Fleet Service apathy

[PHX Devil]

Tim,
How is GG the godfather of PHX? I didn't even know who he was and asked ten people until one of the LAS transfers told me. GG is never in PHX, he only works a few days and no one knows who he is. He might end up being a good agc but we don't even know what he stands for let alone who he is.

 

[charlie Brown]

Hey can someone help me out on here, and explain what warn status on my avatar means. I assume I said something wrong, but is that what you get it for? just wondering, never had one before.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim
I was just correcting you when you were assuming that I voted for the whole slate. As you know, there is a lot of time goes by from the time someone gets nominated, until the members actually vote. I think a couple of AGC,s on the canale ticket were good. Thats what I was talking about a few post back ago, when I said until pride gets out of the way, and someone puts together a ticket with the best people than we will never have a district as good as it could be. Let me ask you a question? You say your there for the members, and whats best for them. You have named several people on your earlier post that are running on your ticket. Nothing against any of these guys personally, ( I dont even know most of them ) but are you saying these are the best experienced guys for AGC? Or do you think they will pull you the vote in thier particular city? If you do think they are the best experienced, then lets here their experience so the members can decide. And one more question, most if not all these people were around back in 08 when you put the ND08 ticket together, why were they not on the ticket then, if they are far better for the job? As far as negotiations. I have told you on here, and on the phone, since I am 100% sure managment reads this site daily, I dont think its the best place to talk about negotiations. I will say, even though I didnt have part in picking our negotiations team, I am very proud to be a part of it. I think we have a great team, and I have confidence in our team. As far as telling members whats going on in negotiations, we do the briefing on the district site, I have also left the grievance office number in previous post and I will leave it again below. Anyone is welcome to call it, and I will update them as much as possible about our negotiations, regardless of what you think, I am about informing the membership, but we disagree on what all can and should be said. And Tim, FWIW, I do like some things you say you would do on your occupy 141 paper. However, I think a lot of those things could have been done if we would have all came together and got them done. I dont believe putting in a whole new ticket is best for our members. We need to fix the mistakes, and move forward. I agree with PJ that putting new people in place that have never even done a step 3 hearing before is taking a step backwards.

In case anyone wants the number to talk to me and get updated on negotiations here it is again 704-359-3350. I work the ramp a couple of nights a week, usually in the office about 3 days a week. Leave a message and contact info, and I will get back to ya.

What we did in 08 was a step forward as we had to vote out all those AGC's who did in fact have step 3 experience but just rolled with the United airline leadership and were terrible for the masses. To this day, I think it was a step forward and I think you supported it. You and PJ didn't have a problem with it when there were different names involved. And it did move things forward out of the Canale regime that collared the US AIRWAYS rampers dreadfully.

Regarding the negotiations team, I talk to many of those on the negotiations team, 3 of them weekly, and I think the negotiations team has a good nucleus. But by what authority do any of you have on that team? What is going to separate your Delaney led negotiations team from the ones that failed to make a difference at Hawaiian and United airlines? As a negotiations team member, I'm sure you looked at the other teams under Delaney and researched Delaney's actions so that you can be properly informed. Are you better than the negotiations team on United? What about Delaney's negotiations team at Hawaiian, are you better than them? If not, then how are you going to make a difference in forcing Delaney to change his path on how he gave up leverage at united during their merger? Are you loyal to Delaney or can you say that Delaney gave up leverage when he supported managements idea to scrap 3 years of UA only talks and enter transition talks? Where have we seen this before? And I for one, WILL NOT dump US AIRWAYS rampers in transition talks and cut deals with management without the consent of the membership and without first gaining some monetary gains & scope prior. But that's the exact sorta thing you already know will NOT happen if you know what Delaney did with the ramp, and the stock clerks. Cripes, he dumped the stock clerks in with non contract folks. Maybe if we win PCE, maybe there will be enough political heat on him where he doesn't dump the PCE 9,000 IAM members into transition talks, without any monetary considerations to do so, with 7,500 non contract. It's just wrong and destructive and you should know that. Did the negotiations team support his LOA that supported the premature closing of those 5 stations?

Also, I'll take an AGC + In house attorney any day over an AGC and a cell phone. In fact, our attorney will be primary in the arguments. I can run on my own personal merit but our Occupy 141 realizes that the New Direction, the Canale regime, the Occupy 141 ticket can't have enough 'personal merit' to get a leading industry contract IF everything reduced down to chest pounding and personal merit. Charlie Brown, that's what you are missing, this isn't about personal merit. We are more interested in changing a culture and making it more professional and building the culture and environment that only the Occupy 141 ticket can do.

At any rate, I think CLT deserves the president to actually attend one of its local meetings other than election time. As I said, second best.

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

Tim

 

[pjirish317]

How is MF or yourself going to get the company to move off of its position?


Tim

Tim,

I asked you this very same question about signing the confidentiality agreement. And you never answered. You danced around the question. How will you get the company to move off it's position regarding the confidentiality agreement? And what is the recourse when they don't?

 

[saywhat]

What we did in 08 was a step forward as we had to vote out all those AGC's who did in fact have step 3 experience but just rolled with the United airline leadership and were terrible for the masses. To this day, I think it was a step forward and I think you supported it. You and PJ didn't have a problem with it when there were different names involved. And it did move things forward out of the Canale regime that collared the US AIRWAYS rampers dreadfully.

Regarding the negotiations team, I talk to many of those on the negotiations team, 3 of them weekly, and I think the negotiations team has a good nucleus. But by what authority do any of you have on that team? What is going to separate your Delaney led negotiations team from the ones that failed to make a difference at Hawaiian and United airlines? As a negotiations team member, I'm sure you looked at the other teams under Delaney and researched Delaney's actions so that you can be properly informed. Are you better than the negotiations team on United? What about Delaney's negotiations team at Hawaiian, are you better than them? If not, then how are you going to make a difference in forcing Delaney to change his path on how he gave up leverage at united during their merger? Are you loyal to Delaney or can you say that Delaney gave up leverage when he supported managements idea to scrap 3 years of UA only talks and enter transition talks? Where have we seen this before? And I for one, WILL NOT dump US AIRWAYS rampers in transition talks and cut deals with management without the consent of the membership and without first gaining some monetary gains & scope prior. But that's the exact sorta thing you already know will NOT happen if you know what Delaney did with the ramp, and the stock clerks. Cripes, he dumped the stock clerks in with non contract folks. Maybe if we win PCE, maybe there will be enough political heat on him where he doesn't dump the PCE 9,000 IAM members into transition talks, without any monetary considerations to do so, with 7,500 non contract. It's just wrong and destructive and you should know that. Did the negotiations team support his LOA that supported the premature closing of those 5 stations?

Also, I'll take an AGC + In house attorney any day over an AGC and a cell phone. In fact, our attorney will be primary in the arguments. I can run on my own personal merit but our Occupy 141 realizes that the New Direction, the Canale regime, the Occupy 141 ticket can't have enough 'personal merit' to get a leading industry contract IF everything reduced down to chest pounding and personal merit. Charlie Brown, that's what you are missing, this isn't about personal merit. We are more interested in changing a culture and making it more professional and building the culture and environment that only the Occupy 141 ticket can do.

At any rate, I think CLT deserves the president to actually attend one of its local meetings other than election time. As I said, second best.

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

Tim

Tim,

Sounds as if you don't care who is on your ticket because the lawyer is going to be there at all times. Why not cut their salaries to $50,000 and you'll save that much more and they don't need to do anything other than say yes sir and I'll take another shot of koolaid please. You will need that extra money because your in house lawyer is going to need a big staff to be everywhere all the time. Get real.

Could you explain how Delaney circumvented the negotiating team on the outsourcing piece? Are you saying the negotiating team has authority over Delaney?

 

[Jester]

I asked you this very same question about signing the confidentiality agreement. And you never answered. You danced around the question. How will you get the company to move off it's position regarding the confidentiality agreement? And what is the recourse when they don't?

Could you explain how Delaney circumvented the negotiating team on the outsourcing piece? Are you saying the negotiating team has authority over Delaney?

Come on, guys... I am not Tim and I know he has already replied to these questions.

1) Tim has stated that openness to the negotiations to common amongst other airlines, and why should we be treated differently? The Company has a legal obligation to negotiate in good faith, and there is nothing to require confidentially during the negotiations.

2) If the Negotiating Team is attempting to keep stations from being outsourced, and to have Delaney go around them to give those stations away with a LOA, then yes, I would agree with Tim, that action is hurting the abilities of the Negotiating Team to keep jobs.

I am sure that Tim could answer for himself, but I know he answered the first question, and the second question seems obvious. That's of course, unless the intention is to keep asking the questions as if the subject has been ignored. With apologies to Tim.

So Concises Jester.

 

[saywhat]

Come on, guys... I am not Tim and I know he has already replied to these questions.

1) Tim has stated that openness to the negotiations to common amongst other airlines, and why should we be treated differently? The Company has a legal obligation to negotiate in good faith, and there is nothing to require confidentially during the negotiations.

2) If the Negotiating Team is attempting to keep stations from being outsourced, and to have Delaney go around them to give those stations away with a LOA, then yes, I would agree with Tim, that action is hurting the abilities of the Negotiating Team to keep jobs.

I am sure that Tim could answer for himself, but I know he answered the first question, and the second question seems obvious. That's of course, unless the intention is to keep asking the questions as if the subject has been ignored. With apologies to Tim.

So Concises Jester.

Jester,

Tim can answer his own questions. He continually talks about the negotiating team and how Delaney went against them. The contract is amendable and until a new contract is put forth to the membership to vote on the current contract is status quo. In the current contract outsourcing is allowed.

 

[700UW]

Being a former member of the M&R Negotiating Committee, there are some SEC regulations covering financials, that you are required to sign a confidentiality agreement to be privy to some information.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Jester,

Tim can answer his own questions. He continually talks about the negotiating team and how Delaney went against them. The contract is amendable and until a new contract is put forth to the membership to vote on the current contract is status quo. In the current contract outsourcing is allowed.

Say what,

would you believe that my daughter had me watching the bachelor right now?

regards,

 

[saywhat]

Say what,

would you believe that my daughter had me watching the bachelor right now?

regards,

That is nice but I don't think I would've admitted that.

 

[pjirish317]

1) Tim has stated that openness to the negotiations to common amongst other airlines, and why should we be treated differently? The Company has a legal obligation to negotiate in good faith, and there is nothing to require confidentially during the negotiations.


So Concises Jester.

Jester,

Do we work for "other" airlines? Do we negotiate with "other" airlines? No, we negotiate with LCC. So when the company requires a confindentiality agreement, and they can, for proprietary information, which they can make a case for, and is not negotiating in bad faith, union say's no, we wont sign, who is negotiating in bad faith now? My question to Tim, since he posed a similar question to Charlie Brown, was how was he going to change the company's position on this issue. To get the company to agree to no confidentiality agreement. And when he couldn't deliver this, what recourse, do we, as the members have?

 

[psa8979]

"Big Picture" Tim Nelson. Occupy is weak in my opinion as a marketing name for your group. We have several LCC F/S threads going here that are merging towards possible solutions for ALL Members. Here is an idea you should think about. Since 90 % of LCC F/S is in 6 stations and PHX is the most apathetic of the six , bid there. Become a Committeeman. Use your Salesman and Historian skills to educate the former TWU/ AWA brothers @ sisters about the IAM. Build your base for D-141 President and your slate . In June WE will ALL see how it works out for YOU and the rest of US. Let me know what you think. But can you keep it short, you sometimes get WINDY with your replies.

 

[Tim Nelson]

"Big Picture" Tim Nelson. Occupy is weak in my opinion as a marketing name for your group. We have several LCC F/S threads going here that are merging towards possible solutions for ALL Members. Here is an idea you should think about. Since 90 % of LCC F/S is in 6 stations and PHX is the most apathetic of the six , bid there. Become a Committeeman. Use your Salesman and Historian skills to educate the former TWU/ AWA brothers @ sisters about the IAM. Build your base for D-141 President and your slate . In June WE will ALL see how it works out for YOU and the rest of US. Let me know what you think. But can you keep it short, you sometimes get WINDY with your replies.

You do have a point that I do get windy, but hey, I'm the baby face!

As far as PHX, I don't think Delaney ever adequately addressed PHX and, IMO, it makes no sense having an east guy servicing a westie as AGC. A president has to recognize that there are still two cultures and that the languages and sacred things of each culture isn't going to change overnight. So, the Occupy 141 team recognized that PHX needs their own AGC and my focus is on having two former America West AGC's. And that is exactly what Occupy 141 addressed.

regards,
www.occupyiam141.com

 

[Tim Nelson]

Jester,

Do we work for "other" airlines? Do we negotiate with "other" airlines? No, we negotiate with LCC. So when the company requires a confindentiality agreement, and they can, for proprietary information, which they can make a case for, and is not negotiating in bad faith, union say's no, we wont sign, who is negotiating in bad faith now? My question to Tim, since he posed a similar question to Charlie Brown, was how was he going to change the company's position on this issue. To get the company to agree to no confidentiality agreement. And when he couldn't deliver this, what recourse, do we, as the members have?

PJ,
US AIRWAYS is no different than any other airline, and the same laws apply. Jester is right. The problem is that you guys have been beat up so bad by management that you see a devil behind every bush and your first reflex is "Company Won't do that", "Company says NO", "Company Can't". Hogwash! Kinda like a battered dog. I'm just trying to get you to take the red pill so you will understand the brave new world where industry leading contracts live. Naturally, the 'good ole boys' want everyone to be ignorant.

Negotiations will move forward and I won't be asking to see all the airlines confidential and latest projections and laptop charts showing the gloom and doom of how you are overpaid and how the company is so poor. If US AIRWAYS is as evil as you say, and I'm not denying it, then it is illogical for us to conclude anything else other than all additional propriety information will be slanted in a way that tips the scale to management. The occupy 141 platform will get us on at least a neutral field, away from the company's home town refs and a home town crowd. I could hardly think of a case where management would grab me by the arm and get me to sign a confidential form to show me all kinds of extra money it is hiding. Nonetheless, if necessary and the fairy tale comes true, then why wouldn't I sign a LOA and have the membership decide and consent? the membership will decide as they will be informed every step of the way.

Besides, The Bottom Line, is that we have more than enough information based on the very transparent SEC filings to understand our leverage that is based on the money that the company is making and the money they project in their public documents. We also have access to other labor contracts so we know what a leading industry contract is that we can base negotiations off of. But, if there is something I have to sign a letter of agreement on to further the advances of the membership then I would sign one, the difference is that the membership would have to consent to it.

Also, on US AIRWAYS property, All of USAPA's side letters are supposed to be voted on by the membership by constiution. None of this is exclusive or original to Occupy 141. The only thing exclusive is how IAM 141 signs off on LOA without member consent. We have to smash that down and we will. Bottom line.

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

regards,

 

[700UW]

You wont get anywhere with thoughts like that.

The information is filed with the SEC and if it was false, US would get in trouble, guess you dont know about Sarbanes-Oxley.

You wont get a thing from the company if you cant look at the financials.

How many negotiation committees have you been part of?

How many classes have you taken on Collective Bargaining?

How many actuaries have you been involved with?

I dont think you have been to CBA 101 yet, cause with your thoughts you will never get a CBA.

AMFA did not have totally open negotiations, there were times the observers were asked to leave the room.