Fleet Service apathy

[roabilly]

Tim...

Just to clarify what I meant by "suspended"... I did not mean this in the context of it being mandatory under the RLA. What I meant was... the company simply would have no reason to further talks until they knew with who/whom they would be negotiating with.

Further, you are the one that stated negotiations will not produce a CBA for possibly TWO more years... now you are citing cases where T/A-CBA's were reached immediately after a merger announcement. Are you now claming that the ND folks could indeed get a contract much faster if a merger were added to the equation?

I'll give you this Tim... you are good at this stuff of twisting and convoluting statements to suit your agenda. That's your true talent... you have should been political consultant and campaign organizer for the Governmental Political System.

 

[saywhat]

Tim...

Just to clarify what I meant by "suspended"... I did not mean this in the context of it being mandatory under the RLA. What I meant was... the company simply would have no reason to further talks until they knew with who/whom they would be negotiating with.

Further, you are the one that stated negotiations will not produce a CBA for possibly TWO more years... now you are citing cases where CBA were reached immediately after a merger announcement. Are you now claming that the ND folks could indeed get contract much faster if a merger were to added to the equation?

I'll give you this Tim... you are good at this stuff of twisting and convoluting statements to suit your agenda. That's your true talent... you have should been political consultant and campaign organizer for the Governmental Political System.

What I find hard to understand is how there wouldn't be a delay in negotiations at both UA/CO and US based on the information TN has been saying. He claims that a lawyer will be brought in, an AGC removed etc. If TN were elected what would drive either company to meet with the negotiations teams until he took office in October?

 

[Tim Nelson]

What I find hard to understand is how there wouldn't be a delay in negotiations at both UA/CO and US based on the information TN has been saying. He claims that a lawyer will be brought in, an AGC removed etc. If TN were elected what would drive either company to meet with the negotiations teams until he took office in October?

Delay in what aspect? Why do you presume that a newly elected president will be on the sidelines until September? At any rate, why would you want a complete T/A signed right now anyways since you would have to have a substantial wage increase to just cover your losses that will be triggered under the IAM pension plan that will result in a 40% cut in future benefits? Also, what compels your company to sign anything quick? Are you suggesting that AH is going to grab us on the shoulder and stuff more money into our pockets when our union already agreed to a 2% pay cut on July 1?

SayWhat, you seem desperate. Besides, your union is only meeting once every other month with your company anyways so even in the worst case scenerio where the INTL lays down and I refuse to take part in anything before September, I would only miss one round of negotiations. And what's going to happen in one round of negotiations that is going to be so earth shattering?

Saywhat, your argument has absolutely no merit. And is the INTL going to disappear from June to September? As President elect, I will be in contact with Rich Delaney every step of the way after June and the INTL will make sure it is seamless. Me and Rich get along personally and I don't anticipate any sour grapes.

Video: Message to US AIRWAYS, United, Hawaiian

Onward!

 

[Jester]

What I find hard to understand is how there wouldn't be a delay in negotiations at both UA/CO and US based on the information TN has been saying. He claims that a lawyer will be brought in, an AGC removed etc. If TN were elected what would drive either company to meet with the negotiations teams until he took office in October?

I learned a long time ago, that the best deal you make may be the deal you didn’t make... I think that applies to labor contracts, investments, and marriage. I would rather wait for the good deal than be in a hurry for a bad deal.

After reading what Tim has presented in terms of the HA CBA as negotiated/approved by RD, as far as I am concerned, I am more than willing to wait and work under the existing contract until someone is competant to represent the Membership.

So Counters Jester.

 

[saywhat]

Delay in what aspect? Why do you presume that a newly elected president will be on the sidelines until September? At any rate, why would you want a complete T/A signed right now anyways since you would have to have a substantial wage increase to just cover your losses that will be triggered under the IAM pension plan that will result in a 40% cut in future benefits? Also, what compels your company to sign anything quick? Are you suggesting that AH is going to grab us on the shoulder and stuff more money into our pockets when our union already agreed to a 2% pay cut on July 1?

SayWhat, you seem desperate. Besides, your union is only meeting once every other month with your company anyways so even in the worst case scenerio where the INTL lays down and I refuse to take part in anything before September, I would only miss one round of negotiations. And what's going to happen in one round of negotiations that is going to be so earth shattering?

Saywhat, your argument has absolutely no merit. And is the INTL going to disappear from June to September? As President elect, I will be in contact with Rich Delaney every step of the way after June and the INTL will make sure it is seamless. Me and Rich get along personally and I don't anticipate any sour grapes.

Video: Message to US AIRWAYS, United, Hawaiian

Onward!

Are you serious? You have basically called RD a piece of crap, sell out etc. and if you win you will contact RD and make it a seamless transition because you get along. Do you think before you write? Get real narcissist.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim...

Just to clarify what I meant by "suspended"... I did not mean this in the context of it being mandatory under the RLA. What I meant was... the company simply would have no reason to further talks until they knew with who/whom they would be negotiating with.

Further, you are the one that stated negotiations will not produce a CBA for possibly TWO more years... now you are citing cases where T/A-CBA's were reached immediately after a merger announcement. Are you now claming that the ND folks could indeed get a contract much faster if a merger were added to the equation?

I'll give you this Tim... you are good at this stuff of twisting and convoluting statements to suit your agenda. That's your true talent... you have should been political consultant and campaign organizer for the Governmental Political System.

There isn't going to be any new contract at US AIRWAYS for the immediate future, regardless of who is president. That's what I said and that is the truth. The environment precludes the company and the union from signing anything hastily. I, personally, wouldn't want a quick contract at US AIRWAYS unless it contained a substantial wage increase and additional job protections that covered the 40% loss of your future IAM pension benefits, that would be triggered. I find that to be unlikely in a few short months with little to no solidarity. Besides, your company won't be jumping to stuff more money into your pockets since it already has the unions agreement to give you a 2% pay increase in July. I can't disprove those who drink the kool aid and think that somehow the union is going to gain a solid contract sometime soon, but I also can't disprove the flying spaghetti monster. Those who think we are going to get a solid contract this year are believing ND fairy tales. Exactly how is that done? I mean, how does a union get US AIRWAYS management to stuff money into your pocket without building solidarity?

At any rate, you quote mined me. What i cited were T/A's reached after a merger announcement that took a few years to get to. Although they were signed immediately after a merger announcement, the T/A's were exhaustive and took years to complete. And they were T/A's that were NOT the result of transition talks. The problem with the ND is that they float these merger talks into transition talks. And you can BANK on transition talks taking anywhere between 3-5 years...or longer. I have absolutely no desire to further a merger and enter transition talks without first getting considerations for our people. This is in sharp contrast to Delaney and is fact, with NOTHING twisted. I haven't twisted anything. Cripes, that's why I keep pointing you to UA/CO merger talks so you can get a grasp of what is going on, but for some reason, you refuse to engage in that and revert back to disrespectful rhetoric about Tim Nelson, equating me with a car salesman like agenda. Do us all a favor Roabily, and I don't mean this in a disrespectful sense, educate yourself on the previous ND negotiations. I know you personally and you are much brighter than I am but you do need to enhance your knowledge about things that address the 'why's' of this current predicament, ie., negotiations. If I am your President, we will NOT be supporting managements desire to further a merger into transition talks without first attaining considerations for our members. The ND will set you in transition talks and redo surveys, etc., because that is exactly the soft approach they took at UA/CO. And compare that to the AFA or IBT who entered transition talks ONLY after they attained $40 million in wage/benefit enhancements [afa], and $59 million for the MX. The ND got $0 and put out "IOU"s". So let me ask you again, would you support that? Do you support the ND stripping one more US AIRWAYS rep from its slate? Do you support your AGC standing down on it and also supporting PR who he despises? Do you support your own LC as a trustee when he is not only overqualified for that administration job but it will result in him being pulled out of CLT one week a month to go over expense reports that have nothing to do with grievances? Other than name, exactly what do you support I might ask? Because I betcha me and you support the exact same things but you balk since my name is attached.

And I have proposed a path to obtain such things, what has the ND proposed? Have they ever put out a platform? WHat is their plan to attain a leading industry contract? What is Delaney's negotiations experience, please cite references that are a witness to his negotiations experience? As I have said, I have much more negotiations experience than anyone currently sitting in the negotiations room.

One thing is certain Roabily, your union is obsolete. It's dead on arrival and fading fast. If it doesn't change now, who knows, in another decade it may be a fossil. And you can bust my balls all day but if we keep the present course then none of this really matters because you will not be getting anything remotely close to what you think is fair since the environment and structure of this union is not capable of building the slightest of solidarity that is needed to fight corporate greed at the nasty levels that we see with airlines.


Tim's Video to United, US AIRWAYS, and Hawaiian members

Onward!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Are you serious? You have basically called RD a piece of crap, sell out etc. and if you win you will contact RD and make it a seamless transition because you get along. Do you think before you write? Get real narcissist.

What I have said is that RD is a fraud. And he is, professionally speaking, based on the evidence of his actions as President. I challenge anyone to dispute this btw.

He has supported management by all accounts. That said, I have never called Delaney a piece of sh*&&. NEVER. I have not attacked him personally as a person and I have nothing personally against him as a human being. I maintain a professional relationship with him and others on his ballot. I have conversed with Delaney as recently as 5 days ago and we shook hands. What I have said is that he is probably a better human being than I am. And as recent as two weeks ago I gave him credit for winning the PCE campaign. I have no problem giving anyone credit where they deserve even if they are my opponent.

However, the situation is that he is on 'pride rock' and he is weak and non energetic, and I am challenging him for the spot. I fully intend to knock him out in the ring, and him likewise. But after the fight, what's the fuss? We shake hands. Besides, he will have to work with me also as my administration will have the authority to cash out vacations, etc for those parties who lose. Remember, these officers won't be vested in their Grand Lodge pension unless they have 4.5 years. I could cash out their vacations immediately, be a real prick, and send them all back to the ramp and screw them on their grand lodge pension accurals or I could be fair with them as I intend to be and allow them to take their vacation without cashing them out. Either way, they have vacation accruals built up.

OTOH, I don't take it personal when some on the ND team, exclusively the UA AGC's, have called me a piece of crap, handing out ballot cards at these nomination meetings. But, for the most part, most of us are still friends. And that's how I am. When I was the Director of Organizing, Delaney didn't want me to use Canale's people but I did. I used GB who was actually on Canale's ticket. Why? Because he was a good organizer. Even when I become President, I have to build teams that are inclusive of ND and previous Canale folks. Gone will be the days where you will have a president that says "F*&* You drink drano and die" because of political differences. The stakes are high because at UA, the IBT will be coming back and I have to make sure we include those that are passionate on the other side. At US AIRWAYS, if I don't include, I will risk our own members flirting with the TWU, presuming a AMR merger.

One thing that I pride myself on is that I was politically inclusive when I was a District leader, and I will continue to be politically inclusive when I am president. There is no other option when visioning the sorta solidarity that we need to build to fight corporate greed.

Look, what this all comes down to is that democracy invokes contentions, emotions, etc and necessarily has a dirty face, but elections are worth it. Without them, we don't further any issues that the masses have.

Onward!

 

[blue collar]

I learned a long time ago, that the best deal you make may be the deal you didn’t make... I think that applies to labor contracts, investments, and marriage. I would rather wait for the good deal than be in a hurry for a bad deal.

After reading what Tim has presented in terms of the HA CBA as negotiated/approved by RD, as far as I am concerned, I am more than willing to wait and work under the existing contract until someone is competant to represent the Membership.

So Counters Jester.

My, how things change in a short four years....

 

[john john]

My, how things change in a short four years....

What the heck does that mean

 

[700UW]

Funny you call him a fraud yet you were the one leading the charge for his election, ironic isnt it?

 

[ChockJockey]

Funny you call him a fraud yet you were the one leading the charge for his election, ironic isnt it?

I suppose I'd consider it ironic if I didn't know that such things were the norm in politics.

 

[blue collar]

What the heck does that mean

It means that 4 years ago he was saying to vote yes on your bad TA that sold out the outstations.

 

[ograc]

I learned a long time ago, that the best deal you make may be the deal you didn’t make... I think that applies to labor contracts, investments, and marriage. I would rather wait for the good deal than be in a hurry for a bad deal.

After reading what Tim has presented in terms of the HA CBA as negotiated/approved by RD, as far as I am concerned, I am more than willing to wait and work under the existing contract until someone is competant to represent the Membership.

So Counters Jester.

Jester,
Patience, is indeed, a great virtue. Especially in our case regarding the District elections. I do not buy into the argument, as proposed by the ND Team, if the membership chooses to endorse a new team of District Leaders, it will have some kind of adverse catastrophic affect on our current contract negotiations. It may, in fact, have an opposite and productive affect and outcome for our members. Let's try to remain open minded and focused on which team represents the (US & UA) members' best interests. I'm hopeful we will not let "scare tactics" mislead us in determining who the most qualified, dedicated and experienced candidates are in this election.

 

[Jester]

It means that 4 years ago he was saying to vote yes on your bad TA that sold out the outstations.

And yes, that TWU CBA just wasn't a bad agreement... that was a wretched, awful, terrible arrangement that the West was working under. In fact, it was pretty much comparable to what the P/T FSA are now working under with the HA CBA.

Was the TA a perfect agreement? Not for a second, in particular the outsourcing of stations... but it did provide for 4 years of recall rights, a pension, and a huge pay increase for West which for many came out to $10,000/year which was available to everyone, including those who would be displaced. An extra $10,000 per year in more pay would cause more than a few people to move to another station. However, if you thought about it... if you were working under the old East agreement, what would have been the cut-off in average mainline flights per week to be outsourced? I thought it was pretty much what you have right now, so it wouldn't have save cities like BUF. The TA hurt mostly the West stations, and at those rock bottom wages, the Company couldn't have found cheaper labor by outsourcing compared to the West TWU contract.

But the East didn't care... they had their decent enough agreement and the West would still be waiting for something, or worse yet, it would be working under a deal that RD cut using the HA CBA as a guide. However, I will blame Canale, because he pieced together a deal which allowed the outsourcing of stations where the bar as so high that stations like SNA which still has a fair number of flights could be outsourced, while stations like LAS have a lower cut-off. Also as I understood the situation, some of the stations were basically RJ's (non-mainline flights) which were using West FSAs, thus the TWU wouldn't have provided any protection if the Company decided to outsource.

So Corrects Jester.

 

[700UW]

Do you all realize the AGCs and members of US property negotiated that, not just Canale.

The AGCs and local members contribute significantly to the process and are probably doing more to negotiate than Canale and was Randy at all the session?