the ramp got union 4 years before the upstairs and had the same pay and benefits, but over the course of only 10 years, the upstairs has better scope where only rampers are being tossed out of stations; better holidays, vacations, full sick pay, better money, etc. Yet, the ramp contract passed. Is it because rampers are stuupid? Of course not. Some blame the membership for having the union leadership finally beat them down. I don't blame the members, I blame the leadership who continually beats the members down. And even though the members at Hawaiian finally voted for a once rejected contract, they still don't deserve to have part timers getting pissed on getting half of full time wages. They still don't deserve to be paying for their parking just to come to work. Delaney was wrong for supporting management on that and unfortunately you can't see that because I'm not your choice of President. Why can't you admit that it is inherently wrong for a union president to sign a contract that hammers part timers like that?
WHen folks say "They deserve this leadership" or "They deserve to get contracted out because they voted on this piece of crap contract", such statements are not only insensitive but not reflective to the truth, i.e., no matter who someone voted, they still don't deserve being treated second best. And just because myself and the great majority of us gave Delaney a shot doesn't mean that myself or anyone deserves the incapableness at the negotiations table that we have received over the past 4 years.
I blame the Hawaiian negotiations solely with the leadership and Delaney. And I'm sure your company is very interested in having part timers get half pay at US AIRWAYS or maybe getting Delaney to agree to have you pay for your own parking. My presumption is that management saw that he didn't have a problem with it at Hawaiian so why would he at US AIRWAYS?
Onward!
- Banned
- #1,159
The upstairs gave up reservation jobs and baggage service, and only a small portion of reservations ever came back in house. Pit was closed.
And they have no pension what so ever.
Guess you dont remember mainline express?
And they never got a transition agreement after the merger, they have two unions representing them. The company threatened with a vote and the IBT and CWA got scared. They are still working under the 2005 Chapter 11 CBA.
So stop with the deflection and post the real facts.
And they have no pension what so ever.
Guess you dont remember mainline express?
And they never got a transition agreement after the merger, they have two unions representing them. The company threatened with a vote and the IBT and CWA got scared. They are still working under the 2005 Chapter 11 CBA.
So stop with the deflection and post the real facts.
Tim,
Interesting post, you speak of the fact that we didn't get snap backs. Of course you remember that the first TA had the snap backs in there?
mike33
Veteran
- Nov 7, 2007
- 2,252
- 1,128
I will ask Delaney myself.......i hear he is coming here soon.....
I believe the real problem is the inequity ratio of P/T to F/T. Most P/T don't really care as long as they can fly at a discount.......that ratio needs to improve the other way.....its a leftover headache from the old usairways and HP. Beat that into the company first and you can solve a lot of contract BS..... nobody is talking about that....not even you?
Tim Nelson
Veteran
700,
700, who is taking any vote away? I'm going to be 'adding' two individuals on our slate for the membership to vote on in June.
After June, no matter who the president is, the INTL has given more spots. Unfortunately, they didn't include those spots in this vote although I wanted them to. Again, no matter who the President is, the President will have to appoint and fill spots between elections.
What I have said is that my first two appointments will be continental rampers AND they will have to run for office and be voted on during the normal rotation PER BYLAWS. FWIW: I'm certain that Delaney will also be appointing continental rampers since the additional spots were a DIRECT result of their membership. It makes no sense to appoint those new vacancies to additional US AIRWAYS members or subsidary United members. Continental rampers need to represent continental rampers. I have no idea why you can't seem to grasp this because this is the same thing the IAM did when US AIRWAYS fleet service became members. Immediately, after the fleet service group became members, Bill Chandleee, Tom M, Gerry M and a few others were appointed, and each of them had to run for election.
700, anytime someone writes more than 4 words, you seem to have a very difficult time comprehending. Again, if I am such a dope 700, then why in the world did the IAM put me in a leadership role? Why did they give me the "Certificate of Appreciation" in recognition of valuable contributions on behalf of District 141 in servicing and assisting the membership in a professional way?
If I am not to be trusted, then why did Roabily just take my word, 5 months ago, for things I said? All of the sudden, I'm running against Delaney and Roabily paints me as a Bull Crap artist that is full of hot air. It's called politics and when I step on a sacred thing, people flip like pancakes. Cripes, if I'm just a big con artist and not to be trusted, then why did the masses endorse me with unanimously US AIRWAYS Hub endorsements? The masses know me best so what it is 700? Are the masses a bunch of dumb arses? or do I have their respect and trust? I have been flat out preaching my message so why have those who know me best responding with support for me?
Onward!
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Most part timers don't really care as long as they can just fly? Really? The part timers I know have families and want either full time or want to be treated as good as full time with the same wages and benefits. At US AIRWAYS, I think we need to raise the pension contribution up for part timers so that it is equal with full timers. It never made any sense for me that a part timers hourly contribution should be about half the hourly contribution than full time. At hawaiian, we have to quit the Delaneyism and stop paying part timers half of full time. And, no matter full time or part time, we have to force the company to pay for parking. Delaney needs to quit signing lame contracts that force members to pay a portion of their parking. Again, he's a super softee for sure.
Mike33, the first thing we need to 'as you say' beat into the company is respect. Let's try that first, ok? We are the only union where management announces layoffs and doesn't even bother telling our reps. And it really doesn't matter which airline. At United, the OAK members walked into work last month and were told by management that the station is closing. Sure, Delaney threw a Bi&ch fit and was upset that management doesn't even bother with him over station closings but why should they since he is so incredibly soft that he has absolutely no respect from management. So, let's focus on respect before we think we can 'beat into management' anything else that is worthy. As far as ratio's, delaney doesn't care one bit though so we may have to 'beat it into Delaney's brain' that ratios do matter. At Hawaiian, he decided to incorporate brand new language for ready reserve part time that doesn't even factor into the already high 45% part time ratio he signed on to. So, I think we need to beat a few things into our union first before we can even gain respect from management. Our union leadership is like the keystone cops and there is a reason why 2% doesn't mean 2% and a reason why fleet is falling farther and farther behind customer service.
At any rate, when I came to PHX last month and you came up to introduce yourself to me, and you were alot more respectful to me than your post on here. Delaney was the guy standing behind you and he was there. Quite telling that our president flies to PHX all the time and negotiates there and you guys don't even know who he is because he doesn't have the common decency to bother stopping into the breakrooms when he's in town. Me and you have been having this discussion about how he hammered Hawaiian folks for a couple months now so why didn't you ask him when he was standing right there, if you know what he looks like. My feeling is that it is now political season so I'm sure he may want to be seen a bit more. He will change his actions during this season.
Onward!
mike33
Veteran
- Nov 7, 2007
- 2,252
- 1,128
Jester
Veteran
Mike,
That's complete BS... we have many PT agents in PHX who refuse to become abused as leads, so they are picking-up hours all over the place in order to pay the bills at home. In fact, the weird thing is that some of these "new" PT people transferred in from East cities with FT positions, after being furloughed from a few years ago from West stations. As I am told, they accepted a PT position in PHX because of the attitudes they experienced working with East FSAs and Managers who treated them poorly because they were West. Now how do you think you would feel if after 10 years with the company, you were told you that you were worth half the pay as a co-worker with the same DOH, even though you worked just as many hours but lack the official label of "full-time" status?
You are complaining about the company not having enough full-time positions, but you ignore the operational schedule which dictates the number of part-time and full-time positions to be offered. So you want the company to change its entire flight bank system for a rolling bank with equal number of flights spaced evenly throughout the day at all stations, much the same way of SWA operations? Good luck with that one! You might be better off asking Car-54 why he screwed the part-timers at HAL, and don't let him get away with the "That's-What-The-Membership-Voted" bromide while ignoring his complicity in offering the TA in the first place!
So Corrects Jester.
IAM Informer
Advanced
- Nov 29, 2011
- 107
- 65
700
in reference to the 2 CO folks on Tim's ticket. How is Tim to know if Delaney is or isn't going to sign a waiver to allow CO to run for office
after all it was past practice in this district to do such a thing and i thought you knew that since you seem to think you know everything IAM . but
anyway it is Rich Delaney's decision if the CO folks will get to stay on the ticket or not. I personally think they should remain since the IAM is so democratic
at least that's what they were pimping in the UA election so why shouldn't they have one of there own on the E-board.
in reference to the 2 CO folks on Tim's ticket. How is Tim to know if Delaney is or isn't going to sign a waiver to allow CO to run for office
after all it was past practice in this district to do such a thing and i thought you knew that since you seem to think you know everything IAM . but
anyway it is Rich Delaney's decision if the CO folks will get to stay on the ticket or not. I personally think they should remain since the IAM is so democratic
at least that's what they were pimping in the UA election so why shouldn't they have one of there own on the E-board.
- Banned
- #1,168
Delaney doesnt have the authority to violate or waive a bylaw.
It is the S/Ts responsibility to declare someone eligible or ineligible, not the President, and this will end up on Mike Winpinsiger's desk, mark my words. Mike handles bylaws and internal disputes at the Grand Lodge.
It is the S/Ts responsibility to declare someone eligible or ineligible, not the President, and this will end up on Mike Winpinsiger's desk, mark my words. Mike handles bylaws and internal disputes at the Grand Lodge.
UnitedWeStand
Member
- Dec 9, 2011
- 72
- 42
Please educate me. Tell me where the Constitution or the district bylaws give a PDGC the latitude to sign a waiver when it pertains to union elections. The DOL makes sure that all rules are followed as written. Please give any instance that backs up what you say has been done in the past.
UnitedWeStand
Member
- Dec 9, 2011
- 72
- 42
Mr. Nelson
I went back through the 2010 posts. I did not find you posting anything about the inequities of Hawaiian. Their contract was ratified in Jan. of 2010. There was an election in 2010. Why is it an issue for you now that you are running and not then. It doesn't make sense to me when you are the outspoken one no matter who is in charge
I went back through the 2010 posts. I did not find you posting anything about the inequities of Hawaiian. Their contract was ratified in Jan. of 2010. There was an election in 2010. Why is it an issue for you now that you are running and not then. It doesn't make sense to me when you are the outspoken one no matter who is in charge
