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Fleet Service apathy

The agreement with the AA unions is supposedly a 5% immediate raise, and 3% raises for the next two years, then some sorta pay scale set up against Delta and UA. Sounds like a sorta pay parity thing unfolding. That would put the ramp base pay at about $22 for AA which would be a bankrupt agreement and a true insult to any US airways employee. This was the talk in the AA breakroom in ORD yesterday that I attended but I will admit, it is breakroom talk but seemed to be validated by some shop stewards present. Time will tell. At any rate, although setting up a payscale similar to Delta's might work with a unionized Delta pilot group, setting it up with a non union pay scale at Delta is HUGELY risky and unacceptable. And FWIW: All after 3 years of botched talks, $22 is presently all that is on the table at UA for the New Direction. For fairness reasons, I think north of $24 for US AIRWAYS in imputed pay through 2011, and job/work guarantees would be a starting baseline for negotiations in 2012- , other improvements implied. It will be interesting to see if part of the TWU deal was to keep the 'sacredity seniority clause'. With the seniority problems that US AIRWAYS is dealing with in the Pilot talks, I would assume that management might have addressed this with the TWU or may be more willing to address this with the IAM. Time will tell. Let's face it, there is alot we don't know about this new union deal with the TWU or if their members will even be voting on it.

At any rate, other things you have said are not legally sound. US AIRWAYS management can not get involved in representational disputes so it can't bar any group from an election. Let's not jump to any conclusions as you do and let's discover what exactly US AIRWAYS promised. All we presently know is that they have signed on to retain the maintenance base in TUL for the MX at AA, and have promised to retain 1,200 additional rampers although I don't claim to know who or what represents these additional 1,200 rampers.

Unfortunately, at this time, the IAM 141 is the only group on the US AIRWAYS property that has 'continual lay offs' and increasing of contracting out of your work. We must hold a FIRM line and make sure that our union doesn't go down the same path that it has went down at UA/CO merger that has buried the UA/CO members in transition talks with no raises in sight and loose definitions of 'work'. Remember, it is very important to watch the UA/CO merger unfold since it is about 3 years in front of this proposed one with AA/US.

In ANY CASE we have to guard against using a Bankrupt AA ramp contract as a bar in IAM talks. We should also look forward to an election but we would need about 3,000 cards from AA ramp servicemen to trigger it [that's possible and may be very likely]. I'm in ORD with about 2,000 AA rampers and I know most of the key guys, frequent their breakrooms always, and I think they are open to discovery. And if you were in the breakroom at AA you wouldn't have ran your mouth about any horse trading. I got NO INDICATION that the TWU is wanting to part ways with MX or Rampers and will MOST LIKELY want to be "All in". If the TWU did in fact protect the TUL maintenance base from closing, I seriously doubt the IAM would be in a position to horse trade and keep the higher paying MX. Time will tell but I will admit that "union horse trading' is something that these unions have done before [America West Fleet]. The IAM stands to lose 10,000 so although it may be reasonable for you to conclude that the IAM may want to horse trade, I would hope the matter could be settled with a representational election for workers to decide, and NO horse trading.

At any rate, all unions need to stick to their guns and not sign anything that isn't fair.

regards,

Tim,

That is one of the more unbiased opinions you have posted lately… do you intend to continue with this Occupy fiasco in light of all these recent developments?

What is your opinion on the FAA legislation? Will it be driver in this process?
 
The agreement with the AA unions is supposedly a 5% immediate raise, and 3% raises for the next two years, then some sorta pay scale set up against Delta and UA. Sounds like a sorta pay parity thing unfolding. That would put the ramp base pay at about $22 for AA which would be a bankrupt agreement and a true insult to any US airways employee. This was the talk in the AA breakroom in ORD yesterday that I attended but I will admit, it is breakroom talk but seemed to be validated by some shop stewards present. Time will tell. At any rate, although setting up a payscale similar to Delta's might work with a unionized Delta pilot group, setting it up with a non union pay scale at Delta is HUGELY risky and unacceptable. And FWIW: All after 3 years of botched talks, $22 is presently all that is on the table at UA for the New Direction. For fairness reasons, I think north of $24 for US AIRWAYS in imputed pay through 2011, and job/work guarantees would be a starting baseline for negotiations in 2012- , other improvements implied. It will be interesting to see if part of the TWU deal was to keep the 'sacredity seniority clause'. With the seniority problems that US AIRWAYS is dealing with in the Pilot talks, I would assume that management might have addressed this with the TWU or may be more willing to address this with the IAM. Time will tell. Let's face it, there is alot we don't know about this new union deal with the TWU or if their members will even be voting on it.

At any rate, other things you have said are not legally sound. US AIRWAYS management can not get involved in representational disputes so it can't bar any group from an election. Let's not jump to any conclusions as you do and let's discover what exactly US AIRWAYS promised. All we presently know is that they have signed on to retain the maintenance base in TUL for the MX at AA, and have promised to retain 1,200 additional rampers although I don't claim to know who or what represents these additional 1,200 rampers.

Unfortunately, at this time, the IAM 141 is the only group on the US AIRWAYS property that has 'continual lay offs' and increasing of contracting out of your work. We must hold a FIRM line and make sure that our union doesn't go down the same path that it has went down at UA/CO merger that has buried the UA/CO members in transition talks with no raises in sight and loose definitions of 'work'. Remember, it is very important to watch the UA/CO merger unfold since it is about 3 years in front of this proposed one with AA/US.

In ANY CASE we have to guard against using a Bankrupt AA ramp contract as a bar in IAM talks. We should also look forward to an election but we would need about 3,000 cards from AA ramp servicemen to trigger it [that's possible and may be very likely]. I'm in ORD with about 2,000 AA rampers and I know most of the key guys, frequent their breakrooms always, and I think they are open to discovery. And if you were in the breakroom at AA you wouldn't have ran your mouth about any horse trading. I got NO INDICATION that the TWU is wanting to part ways with MX or Rampers and will MOST LIKELY want to be "All in". If the TWU did in fact protect the TUL maintenance base from closing, I seriously doubt the IAM would be in a position to horse trade and keep the higher paying MX. Time will tell but I will admit that "union horse trading' is something that these unions have done before [America West Fleet]. The IAM stands to lose 10,000 so although it may be reasonable for you to conclude that the IAM may want to horse trade, I would hope the matter could be settled with a representational election for workers to decide, and NO horse trading.

At any rate, all unions need to stick to their guns and not sign anything that isn't fair.

regards,

Tim,

I want to make a few points. AA ramp is at $21+ an hour now so 5%+3%+3% would put them at $23.50+ an hour. Regarding whether a vote would happen my assumption is that DP"s contract stipulates no vote. No legal issues if TWU and IAM accept the terms.

I am not advocating this scenario, I just have a gut feeling on this.
 
i agree with you saywhat i have a feeling its going to come down like that too
 
i agree with you saywhat i have a feeling its going to come down like that too

The biggest obstacles in any merger are…shareholder/board/creditor approval…labor/union approval…and finally DOJ approval. How many of these items could be checked off of this list in just a number of weeks? My guess is TWO!
 
Tim,

I want to make a few points. AA ramp is at $21+ an hour now so 5%+3%+3% would put them at $23.50+ an hour. Regarding whether a vote would happen my assumption is that DP"s contract stipulates no vote. No legal issues if TWU and IAM accept the terms.

I am not advocating this scenario, I just have a gut feeling on this.
It would be about $22.20 which is entirely unacceptable. We would need to do all we could to make sure the IAM leadership wouldn't horse trade your group for $$$. What we do know is that the TWU horse traded the America West to the IAM for $500,000. That is why it is very important to have a District President that doesn't horse trade.

When I was doing the Airtran campaign, Delaney wanted to horse trade the airtran folks to the TWU for unspecified things. I balked. He had RR talk to me and wanted me to stand down on the airtran folks but I didn't since I knew the TWU would hose them. At the convention, RR tried to BS the airtran folks but they stuck with me and I made it very clear to RR that we were going to get an election for the airtran folks and wouldn't have ANY need in horse trading. No thanks to Delaney. I stood up for them and I will stand up for the US AIRWAYS folks and refuse to horse trade ANY OF YOU into a bankrupt AMR contract.

Will the District President and the Eboard have influence. YES! And that is yet another reason why no US AIRWAYS employee wants to play games with a United airline President who not only could care less about your senioriry, profit sharing, etc but also has screwed over his own United members by lying to all of them when he scrapped his United talks and supported management into transition talks. 3 years after the merger, and Delaney hasn't gotten his members one single pay raise. Tell the truth SayWhat and tell the US AIRWAYS members how Delaney has lied to his own United members going through a merger that is 3 years ahead of any presumed AA/US one.

Delaney couldn't and won't give a rat's arse for any US AIRWAYS members. You can Bank on that one!

As aside, the TWU just announced that it will allow their rampers to vote on US AIRWAYS contractual terms offer. Not sure, but it's starting to look like there may be a complete exhaustive agreement.

Onward Occupyiam141.com
 
id say one roa! but you could be right may be 2 but I dont think anything happening til may be btwn june and sept
 
It would be about $22.20 which is entirely unacceptable. We would need to do all we could to make sure the IAM leadership wouldn't horse trade your group for $$$. What we do know is that the TWU horse traded the America West to the IAM for $500,000. That is why it is very important to have a District President that doesn't horse trade.

When I was doing the Airtran campaign, Delaney wanted to horse trade the airtran folks to the TWU for unspecified things. I balked. He had RR talk to me and wanted me to stand down on the airtran folks but I didn't since I knew the TWU would hose them. At the convention, RR tried to BS the airtran folks but they stuck with me and I made it very clear to RR that we were going to get an election for the airtran folks and wouldn't have ANY need in horse trading. No thanks to Delaney. I stood up for them and I will stand up for the US AIRWAYS folks and refuse to horse trade ANY OF YOU into a bankrupt AMR contract.

Will the District President and the Eboard have influence. YES! And that is yet another reason why no US AIRWAYS employee wants to play games with a United airline President who not only could care less about your senioriry, profit sharing, etc but also has screwed over his own United members by lying to all of them when he scrapped his United talks and supported management into transition talks. 3 years after the merger, and Delaney hasn't gotten his members one single pay raise. Tell the truth SayWhat and tell the US AIRWAYS members how Delaney has lied to his own United members going through a merger that is 3 years ahead of any presumed AA/US one.

Delaney couldn't and won't give a rat's arse for any US AIRWAYS members. You can Bank on that one!

As aside, the TWU just announced that it will allow their rampers to vote on US AIRWAYS contractual terms offer. Not sure, but it's starting to look like there may be a complete exhaustive agreement.

Onward Occupyiam141.com

Tim,

Looked up AA pay which is $21.16. 5%+3%+3%=$23.57. TWU is letting their members vote on the AA offer not the US offer.
 
Tim,

Looked up AA pay which is $21.16. 5%+3%+3%=$23.57. TWU is letting their members vote on the AA offer not the US offer.
Will be interesting to see what the AA offer will be. If US AIRWAYS is a offer of $22.20 [not including the future years like you include] then I would think that AMR may want to be close to that or above if it wants Labor's support.

Imagine that, a union getting pay raises in bankruptcy when the New Direction can't get one in 3 years for United when that airline is making millions and billions!

Onward www.occupyiam141.com
 
Will be interesting to see what the AA offer will be. If US AIRWAYS is a offer of $22.20 [not including the future years like you include] then I would think that AMR may want to be close to that or above if it wants Labor's support.

Imagine that, a union getting pay raises in bankruptcy when the New Direction can't get one in 3 years for United when that airline is making millions and billions!

Onward www.occupyiam141.com


I believe the offer has been on the table for months. The TWU leadership didn't like it but they have a duty to present it for a vote before BK. IMO its nothing new that was handed to them this morning!
 
The agreement with the AA unions is supposedly a 5% immediate raise, and 3% raises for the next two years, then some sorta pay scale set up against Delta and UA. Sounds like a sorta pay parity thing unfolding. That would put the ramp base pay at about $22 for AA which would be a bankrupt agreement and a true insult to any US airways employee.

Tim,

I think you may be mistaken with some of your info.

The APA Pilots get a 5.5 % immediate raise and then the 3% annual raise.

I believe the APFA flight attendants offer is around 3% initial and then lower annually.

To my knowledge, the TWU has not released the terms of their offer from US. I'm fairly sure it will not be as generous as the APA or APFA offers. It is my suspicion that the TWU offer will still include massive TWU layoffs, and outsourcing. They may have gotten a small concession from Doug, but not much better than what AA was dictating.

Also, isn't the TWU is letting the members vote on AA's last, best offer before the judge abrogates the TWU contract, not the proposal from US? The offer sheet would be conditional to a merger taking place and no need for the membership to consider that until such an event takes place.

If you have other info, or the terms of the offer to the TWU from Doug, please share, as it seems to be a big secret so far.
 
Tim,

I think you may be mistaken with some of your info.

The APA Pilots get a 5.5 % immediate raise and then the 3% annual raise.

I believe the APFA flight attendants offer is around 3% initial and then lower annually.

To my knowledge, the TWU has not released the terms of their offer from US. I'm fairly sure it will not be as generous as the APA or APFA offers. It is my suspicion that the TWU offer will still include massive TWU layoffs, and outsourcing. They may have gotten a small concession from Doug, but not much better than what AA was dictating.

Also, isn't the TWU is letting the members vote on AA's last, best offer before the judge abrogates the TWU contract, not the proposal from US? The offer sheet would be conditional to a merger taking place and no need for the membership to consider that until such an event takes place.

If you have other info, or the terms of the offer to the TWU from Doug, please share, as it seems to be a big secret so far.


I have to agree Dude… but don’t you realize... Tim is NEVER wrong?

The TWU has not released any details regarding the US proposal as of yet...
to validate this... here is some really interesting reading on the AA/TWU thread… check this s*** out!

They are as much in the dark as we are!
 
Tim,

I think you may be mistaken with some of your info.

The APA Pilots get a 5.5 % immediate raise and then the 3% annual raise.

I believe the APFA flight attendants offer is around 3% initial and then lower annually.

To my knowledge, the TWU has not released the terms of their offer from US. I'm fairly sure it will not be as generous as the APA or APFA offers. It is my suspicion that the TWU offer will still include massive TWU layoffs, and outsourcing. They may have gotten a small concession from Doug, but not much better than what AA was dictating.

Also, isn't the TWU is letting the members vote on AA's last, best offer before the judge abrogates the TWU contract, not the proposal from US? The offer sheet would be conditional to a merger taking place and no need for the membership to consider that until such an event takes place.

If you have other info, or the terms of the offer to the TWU from Doug, please share, as it seems to be a big secret so far.
There definately is room for error and there may be some big errors since, like I said, the info is not confirmed and it was merely a discussion in one of the AA breakrooms yesterday. Time will tell what AA offered them. Yes, in any case, I think there will be layoffs and outsourcing.

regards,
 
" For the US Airways team, the agreements we have reached with the unions representing employees at American would also provide enhancements to the compensation and benefits currently in place here.", DP

That's a real troubling statement. It explicitly suggest that he wants to use the AMR contracts as a baseline to put US AIRWAYS workers into. Presumably a AA fleet worker will be making $22.15 [presuming the disputed 5% pay raise but could be less if it is only a 3% pay raise] at some later date, and a US AIRWAYS worker will be making $20.58 on July 1, it would represent a marginal pay raise but at a cost of giving up negotiations that should have fleet service at industry leading in the 'mid $20's'. Stepping out of the current bankrupt contract only to be harnassed into a brand new one that places further restrictions and contracting out is the worst nightmare.

regards,
 
umm i dontknow what ya think about this but AA is now demanding that the unions give up 990milorbill in concessions articleon www.justplanenews.com check it out
 
Can anyone tell me how many GSE mechanics are in PIT?
Are they fairly senior on the list?
 

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