Fleet Service apathy

[saywhat]

Huh? Nobody is setting anything up. It's the facts.

No, a 401k doesn't set up anything when many of the voters will actually lose their complete IAM pension benefit due to the fact that they have less than 5 years. Apathy runs deep in all of these votes so that is a variable that is equal on both sides. The trick for any organizer is to get out the vote though.

Any organizing drive is tough as the union is always outspent 10+ to 1 in these things. The one in charge of the organizing has to have good wit, calculate correctly, increase team building, etc and limit the fumbles and INT's.

That said, I saw a tactical mistake, yes the same one the dopey IAM makes in all of their Non-Nelson campaigns, i.e., they preach IAM pension as the God. The problem with making the IAM pension the rock on the organizing drive is that the company union busters aren't going to be ignorant on how the IAM pension trustees ripped the blood right out of its own US AIRWAYS members and pimped off your pension.

So, when the IAM organizing gurus decided to broadcast the guarantees of the IAM pension to the non union Continental workers, they committed a lie. I actually got involved and told some of the IAM people to stop shi**ting the workers and just be straight with them if they want to win over the non union votes. Well, the IAM just didn't listen. They just don't listen bro and that is why it is thoroughly insulting to watch 80,000 airline people vote out the IAM over the past x amount of years. The arrogance kills us with this union. Nonetheless, as expected, the anti union lawyers wrote charts and print outs of how the IAM pension trustees screwed over its US AIRWAYS members with their IAM Pension and the IAM took a serious hit on this PCE campaign when it was easily found out that the IAM future pension benefit is not a guarantee. Duh????

Even though the IAM wasn't paying me any longer, I went online and was very truthful to the voters and it seemed to produce positive response. However, Lehive banned me from the IAM facebook page since I was admitting that the IAM pension was not guaranteed, then the anti-union facebook page banned me because I was PM ing the non union folks with very good success and encouraging them to vote IAM. To this day, even though my wings are clipped, I am actively engaged online with many of those who are non union and need encouragement. And I think many rampers are doing a great job in the PCE campaign.

It is essential, no matter who wins the presidency, to win PCE at UA for us to maintain the current leverage at UA due to our membershp size over there. A PCE loss would mean additional leverage is flushed.

That said, I have no problem giving credit to any of my opponents where credit is due. If we win PCE, no matter how we do it, credit should be given to those in charge of it. Likewise, if Delaney signed a leading industry contract at UA then let's give him credit for a job well done. The problem up to this point is that the scoreboard shows a 0 on all properties and also shows us down by several touchdowns to management on all properties due to the non urgent, non passion, limp style of the 9-5 Delaney. One thing is certain, whether folks love me or hate me, I won't be a 9-5 guy and I won't be spending much office time. I will be out of town in the breakrooms and meeting my peoples and lifting them up, building them up, and providing additional resources to all of our AGC's. I will be hands on, just like in organizing, and will only be sitting when I'm in negotiations or in conference. Those teamsters who described me as "Tenacious", "relenetless" and 'formidable" are witness to what I do. I'm all in all the time.

regards,

Tim,

You stated that the PCE vote should be a no brainer earlier, now you make it sound as if it isn't a no brainer. Correct me if I'm wrong but it also sounds as if you are taking credit for informing lots of people before you were kicked off 2 sites. Like I said before you are good at setting up things. If PCE wins, it was a no brainer and you can take some credit for being on the sites for a little while. You can even state that the win would have been bigger if you were in charge of it. And if they lose, perfect fodder for you to preach how you would have won. Let's be real man.

 

[700UW]

Tim,

Dont they own the building in Burlingame?

They did when I was in 141, if they just lease it now, how much will it cost to get out of the lease?

And I was involved in the first PCE campaign at UA, it was the largest victory in the airline industry ever.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

You stated that the PCE vote should be a no brainer earlier, now you make it sound as if it isn't a no brainer. Correct me if I'm wrong but it also sounds as if you are taking credit for informing lots of people before you were kicked off 2 sites. Like I said before you are good at setting up things. If PCE wins, it was a no brainer and you can take some credit for being on the sites for a little while. You can even state that the win would have been bigger if you were in charge of it. And if they lose, perfect fodder for you to preach how you would have won. Let's be real man.

Say What,

you have misread what I said. What I am saying is that those in charge of the PCE campaign should be given credit if victory comes. I have no problem giving credit where credit is due. But over 4 years, there has only been destruction on all properties, not due to Canale, but due to Delaney and Delaney's actions.

I was merely pointing out that I, along with many others, are just doing our part in the PCE campaign. Here me now, if PCE wins, I think credit should go to those who were in charge of the campaign. While, I think it is a no brainer for PCE to vote for the IAM, running an organizing campaign is tough and is certainly a no brainer, so we must separate the nouns that I was referencing. That said, I think the IAM campaign is NOT aggressive and has fallen into the typical arrogant IAM "Get me outta here" trap. Time will tell.

regards,

 

[Dog Wonder]

Huh?

Duh????

That said,

regards,

In order to reduce boredom caused apathy the previous quote has been edited for substance.

Carry on.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

Dont they own the building in Burlingame?

They did when I was in 141, if they just lease it now, how much will it cost to get out of the lease?

And I was involved in the first PCE campaign at UA, it was the largest victory in the airline industry ever.

They are over in the leased offices within 1781, upstairs. The leasing agreement will not be re-signed when we occupy the District. And immediately, the 'per diem house' will be shut down. Makes no sense for us to have to pay our S/T to go to work with a meter running? WTH? Just stupid crap that runs the meter on our dime so others can make thousands and thousands more. SFO is a high per diem meter also. Folks, this is well known junk and it's scamming YOU guys. Actually, there is a 'good ole boy' club that meets in SFO with the meter running. Never mind the hotel expenses at the Hyatt. Makes no sense. I would have no problem if Delaney got out of his office and spent alot of road time servicing and meeting members, that would be per diem well spent. But to send AGC"s across the country on hotels and per diems when we can just regionalize our AGC's is mind boggling. Is there a crime with having a PHX AGC and allowing the east AGC's time. Sheesh.

regards,

 

[700UW]

Did they merge 1781 ans 1782 since they lost the M&R group?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Did they merge 1781 ans 1782 since they lost the M&R group?

no, they didn't merge the two.

1782 and several other locals are still exclusively PCE and remained as such.

regards,

 

[ograc]

Again, I have no problem being accused of winning or your suggestion of why I was undefeated. I'll leave the game tapes up to you to review the victories. K?

As far as PCE, they would lose their IAM pension if they voted no, so I'm not sure what the thinking would be if they decided to vote no. I realize the IAM pension isn't a guarantee but myself and others who have it will have to live with it since we are already in it. Makes no sense for PCE to abolish their pension. I feel pretty good about the PCE campaign as there are some inherent things that the New Direction has at its disposal. One is access. Another is a steward system which is a built in committee. Throw in an election where 60% of your own membership is a part of. Again, I like the chances and I think things will shape up for them. Am I comfortable with the New Direction organizing drive? No, it's pretty much non existent as they pretty much yielded all the responsibility to the INTL which has absolutely no clue on how to organize. Still, I think the PCE wins and I would be absolutely shocked if it lost. It's definately the New Direction's to lose.

Time will tell, who knows at this point.

www.occupyiam141.com

Tim

Tim,
Were you aware of United petitioning the NMB with the argument that in many of the small cities, the PCE members, who work the majority of their scheduled work week on the ramp should be ineligible to vote in the election. The NMB agreed with United's position. As a result close to 1,000 PCE members who voted will not be counted. The IAM has appealed the decision and a ruling will be made prior to the vote count February 21. If the vote count is close this decision could have an adverse effect on the outcome. By the way, the PCE members who work the ramp in those small stations were told by United they could not vote in the ramp election because they were part of the PCE Bargaining Unit. These airlines, including US Airways, are relentless in their efforts to stifle labor.
ograc

 

[Jester]

Jester is 100% right about alot of things.

::::fanning myself::::

Tim,

I don't pretend to know much about the financial doings of the IAM and its operations, including lease agreements, per diems, salaries, etc., so it has been an eye-opener to hear concrete ideas on how to reduce costs for the betterment of the organization. I think we as a Membership are better for it. In fact, and I guess it is my fault for not investigating the IAM website or other required financial filings, but I believe we as the Membership should be rightly informed of the expenses and the justification of those expenses in an easy to understand format.

I agree with you based upon how you have explained the expenses of where there is opportunities to remove expenses and better represent those who pay the dues. As I have owned businesses before, I know that it is easy to keep on some questionable expenses because they seemed like a good idea at the time when that item was originally created, but since lost its usefulness or return on investment. Then again, PHX not having an AGC sounds more like petty politics, which costs everyone more in the process.

And I am glad we finally agree from 3 years ago, when I questioned the ND08 team's lack of professional experiences, but I also realize that there are probably few labor attorneys or labor economists mashing bags on the ramp with us. As such, we do need to hire professionals, especially when we are negotiating contracts and handling employee termination disputes. I will continue to repeat myself in this board... one of the strongest arguments for joining an union is that it allows average workers the ability to afford expert legal and financial advice as it relates to their job which would be unaffordable otherwise. However, that expertise is only available if the union is willing and able to spend the money to provide those professional services to its Membership.

So Thanks Jester.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
Were you aware of United petitioning the NMB with the argument that in many of the small cities, the PCE members, who work the majority of their scheduled work week on the ramp should be ineligible to vote in the election. The NMB agreed with United's position. As a result close to 1,000 PCE members who voted will not be counted. The IAM has appealed the decision and a ruling will be made prior to the vote count February 21. If the vote count is close this decision could have an adverse effect on the outcome. By the way, the PCE members who work the ramp in those small stations were told by United they could not vote in the ramp election because they were part of the PCE Bargaining Unit. These airlines, including US Airways, are relentless in their efforts to stifle labor.
ograc

The PCE members working the ramp were never disputed in the UA ramp vote as no parties made a case for them.

However, these same rampers were hotly contested in the PCE vote. The NMB investigators ruled that the preponderance of their work was exclusive of PCE work. We've seen these decisions before.

Without those rampers included, the breakdown is something like a remaining voter count of 16,600, of which 9,000 are IAM members. I like our chances but I don't like the lazy organizing that is now taking place that seems to be scrambling at this point. So, I'm uncomfortable with the present situation with PCE. But, we ought to win it. True hell to pay if we lose another 9,000 union jobs. Hopefully, the New Direction will end up doing something right.

regards,

 

[ograc]

The PCE members working the ramp were never disputed in the UA ramp vote as no parties made a case for them.

However, these same rampers were hotly contested in the PCE vote. The NMB investigators ruled that the preponderance of their work was exclusive of PCE work. We've seen these decisions before.

Without those rampers included, the breakdown is something like a remaining voter count of 16,600, of which 9,000 are IAM members. I like our chances but I don't like the lazy organizing that is now taking place that seems to be scrambling at this point. So, I'm uncomfortable with the present situation with PCE. But, we ought to win it. True hell to pay if we lose another 9,000 union jobs. Hopefully, the New Direction will end up doing something right.

regards,

The International has a history of lazy organizing skills. Almost a posture of expecting the potential members to come knocking on their door. The two recent organizing wins were the first I remember in the industry in a long time. Especially the IAM. I'm cautiously optomistic about the PCE at UA but still have my concerns.
ograc

 

[Dog Wonder]

The preceding has been an unpaid advertisement for this product.

It does not repreesent an endorsement by this station.

 

[Tim Nelson]

::::fanning myself::::

Tim,

I don't pretend to know much about the financial doings of the IAM and its operations, including lease agreements, per diems, salaries, etc., so it has been an eye-opener to hear concrete ideas on how to reduce costs for the betterment of the organization. I think we as a Membership are better for it. In fact, and I guess it is my fault for not investigating the IAM website or other required financial filings, but I believe we as the Membership should be rightly informed of the expenses and the justification of those expenses in an easy to understand format.

I agree with you based upon how you have explained the expenses of where there is opportunities to remove expenses and better represent those who pay the dues. As I have owned businesses before, I know that it is easy to keep on some questionable expenses because they seemed like a good idea at the time when that item was originally created, but since lost its usefulness or return on investment. Then again, PHX not having an AGC sounds more like petty politics, which costs everyone more in the process.

And I am glad we finally agree from 3 years ago, when I questioned the ND08 team's lack of professional experiences, but I also realize that there are probably few labor attorneys or labor economists mashing bags on the ramp with us. As such, we do need to hire professionals, especially when we are negotiating contracts and handling employee termination disputes. I will continue to repeat myself in this board... one of the strongest arguments for joining an union is that it allows average workers the ability to afford expert legal and financial advice as it relates to their job which would be unaffordable otherwise. However, that expertise is only available if the union is willing and able to spend the money to provide those professional services to its Membership.

So Thanks Jester.

It wasn't that I didn't agree with you, my assumption was that Delaney would involve professionals, present in negotiations and arbitrations. The exact opposite is the case. Delaney has decided to even eliminate stenographers as a prerequisite in arbitrations. Claims that he knows how to negotiate without an attorney present, and claims that his AGC's are duly qualified without the further assistance of counsel being present. Throw in his refusal to have a Director of Education and a legislative director and what we are left with are a bunch of leaders who think they "Da Man". Such thinking is always considered 'primal' in the academic circles.

The more education one has, the more one realizes they need to surround themselves with professionals if they truly care about doing a professional job. I want our AGC's to be assisted by an attorney while in arbitration, and not a phone call away. I want an attorney by my side when I'm in negotiations as an additional resource for the members to help clarify some legal language that may otherwise fly over our heads. There is a reason why your contract has so much gray in it that you can't paint a USS Battleship with it. And we save money by hiring an attorney since a labor attorney fetches anywhere between $85,000-$150,000. They are the cheapest attorneys. The IAM's main Deputy counsel, Carla Seigel has a wealth of knowledge and gets $150,000 [High end], the assistant counsel for the INTL fetches around $100,000 or so. Teamsters attorneys usually go for about $85,000. I don't have any attorney in mind but I will work through the INTL with references and hire an attorney who carries a card on the AFLCIO Lawyers Committee. The cost will probably be around $100,000 which not only saves YOU about $50,000 a year from our outside law firm but also provides a much better value and resource. It simply makes no sense to keep pissing on our members with half arse representation. The Occupy141 platform addresses all of these things for the benefit of the member.

regards,

 

[ChockJockey]

The International has a history of lazy organizing skills. Almost a posture of expecting the potential members to come knocking on their door. The two recent organizing wins were the first I remember in the industry in a long time. Especially the IAM. I'm cautiously optomistic about the PCE at UA but still have my concerns.
ograc

Can someone tell me what "PCE" stands for/is? I'm trying to make sense of this thread...

 

[Kev3188]

PCE= Public Contact Employees (ie gate/ticket agents)...