Fleet Service apathy

[ograc]

management is management. That's a given. My focus is on the actions of the collective bargaining agent. The union [the masses] can change and increase leverage. Right now the union, i.e., the masses, are a beaten dog. There is no relationship between the collective bargaining agent and the union so the distrust of a beaten dog is the exact sorta predicament we should expect. When they locked out BUF and broke the labor agreement, there were things that the union could have done in solidarity but it couldn't since the collective bargaining agent hasn't developed any sorta relationship or trust with the membership. The process of socializing solidarity for the masses hasn't happened. There is no legitimated solidarity, much less internalization of it. Externalizing it is totally out of the question. Essentially, the level of solidarity needed to gain respect is truly lacking. The witness to this predicament are the images, i.e., images in negotiations, images in stations, etc.

The social construction of solidarity is an academic exercise. And none of our elected leaders have been trained or skilled in such socialization techniques. They are in way over their heads in many ways. And I'm not saying that I have all the answers. But, it would be a big huge step forward if any of them ever consciously understood that they are not equipped. BECAUSE, if they understood, then they would truly have their eyes open and realize they need to surround themselves with professionals also.

www.occupyiam141.com

regards,

Imagine the leverage we would have if a team could decrease the apathy and increase the solidarity, interest and involvement. We are over 7,000 members strong but divided. We have dedicated members running for office who realize this division among our ranks needs to change. With division the whole group is vulnerable. One contributing factor to this division is the failure of the current district leaders to realize the importance of addressing this issue. I started this thread of Fleet Service Apathy because I believe it is one of the root issues that needs addressed before we can expect any gains. Regardless of what team is elected in the upcoming election, if they continue to disregard this issue, they are destined to fail the membership. The company has us just where they want us and hopes they can keep us there.

 

[no more cuts]

just read over the LOA that Rich signed with Usairways.. Gee thanks Rich I see at the bottom of the first page you didnt
want to spend the money to arbitrate the violation of our contract. http://www.occupyiam141.com/DelaneySupportUSAirwaysLockout.pdf
check it out for yourselves. Why pay union dues for NO representation. Can someone on here give me the address and day Philadelphia has
elections

 

[saywhat]

just read over the LOA that Rich signed with Usairways.. Gee thanks Rich I see at the bottom of the first page you didnt
want to spend the money to arbitrate the violation of our contract. http://www.occupyiam141.com/DelaneySupportUSAirwaysLockout.pdf
check it out for yourselves. Why pay union dues for NO representation. Can someone on here give me the address and day Philadelphia has
elections

Just read the so called sell out that Tim Nelson and his band of non thinkers would like to sell people on regarding the outsourced stations. It says that lawyers for both sides were talked to and that it couldn't be discussed. Perfect opportunity to say anything you want to try and make the Union look bad but RD talked to lawyers according to the agreement. Could it be that the members weren't sold out and the Union was told by the lawyers to settle based on the facts of the case? Get real.

 

[niblet]

Just read the so called sell out that Tim Nelson and his band of non thinkers would like to sell people on regarding the outsourced stations. It says that lawyers for both sides were talked to and that it couldn't be discussed. Perfect opportunity to say anything you want to try and make the Union look bad but RD talked to lawyers according to the agreement. Could it be that the members weren't sold out and the Union was told by the lawyers to settle based on the facts of the case? Get real.

Are you saying that Aticle 2 paragraph C does not apply. I think Tim is suggesting the membership would of or should of made that desision and the LOA was in what way a benefit. My guess is that your management team does'nt violate the contract where you work. The rest of us out here in the field have to grieve issues, contractual issues. If RD thought or the lawyers thought that LOA was the best thing for those employees why were'nt the employees privy to what was being discussed. Thats just my thoughts on what happens in the real world.

 

[robbedagain]

As long as there are no union solidarity and with US walking all over the contract they will continue to deplete what little is left. mgmt knows this and they love to shove the throttles to the full max and get away! Its high time that FSA members get together and kick out the union leaders and instal ones that ARE WILLING to stand for the membership

 

[saywhat]

Are you saying that Aticle 2 paragraph C does not apply. I think Tim is suggesting the membership would of or should of made that desision and the LOA was in what way a benefit. My guess is that your management team does'nt violate the contract where you work. The rest of us out here in the field have to grieve issues, contractual issues. If RD thought or the lawyers thought that LOA was the best thing for those employees why were'nt the employees privy to what was being discussed. Thats just my thoughts on what happens in the real world.

If the lawyer advised RD to settle the grievance based on some reason we are unaware of then it is what it is. Communication could have been better apparently but based on the LOA I believe a lawyer looked at the case and advised. TN does what he does best and that is to bust any chance of solidarity. Why doesn't he get a positive movement going to bring solidarity to the members? The occupy movement is just TN being destructive to all of us. People who want solidarity to improve should go to LL meetings and become shop stewards etc. But that won't work right TN? Let's change everything and push it off as something good you are doing for the members. Get real. Tired of a person that seems to be intelligent but chooses to use his knowledge in a power hungry, narcississtic, destructive way. Organize the masses in a more positive way and you may get the following you so desire.

 

[niblet]

If the lawyer advised RD to settle the grievance based on some reason we are unaware of then it is what it is. Communication could have been better apparently but based on the LOA I believe a lawyer looked at the case and advised. TN does what he does best and that is to bust any chance of solidarity. Why doesn't he get a positive movement going to bring solidarity to the members? The occupy movement is just TN being destructive to all of us. People who want solidarity to improve should go to LL meetings and become shop stewards etc. But that won't work right TN? Let's change everything and push it off as something good you are doing for the members. Get real. Tired of a person that seems to be intelligent but chooses to use his knowledge in a power hungry, narcississtic, destructive way. Organize the masses in a more positive way and you may get the following you so desire.

Solidarity would begin if we agreed that our contract is being violated regularly. From here at the local level we do what we can. The district has a responsibility to hold the company accountable for breaking the contract, by us bringing those violations to their attention. Some of us here in the field work very hard at the job at hand along with fighting the apathy of the membership and the company blatenly violating the contract. It would be nice to have the support we need from the District. The toughest fights are with Negativety. I support the Occupy movement. We all want solidarity right? Education and empowering the membership. Regular communications. Transparency. Whats wrong with that?

 

[Tim Nelson]

If the lawyer advised RD to settle the grievance based on some reason we are unaware of then it is what it is. Communication could have been better apparently but based on the LOA I believe a lawyer looked at the case and advised. TN does what he does best and that is to bust any chance of solidarity. Why doesn't he get a positive movement going to bring solidarity to the members? The occupy movement is just TN being destructive to all of us. People who want solidarity to improve should go to LL meetings and become shop stewards etc. But that won't work right TN? Let's change everything and push it off as something good you are doing for the members. Get real. Tired of a person that seems to be intelligent but chooses to use his knowledge in a power hungry, narcississtic, destructive way. Organize the masses in a more positive way and you may get the following you so desire.

That's silly

Item 1: The LOA. Delaney himself said that he was going to send it to expedited arbitration and that the company closed the stations prematurely. He said that in the messenger. Delaney also signed in the LOA "Whereas US AIRWAYS and the Union deisire to resolve their dispute in order to avoid the expenditure of additional time and resources." Delaney said explicitly that he wanted to resolve this grievance because BUF wasn't worth it. That's what he signed and that's exactly what he said. Something is wrong with that.

As far as myself, I did a great job while on your dime but I realized that the problem with our union is the structure on what it is based on, i.e., a paternal 1940's type structure.

So I owed it to myself and the membership to try to put together a group of members who believed in the ideas of bringing this 1940's style union into this century. And installing a platform that adapts this union to this century and builds the type of solidarity that our present structure has proved incapable. The previous century had no information access and nobody dare question their union as everyone just listened to what the union man told them. This day and age, transparency is key, information runs like a highway with info and knowledge, and our generations want choices, not dictation anymore. Unions have to stay relevant to a generation but our union simply has not adapted. That's why there is no solidarity. It's still the 'good ole boys' and they are not transparent; restrict information; and who knows how many LOA have been signed. The masses will never know because the union doesn't tell anyone. IN fact, if we didn't post the referenced LOA on our occupyiam141 site, nobody would have it. Thankfully, we intercepted it and exposed the fraud. I am tearing something down, I'm tearing down a structure that has limited the empowerment of the masses and has brought us into lower middle class.

Apathy and lack of attendance at a local meeting is a social phenomena that is a symptom of the obsolete structure of our union. It really doesn't matter who the AGC or President is if we don't install a new platform and structure. Having a president make decisions that him and you 'think are good' is unacceptable without the consent of the masses. How does that build solidarity? And I don't think you've increased the solidarity of the less than thrilled IND and BUF workers.

Throw in the additional fact that our AGC's had no pull with the latest New Direction ticket when Delaney decided to take one more US AIRWAYS representation spot and hand it to United. What is PJ going to think now? I mean, PJ and me actually agree that there is a backlog of grievances, but how does the backlog get resolved when all of our AGC's supported Rich Delaney on eliminating one more representational spot [VP] for US AIRWAYS members?

The occupy 141 slate rejects how these UA presidents continue to discount US AIRWAYS and treat them as 'second best'. Therefore, our ticket is the only ticket that has 8 US AIRWAYS AGC's spots, including 4 Local chairman on the ballot, Former Local chairman on the ballot, Local officers and one District organizer/shop steward. It simply isn't good enough to continue being treated second best and having Delaney taking yet one more spot off of his ballot from US AIRWAYS and giving it to United. It's just wrong and will only be supported by folks on his ballot who have personal gain.

Onward!

www.occupyiam141.com

regards,

 

[Jester]

If the lawyer advised RD to settle the grievance based on some reason we are unaware of then it is what it is. Communication could have been better apparently but based on the LOA I believe a lawyer looked at the case and advised.

Our blinders never fit us so well, as when we follow instruction without any other consideration... is this the meaning of "solidarity" to you? You assume the LOA has been reviewed by an expert legal opinion, but you wouldn't be the one to question it, would you? I mean, solidarity and all, right?

Given the confusion, misunderstanding as to the suspected premature station closures, I do not think it to be unreasonable or out-of-line to demand an explanation from RD, especially to those who suffered the brunt of the Company's decision. Maybe in the spirit of anonymity afforded by this forum, someone could assume the handle "Rich X" or "Unknown Delaney" and provide an explanation to his reasoning to the LOA?

Frankly, I am tired of the IAM leadership being unresponsive to the questions and concerns about their choices and decisions which affect the Membership. In addition, I have little tolerance for those who make excuses for those in a leadership position who refuse to address the Membership in this free public forum.

I don't care how comfortable those blinders feel, we deserve better.

So Chastises Jester.

 

[saywhat]

That's silly

Item 1: The LOA. Delaney himself said that he was going to send it to expedited arbitration and that the company closed the stations prematurely. He said that in the messenger. Delaney also signed in the LOA "Whereas US AIRWAYS and the Union deisire to resolve their dispute in order to avoid the expenditure of additional time and resources." Delaney said explicitly that he wanted to resolve this grievance because BUF wasn't worth it. That's what he signed and that's exactly what he said. Something is wrong with that.

As far as myself, I did a great job while on your dime but I realized that the problem with our union is the structure on what it is based on, i.e., a paternal 1940's type structure.

So I owed it to myself and the membership to try to put together a group of members who believed in the ideas of bringing this 1940's style union into this century. And installing a platform that adapts this union to this century and builds the type of solidarity that our present structure has proved incapable. The previous century had no information access and nobody dare question their union as everyone just listened to what the union man told them. This day and age, transparency is key, information runs like a highway with info and knowledge, and our generations want choices, not dictation anymore. Unions have to stay relevant to a generation but our union simply has not adapted. That's why there is no solidarity. It's still the 'good ole boys' and they are not transparent; restrict information; and who knows how many LOA have been signed. The masses will never know because the union doesn't tell anyone. IN fact, if we didn't post the referenced LOA on our occupyiam141 site, nobody would have it. Thankfully, we intercepted it and exposed the fraud. I am tearing something down, I'm tearing down a structure that has limited the empowerment of the masses and has brought us into lower middle class.

Apathy and lack of attendance at a local meeting is a social phenomena that is a symptom of the obsolete structure of our union. It really doesn't matter who the AGC or President is if we don't install a new platform and structure. Having a president make decisions that him and you 'think are good' is unacceptable without the consent of the masses. How does that build solidarity? And I don't think you've increased the solidarity of the less than thrilled IND and BUF workers.

Throw in the additional fact that our AGC's had no pull with the latest New Direction ticket when Delaney decided to take one more US AIRWAYS representation spot and hand it to United. What is PJ going to think now? I mean, PJ and me actually agree that there is a backlog of grievances, but how does the backlog get resolved when all of our AGC's supported Rich Delaney on eliminating one more representational spot [VP] for US AIRWAYS members?

The occupy 141 slate rejects how these UA presidents continue to discount US AIRWAYS and treat them as 'second best'. Therefore, our ticket is the only ticket that has 8 US AIRWAYS AGC's spots, including 4 Local chairman on the ballot, Former Local chairman on the ballot, Local officers and one District organizer/shop steward. It simply isn't good enough to continue being treated second best and having Delaney taking yet one more spot off of his ballot from US AIRWAYS and giving it to United. It's just wrong and will only be supported by folks on his ballot who have personal gain.

Onward!

www.occupyiam141.com

regards,

Tim,

What is sad in all this is that a grass roots movement starts with the masses and grows and eventually if successful, allows for a better environment. However,
you would like to think that starting at the top and working down is how to get solidarity. Wrong, it starts in city by city, LL by LL, and on and on. Quit trying to sound like you are the answer to our problems because up to this point you have done everything in your power to bust solidarity. Get real.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Our blinders never fit us so well, as when we follow instruction without any other consideration... is this the meaning of "solidarity" to you? You assume the LOA has been reviewed by an expert legal opinion, but you wouldn't be the one to question it, would you? I mean, solidarity and all, right?

Given the confusion, misunderstanding as to the suspected premature station closures, I do not think it to be unreasonable or out-of-line to demand an explanation from RD, especially to those who suffered the brunt of the Company's decision. Maybe in the spirit of anonymity afforded by this forum, someone could assume the handle "Rich X" or "Unknown Delaney" and provide an explanation to his reasoning to the LOA?

Frankly, I am tired of the IAM leadership being unresponsive to the questions and concerns about their choices and decisions which affect the Membership. In addition, I have little tolerance for those who make excuses for those in a leadership position who refuse to address the Membership in this free public forum.

I don't care how comfortable those blinders feel, we deserve better.

So Chastises Jester.

Jester, don't assume that SayWhat isn't in the leadership. He is. I'm just not going to 'out' him. He's on the Delaney ticket also. So he's going to support Delaney all the way to the bank. Bottom line.

regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

What is sad in all this is that a grass roots movement starts with the masses and grows and eventually if successful, allows for a better environment. However,
you would like to think that starting at the top and working down is how to get solidarity. Wrong, it starts in city by city, LL by LL, and on and on. Quit trying to sound like you are the answer to our problems because up to this point you have done everything in your power to bust solidarity. Get real.

Saywhat,

The problem is inherent with a system that is stuck in 1940 mode. There is no solidarity to bust because none is existent in this sorta system. Our membership doesn't even know what is going on or what is being negotiated because of the ignorance that the system breeds. Where is this solidarity that you speak about? Please let us know. If there was solidarity, then Delaney could have placed one phone call to PHL to 'do what they have to do' and force the company to reconsider the premature closures. Solidarity would have prevented that blatant scab action by your company.

At United, the solidarity has been measured by boycotting a 'pizza party'. Folks, when our union is so lame that the solidarity is measured by boycotting pizza and pop, something is wrong. Sheesh!

We are just spinning our wheels if we keep the paternal structure. But we have to take care of other things other than solidarity. We have to realize that we need professionals in arbitration and negotiations to assist us. This is a sharp contrast to the Delaney team that thinks they are all smarter than attorneys. BTW, exactly how many arbitrations has the union won in 4 years and I'm not talking about arbitration hearings that involve settlements. I'm talking about actual arbitration decisions. And it didn't help that Delaney stood down on the attendance policy either.

We also need to address the disparity among our US AIRWAYS brethern. You and others support Delaney robbing your own blood of one more US AIRWAYS spot and you are fine with that since Delaney is your cash cow and he has you on his ticket. Shame on you. Say all you want about Tim Nelson, but I can assure you this, I'm not standing down and going to allow Delaney to pimp one more spot off of US AIRWAYS for United. You and PJ can offer unyielding support and complain all day about the grievance backlog but your complaints will fall on deaf ears as you continue to support a president that treats US AIRWAYS second best and takes even more representation spots from your US AIRWAYS brothers and sisters. Again, I'm truly sorry for you but, hey, your name is nice and shiny on Delaney's ballot so your personal gain is putting political blinders on you. If you can't stand up to Delaney when he is eliminating more US AIRWAYS slots on his ticket, then when can you? Doesn't that make the slightest sense to you? Sheesh!

regards,

Tim Nelson

 

[saywhat]

Saywhat,

The problem is inherent with a system that is stuck in 1940 mode. There is no solidarity to bust because none is existent in this sorta system. Our membership doesn't even know what is going on or what is being negotiated because of the ignorance that the system breeds. Where is this solidarity that you speak about? Please let us know. If there was solidarity, then Delaney could have placed one phone call to PHL to 'do what they have to do' and force the company to reconsider the premature closures. Solidarity would have prevented that blatant scab action by your company.

At United, the solidarity has been measured by boycotting a 'pizza party'. Folks, when our union is so lame that the solidarity is measured by boycotting pizza and pop, something is wrong. Sheesh!

We are just spinning our wheels if we keep the paternal structure. But we have to take care of other things other than solidarity. We have to realize that we need professionals in arbitration and negotiations to assist us. This is a sharp contrast to the Delaney team that thinks they are all smarter than attorneys. BTW, exactly how many arbitrations has the union won in 4 years and I'm not talking about arbitration hearings that involve settlements. I'm talking about actual arbitration decisions. And it didn't help that Delaney stood down on the attendance policy either.

We also need to address the disparity among our US AIRWAYS brethern. You and others support Delaney robbing your own blood of one more US AIRWAYS spot and you are fine with that since Delaney is your cash cow and he has you on his ticket. Shame on you. Say all you want about Tim Nelson, but I can assure you this, I'm not standing down and going to allow Delaney to pimp one more spot off of US AIRWAYS for United. You and PJ can offer unyielding support and complain all day about the grievance backlog but your complaints will fall on deaf ears as you continue to support a president that treats US AIRWAYS second best and takes even more representation spots from your US AIRWAYS brothers and sisters. Again, I'm truly sorry for you but, hey, your name is nice and shiny on Delaney's ballot so your personal gain is putting political blinders on you. If you can't stand up to Delaney when he is eliminating more US AIRWAYS slots on his ticket, then when can you? Doesn't that make the slightest sense to you? Sheesh!

regards,

Tim Nelson

Tim,

You need to stop thinking about you and read what I posted. You post up a letter that supposedly has RD throwing the outsourced stations under the bus. That letter states that legal was aware and possibly telling him what to do in this situation. You are not helping anything when you tear down the leadership without any proof. There should have been more communication. I am not defending anybody here just calling you a person who isn't helping matters. I would support a grass roots style awakening of the membership but what you do to this Union is tear it down, time after time after time. I think if you channeled your passion in a positive way it would be more accepted. Get real.

 

[Jester]

Jester, don't assume that SayWhat isn't in the leadership. He is. I'm just not going to 'out' him. He's on the Delaney ticket also. So he's going to support Delaney all the way to the bank. Bottom line.

regards,

I am not asking anyone to "out" another person... personally, I believe that people like SayWhat who are running on a ticket and advocating a position should identify themselves, as you are rather open about it yourself much to your credit. As I am not running for any union position, nor do I have any intentions in doing so because of other commitments (and for the conspiracy kooks within the Board, I am not in any way part of Management), I have no obligation to identify myself to the Membership.

Are people like PJ and SayWhat afraid that if we knew their names, we would not vote for them in the elections? They are probably right. I do not think the Membership would vote for any sycophant who continues to defend the indefensible.

So Condemns Jester.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

You need to stop thinking about you and read what I posted. You post up a letter that supposedly has RD throwing the outsourced stations under the bus. That letter states that legal was aware and possibly telling him what to do in this situation. You are not helping anything when you tear down the leadership without any proof. There should have been more communication. I am not defending anybody here just calling you a person who isn't helping matters. I would support a grass roots style awakening of the membership but what you do to this Union is tear it down, time after time after time. I think if you channeled your passion in a positive way it would be more accepted. Get real.

I channeled my passion with a mission to build this district by being a part of bringing in 17,000 members. But the structure is completely lost in time. I'm proud of what I did on your dime but at the same time I realized that if we just keep changing names from Canale, to Delaney, to Nelson or whoever then it really wouldn't matter if we didn't bring in a platform that adapts this union into this century.

Delaney is comfortable with the paternal structure he has, therefore, I decided to exercise and build solidarity by invoking the nomination and election process that helps and keeps our officers accountable. It is a very worthy cause to have elections, even though you want to put a dirty face on them. You yourself are invoking the process by being on Delaney's ballot and I don't have a problem with that, just don't tell others to stand down when neither you, me, or Delaney have any entitlements to any job. Cripes, how is it any different for me to run for office, as opposed to Delaney? Maybe Delaney needs to stand down and let a more passionate energetic member who gets out of the office more than once a month take the plow.

At any rate, we do have to focus on getting our US AIRWAYS members more representation and I find it criminal that you support Delaney fully on taking one more US AIRWAYS spot from YOUR people. What do you tell your own members who are asking for more representation? You telling them to stand down and support Delaney and that maybe in the future Delaney will turn a new leaf and award more US AIRWAYS spots? Even as he removes one right now? And it doesn't help matters that now the LC CLT is going to have to fly out to SFO and be a pencil pusher reviewing expenses for the officers. Being a trustee will take the CLT LC away from representational matters and stick him in an office dealing with the administration expenses of all of the officers. The LC CLT is overqualified for trustee. It's an entry level position that has nothing to do with representation and has everything to do with pencil pushing expenses and checking members in at conventions. Doesn't make any sense. But it does show yet another way that Delaney treats US AIRWAYS members.

regards,