Fleet Service apathy

[freedom]

necigrad,
Based on recent developments, this is a classic case of failure to negotiate in good faith... IMO. The company is not the least bit interested in agreeing to merger protection language for US Fleet under a LOA that will restrict their agenda of a merger with AA. IMO... this is why we have been dancing with the company for the past 6 months in negotiations. Your point of the TWU agreeing to fair and equal being defined as date of hire, with the US and AMA should be duly noted going forward.
ograc

I think the most imporant issue in any merger is obviously DATE OF HIRE , for all employee's ... that's fair for everyone , no one can say different ..

The next thing we need to look out for our are field stations ... in any merger there will be layoffs and downsizing ...but we need to make sure that between the two contracts , TWU and IAM, that any field station closures conicide with which ever contract has the more stringent rules as far as outsourcing field stations go ... ummm speaking of layoffs , we should seek to extend the right of recall to at LEAST 5 years for our workers and give them the option to move around if necessary ... let's also make sure we don't have anything crazy like the 60 day rule from the old US air days where they could stip you of your payscale ....

I for one don't have a problem merging with AA ... i think our company can bring much needed change to theirs , and we can also bring a new corporate culture to their workers ..

If we end up TWU , that will also be fine with me as that i used to be TWU before anyways ..

 

[ograc]

I think the most imporant issue in any merger is obviously DATE OF HIRE , for all employee's ... that's fair for everyone , no one can say different ..

The next thing we need to look out for our are field stations ... in any merger there will be layoffs and downsizing ...but we need to make sure that between the two contracts , TWU and IAM, that any field station closures conicide with which ever contract has the more stringent rules as far as outsourcing field stations go ... ummm speaking of layoffs , we should seek to extend the right of recall to at LEAST 5 years for our workers and give them the option to move around if necessary ... let's also make sure we don't have anything crazy like the 60 day rule from the old US air days where they could stip you of your payscale ....

I for one don't have a problem merging with AA ... i think our company can bring much needed change to theirs , and we can also bring a new corporate culture to their workers ..

If we end up TWU , that will also be fine with me as that i used to be TWU before anyways ..

freedom,
In the event of a merger, I wish we could choose and be subject to the best of the IAM and TWU contracts. Unfortunately, that will not be the case. IMO...a merger with AA will initiate a representation election between the IAM and TWU. The membership, on either side, will be subject to the CBA of the union elected. IMO... based on the number of members on either side, I do not see any advantages for the IAM members at US if the TWU were to win the election. If there are, based on the said senario, I wish someone would submit those advantages.
ograc

 

[mike33]

freedom,
In the event of a merger, I wish we could choose and be subject to the best of the IAM and TWU contracts. Unfortunately, that will not be the case. IMO...a merger with AA will initiate a representation election between the IAM and TWU. The membership, on either side, will be subject to the CBA of the union elected. IMO... based on the number of members on either side, I do not see any advantages for the IAM members at US if the TWU were to win the election. If there are, based on the said senario, I wish someone would submit those advantages.
ograc

Maybe the TWA employees would appreciate date of hire. If there are any left because they were very senior


Store that in the IAM memory bank for support

 

[pjirish317]

freedom,
In the event of a merger, I wish we could choose and be subject to the best of the IAM and TWU contracts. Unfortunately, that will not be the case. IMO...a merger with AA will initiate a representation election between the IAM and TWU. The membership, on either side, will be subject to the CBA of the union elected. IMO... based on the number of members on either side, I do not see any advantages for the IAM members at US if the TWU were to win the election. If there are, based on the said senario, I wish someone would submit those advantages.
ograc

ograc,

You know this to be an outright LIE! We would not be subject to AA's TWU CBA any more that AA would be subject to our CBA after an election. It is the winning union's job to enforce the losing union's CBA until such time as a transional agreement is negotiated, agreed upon, and ratified. Then and only then will the losing membership be subject to the winning union's MODIFIED transitional agreement. Really, where do you get this stuff?

Because by your above statement, the AWA Fleet employees should have been folded right into our CBA after the TWU so graciously "let" the IAM represent those employees. Why did it take almost 3 years after the merger to accomplish getting them folded into our CBA?

 

[saywhat]

Purely speculation here but I keep seeing on various threads that the agreeements with the 3 AA Unions call for the TWU to keep ramp and the IAM to keep MTC. I am wondering if the agreement stipulates no election and fold the respective members into their new Unions. I further speculate that the ramp,
mtc and fa's will be given the same proposal as given to AA in the near future with the same said stipulations. The main reason I believe this is that these contracts negotiated by DP and AA are supposedly going to go in effect soon after the merger.

 

[roabilly]

OK… ladies and gentlemen… the plot thickens! I was recently contacted by our local Grievance Committee Chairman regarding a new development in the possible integration of the AA and US fleet groups.

For those who are not aware… congress just passed a bill entitled…

‘FAA REAUTHORIZATION AND REFORM ACT OF 2011’
(- H.R. 658,)

In this legislation, a ruling requiring an amendment to the Railway Labor Act was passed. In essence what this legislation means is this… it will require at least a 50% interest in a total workforce to trigger a union election election. This up from the 35% required in the past.

This new law would be applicable to all Representation Elections including those that would be triggered by a merger of carriers with separate unions representing a single class and craft!

What does this mean for us as IAM represented employees? Well… it could mean that there would be NO election after a merger due to the numeric advantage AA has on us. We do not have the numbers to reach the 50% needed. This could mean that we would automatically become TWU!

Time will tell… maybe Occupy can save us from this boogie man as well!

 

[Jester]

I think the most imporant issue in any merger is obviously DATE OF HIRE , for all employee's ... that's fair for everyone , no one can say different ..

Long time, Freedom... chatters were wondering if I eliminated one of my several names. 😛h34r:

Back to the topic at hand... there is more "fairness" than simple Date of Hire (just ask the pilots on their thread), and what is "fair" is often times a matter of opinion. For example, if there is a merger, then there will be almost certainly, "right sizing" the combined airline through the elimination of hubs and downsizing stations, and depending upon the CBA in place "bump and flush" might be perfectly legal for displaced agents. Is that "fair" as it is based upon date of hire? Would "fairness" consider some form of fences? Would "fairness" consider some relative seniority? Maybe even "fairness" of career expectations of a failed company versus a viable company?

So Considers Jester.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Maybe the TWA employees would appreciate date of hire. If there are any left because they were very senior

There are plenty of them left,working on a crew with two former TWA guys this morning as a matter of fact.

 

[Jester]

There are plenty of then left,working on a crew with two former TWA guys this morning.

And how long did they have under the CBA to be recalled? I was under the impression that AA wasn't hiring any new FSAs for awhile, as the company was going through its furloughs. With US, if one is furloughed, and refuses a transfer, then that person has 4 years of recall rights without losing seniority or pay level. Does the TWU not have limits for recall?

So Questions Jester.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Current contract provides for ten years of recall rights.Everyone from TWA that wanted to come back has been back since early '05.Recall list has been exhausted for quite awhile now.

As for not hiring,there have been scores hired off the street the past few years.Love the new part timers who think they know something after a month on the field...

 

[ChockJockey]

What does this mean for us as IAM represented employees? Well… it could mean that there would be NO election after a merger due to the numeric advantage AA has on us. We do not have the numbers to reach the 50% needed. This could mean that we would automatically become TWU!

What if a majority of AA's people want to ditch the TWU?

 

[ograc]

ograc,

You know this to be an outright LIE! We would not be subject to AA's TWU CBA any more that AA would be subject to our CBA after an election. It is the winning union's job to enforce the losing union's CBA until such time as a transional agreement is negotiated, agreed upon, and ratified. Then and only then will the losing membership be subject to the winning union's MODIFIED transitional agreement. Really, where do you get this stuff?

Because by your above statement, the AWA Fleet employees should have been folded right into our CBA after the TWU so graciously "let" the IAM represent those employees. Why did it take almost 3 years after the merger to accomplish getting them folded into our CBA?

pjirish317,

You are correct that immediately following the election results the winning union's responsibilty is the enforcement of the existing CBA of the losing union. My point was that if the TWU were negotiating either the new inclusive CBA or TA I have my concerns about seniority integration as it pertains to former US IAM represented fleet. You are correct this process could take years. My post should have been more clearly worded. I did not mean to insinuate Fleet employees would be folded into CBAs immediately following the election. In time, however, it will happen.

ograc

 

[charlie Brown]

Roabilly
I am now hearing that the new law may not apply to those work groups already under a CBA. So maybe we are still good for a election to take place. Either way, we still must get lots of AA employees to come our way. And it still dosent make the seniority issue any less important. I will keep you posted on what I find out.

 

[roabilly]

What if a majority of AA's people want to ditch the TWU?

We would need to start an organizational drive to get enough cards signed to support a 50% interest in a change from TWU to the IAM! This would be 50% of the combined F/S group from both carriers showing interest in such a change.

Personally... I'm for keeping the IAM and the New Direction!

 

[roabilly]

Roabilly
I am now hearing that the new law may not apply to those work groups already under a CBA. So maybe we are still good for a election to take place. Either way, we still must get lots of AA employees to come our way. And it still dosent make the seniority issue any less important. I will keep you posted on what I find out.

Thanks Charlie…

I was up to 3 AM looking for the entire language and text of the bill to determine the ramifications of just such a scenario. I was unable to find the bill in its entirety, it must be huge!

If anyone can find this bill in its entirety along with the specific language regarding Union Representation Elections along with the Amendment… please post your findings… or provide a link.

I agree with your assessment regarding seniority... in this Industry it's EVERYTHING!