Fleet Service apathy

[necigrad]

I do not buy into the argument, as proposed by the ND Team, if the membership chooses to endorse a new team of District Leaders, it will have some kind of adverse catastrophic affect on our current contract negotiations. It may, in fact, have an opposite and productive affect and outcome for our members. Let's try to remain open minded and focused on which team represents the (US & UA) members' best interests. I'm hopeful we will not let "scare tactics" mislead us in determining who the most qualified, dedicated and experienced candidates are in this election.

That's reasonable, but remember that works both ways. Tim can just as easily be accused of scare tactics with all of his BS "first inning" baseball analogies. The simple fact is that Tim is talking and the ND isn't. You're only going to officially hear from the Occupy slate. Everything else you hear is what th DL puts out which is NOT the same as campaigning. Tim says he talks to the negotiating committee. Well, the neg committee posts their updates regularly, and it's not the same as TN would have you believe. Either the neg committee is lying to TN or TN is lying to us.

EDIT: Third possibility, the neg committee is lying to the membership.

 

[roabilly]

Tim...

Actually, I have educated myself... it all started about twenty years ago when I first learned about your "Big Picture" newsletter. After all those years... what is really amazing to me is that you are still saying today exactly the same thing as you did then!

We could almost use the exact language from one of those twenty year old papers today. All we would have to do is remove the name Freiberger and insert the name Delaney... or no wait... what was the other guys name... Chanle (Not Canale) or something like that? It's been a long time... so the name eludes me. Anyway... you have always used a "boogie-man" to direct all the attention to yourself by inflaming the membership with rhetoric. It's a modus operandi that repeats itself over and over... and it has been a common thread since I have known of you.

The fact of the matter is simple... you have been waging war on anybody, and everybody within the Leadership of the IAM regardless of who they are for decades! Have you ever sat back and thought... hmmmm... maybe it's me? Further, I am beginning to really question your motives... I'm not so certain that you are not attempting sabotage negations, and ultimately weaken our position. I'm not saying this because I'm running against you... or I have anything to gain from it... It's just my intuition and observation.

The only other plausible explanation is that you really think in your own mind that you actually are the answer to all of labors problems in the industry, and that you... and only YOU can make everything right! Tim... Look around... is the entire world wrong... and you are the only one that is right?

Sorry... if this offends you... but I have to be honest... no one else apparently has the nad's to do it... well maybe 700...

 

[700UW]

Ken Theide, oh I do.

Just like Tim forgets his "Big Picture" web page got him basically terminated, if it wasnt for the CLT AGC and GC he would have been fired.

But of course he denies this, yet I know as an officer of my local, I know JR and JC and GM saved his job.

And him using Mike Pruitt as President of FSWU or FSU which over acronym he chose for his union start up dejuer.

I would use Mike to represent a dog in front of the dog catcher, saw his grievances first hand, looked liked a third grader wrote it.

 

[saywhat]

Tim...

Actually, I have educated myself... it all started about twenty years ago when I first learned about your "Big Picture" newsletter. After all those years... what is really amazing to me is that you are still saying today exactly the same thing as you did then!

We could almost use the exact language from one of those twenty year old papers today. All we would have to do is remove the name Freiberger and insert the name Delaney... or no wait... what was the other guys name... Chanle (Not Canale) or something like that? It's been a long time... so the name eludes me. Anyway... you have always used a "boogie-man" to direct all the attention to yourself by inflaming the membership with rhetoric. It's a modus operandi that repeats itself over and over... and it has been a common thread since I have known of you.

The fact of the matter is simple... you have been waging war on anybody, and everybody within the Leadership of the IAM regardless of who they are for decades! Have you ever sat back and thought... hmmmm... maybe it's me? Further, I am beginning to really question your motives... I'm not so certain that you are not attempting sabotage negations, and ultimately weaken our position. I'm not saying this because I'm running against you... or I have anything to gain from it... It's just my intuition and observation.

The only other plausible explanation is that you really think in your own mind that you actually are the answer to all of labors problems in the industry, and that you... and only YOU can make everything right! Tim... Look around... is the entire world wrong... and you are the only one that is right?

Sorry... if this offends you... but I have to be honest... no one else apparently has the nad's to do it... well maybe 700...

I must agree with this assessment, I could buy into him coming out and saying we need to gain solidarity and the way to do this is to do a,b,c and d. Not, we have to throw out everybody because they all suck and my narcissitic arse needs me and all these new people to do it. Get real narcissist.

 

[Jester]

Do you all realize the AGCs and members of US property negotiated that, not just Canale.

The AGCs and local members contribute significantly to the process and are probably doing more to negotiate than Canale and was Randy at all the session?

As I understand it, there was a fair amount of one-on-one private deal making with Canale and the Management away from the Negotiation Committee. Once he hammered out a deal, I doubt anyone was going to balk and tell "Boss" Canale that was not fair to the smaller stations subject to being outsourced. The title of "Boss" was well earned as homage to Tweed, Long and Daley -- besides whoever is the Grand Sachem has the final say to kill any deal.

So Recites Jester.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim...

Actually, I have educated myself... it all started about twenty years ago when I first learned about your "Big Picture" newsletter. After all those years... what is really amazing to me is that you are still saying today exactly the same thing as you did then!

We could almost use the exact language from one of those twenty year old papers today. All we would have to do is remove the name Freiberger and insert the name Delaney... or no wait... what was the other guys name... Chanle (Not Canale) or something like that? It's been a long time... so the name eludes me. Anyway... you have always used a "boogie-man" to direct all the attention to yourself by inflaming the membership with rhetoric. It's a modus operandi that repeats itself over and over... and it has been a common thread since I have known of you.

The fact of the matter is simple... you have been waging war on anybody, and everybody within the Leadership of the IAM regardless of who they are for decades! Have you ever sat back and thought... hmmmm... maybe it's me? Further, I am beginning to really question your motives... I'm not so certain that you are not attempting sabotage negations, and ultimately weaken our position. I'm not saying this because I'm running against you... or I have anything to gain from it... It's just my intuition and observation.

The only other plausible explanation is that you really think in your own mind that you actually are the answer to all of labors problems in the industry, and that you... and only YOU can make everything right! Tim... Look around... is the entire world wrong... and you are the only one that is right?

Sorry... if this offends you... but I have to be honest... no one else apparently has the nad's to do it... well maybe 700...

Roabily,

LOL. That was funny Roabily. But, our US AIRWAYS members have never been taken care of. The structure of this union is broke and it's fading. The Big Pictures were a great newsletter that saved your job and is the main reason why you are still in catering. Back in the day of Frieberger, 1998, he signed the first IAM contract that did not include any protections for catering. I led a nationwide shut down of that contract, opened up phone lines, web pages, and the Big Picture newsletter. I spent no money, just passion. I also went in the newspapers like the Charlotte Observer and Pittsburgh post gazette challenging Frieberger openly. We were successful in shutting down that contract and putting more leverage in the union hands. 6 months later, we got a slight boost in pay over $20.08, and got the catering protections you needed. We also moved the district forward by eliminating Canale. Again, I was instrumental in that and I'm proud of that accomplishment. Canale was evil as no labor person would sign a contract that cuts pay for small stations and ushers in pay seniority. Never mind that you have fallen tons behind the CWA contract.

Delaney picked up where Canale left off at but is no worse. But you want to talk about the Big Picture, which fought for justice, as you refuse to talk about the actual contracts that Delaney signed? That's a bit unfair, isn't it? And you never answered my question if you agree in supporting MF that US AIRWAYS should have even less representatives? Yep, Delaney's commitment to you is less reps. lol

At any rate, you should also consider that I did actually have a District leadership job leading an entire department and was very successful in doing so on your dime. I know how to do the job and have proven leadership at the District level. And I owe it to myself and the membership to take that leadership success and challenge Delaney for President. My leadership contains all the things that Delaneny's doesn't. I was 24/7 because that's how you have to do these jobs. Delaney was 9-5, bottom line. Cripes, the guy never left his office and only spent $6,000 in per diems because he went to 3 conventions and a couple hot dog parties. My per diem was $30,000 because I spent 250 nights in hotels. As President, that's how it has to be, my office has to continue to be my laptop and I have to get out in the field and be with the masses and build them up strong.

Delaney is void of passion, energy, belief, etc. and his non energetic [ness] is going to continue the inept leadership that we have come to know since we have been IAM members. His paternal style and non transparency is also killing this union.

No, Roabily, I do not have all the answers but I know how to bring this union into this century. I know how to play to win but management is formidable. I know what I have to do and what kind of solidarity is needed when we put fleet service under the lights and play to win. And I think the members will respond but we have to build a relationship with them that is strong, inclusive, transparent, etc. The alternative is to keep the insanity of a broken paternal structure that simply does NOT work in this century. Sorry, Roabily, but things are a bit more academic than 'my agc's are better than yours' as we have to get away from the current non academic mentality that is absolutely killing this union. And it really doesn't matter which airline we are talking about. Nothing matters if we proceed on the current collision course. This union will eventually be rendered irrelevant, much like IAM 142 at Air Wisconsin.

BTW, Roabily, you are not offending me.

Onward Occupy 141!

 

[Tim Nelson]

As I understand it, there was a fair amount of one-on-one private deal making with Canale and the Management away from the Negotiation Committee. Once he hammered out a deal, I doubt anyone was going to balk and tell "Boss" Canale that was not fair to the smaller stations subject to being outsourced. The title of "Boss" was well earned as homage to Tweed, Long and Daley -- besides whoever is the Grand Sachem has the final say to kill any deal.

So Recites Jester.

Actually, the negotiations team, itself, has no authority. Only the president. Canale had tons of sidebars and that's where deals are made. Same with Delaney. UA management came to the District offices all the time as Delaney met with them in side bars in the executive room across my office. With HAL, Delaney was on numorous, countless, calls working out deals. The whole part time sellout was a direct result of HAL management telling him that they were going to pull article 21 which protected the IAM from an IBT raid. HAL management knew that the IBT just pimped our Aloha members and that the IBT was hot on the trail for HAL. So the qui pro quo was that HAL management would allow the grievance procedure to be waived and could discipline an employee who was subversive to the IAM...all without allowing the employee the grievance procedure. Actually, it's terrible that Delaney actually signed that also but it helped protect the dues for the IAM, and the qui pro quo was that Delaney had to agree to incorporate the anti union ready reserve from Delta airlines.

Same with US AIRWAYS. The negotiations leading up to the lockout were sidebars that circumvented the negotiations team. When ND supporters claim that Delaney isn't really involved in negotiations or really doesn't know what is being signed, the truth is the exact opposite. In fact, Delaney's signatures, contained on all his agreements, are so awful that the ND supporters have to claim that Delaney is a bubbling idiot who doesn't know what his AGC's are doing. Either that, or the ND supporters have to scramble and revert to the "Get Nelson" Campaign to divert the incompetence of Delaney.

Onward!

 

[roabilly]

As I understand it, there was a fair amount of one-on-one private deal making with Canale and the Management away from the Negotiation Committee. Once he hammered out a deal, I doubt anyone was going to balk and tell "Boss" Canale that was not fair to the smaller stations subject to being outsourced. The title of "Boss" was well earned as homage to Tweed, Long and Daley -- besides whoever is the Grand Sachem has the final say to kill any deal.

So Recites Jester.

Give-up the charade... I know who you are...

 

[Jester]

Give-up the charade... I know who you are...

Thanks, Mr. Roabilly... that was my first laugh of the day!

I most assure you that I am an absolute nobody within the company, the union or anything else associated with this organization directly or indirectly. In fact, I am probably less than nothing, so I doubt you know me as we live thousands of miles apart from each other.

But just curious... who do you think I am?

So Chortles Jester.

 

[700UW]

As I understand it, there was a fair amount of one-on-one private deal making with Canale and the Management away from the Negotiation Committee. Once he hammered out a deal, I doubt anyone was going to balk and tell "Boss" Canale that was not fair to the smaller stations subject to being outsourced. The title of "Boss" was well earned as homage to Tweed, Long and Daley -- besides whoever is the Grand Sachem has the final say to kill any deal.

So Recites Jester.

And we know you don't like the IAM, and we all know your just repeating what Tim has posted, and Tim hasn't given proffer of his listings.

 

[Jester]

And we know you don't like the IAM, and we all know your just repeating what Tim has posted, and Tim hasn't given proffer of his listings.

Then please explain this 'democratic' process of the IAM negotiation committee? Let's assume an agreement is worked-out by whatever means, does the Committee now vote on the matter as to making it a TA to be submitted to the Membership? If so, is it a simple majority, unanimous consent, or some type of super majority of the Committee required, and would it be done so without intimidation or threats?

I have a feeling that's not how the Negotiation Committee works. I suspect the only approval required is that of the President who has the plausible deniability of blaming the Committee, and better yet, the Membership who voted on the TA after AGC's conduct their mandatory cajoling and arm-twisting campaign. Generally speaking, I suspect most TAs are ratified because no one wants to go back to the negotiating table, as it requires a great deal of effort and the Membership wants the certainty of a new agreement.

So as you are the resident expert on all things IAM, please discuss the process and correct me, as necessary, as to the egalitarian decision making and voting of the negotiation committee as it relates to an eventual TA?

So Requests Jester.

 

[700UW]

Fleet and M&R on more than one occasion have voted a CBA down and gone back for more talks.

I cant speak for how 141 operates, but the whole committee usually has to vote to send it out, yes the President can send it out anyhow, but then the committee members can speak out against it.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Thanks, Mr. Roabilly... that was my first laugh of the day!

I most assure you that I am an absolute nobody within the company, the union or anything else associated with this organization directly or indirectly. In fact, I am probably less than nothing, so I doubt you know me as we live thousands of miles apart from each other.

But just curious... who do you think I am?

So Chortles Jester.

I also am curious as to who Roabily 'sees' as Jester?

I'll bring the popcorn! Sheesh!

 

[mike33]

Bottom Line for me is plain and very simple. I'm with this ND till we get our first contract from them period. Say what you want but thats my decision and I'm sticking to it. What should probably happen is the elections should be held in the middle of a contract so we have some good information to go by. IE, whats in print. All this other squabbling is just venting as far as I'm concerned!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Bottom Line for me is plain and very simple. I'm with this ND till we get our first contract from them period. Say what you want but thats my decision and I'm sticking to it. What should probably happen is the elections should be held in the middle of a contract so we have some good information to go by. IE, whats in print. All this other squabbling is just venting as far as I'm concerned!

To the audience. What Mike is saying is that he refuses to consider the ND negotiations over the past 4 years and how they single handedly destroyed things at HAL, and UA/CO and that he is willing to blindly keep a starting pitcher in the game that is getting blown up in the first inning, in hopes that maybe he finally 'gets his arm'.

What will happen is this. If Delaney wins, you will be stuck with a UA president who doesn't give a rats arse about US AIRWAYS and if he doesn't horse trade the group for the mechanics in any merger, he will certainly throw the group into transition talks like he always does in mergers and wish all of you away for a very long time before any contract is signed. And along the way, hopefully, you don't lose whatever seniority you may have left to the TWU. Delaney will not fight and he has absolutely no passion, no energy, and no fight in him. Period.

Nobody is going to get a fair contract under this broken structure of this union, unless you gain a President that knows how to fix and build a structure that brings this nasty paternalistic structure into this century. Mike wants to continue negotiations with no attorneys or professionals to be present in negotiations and believes that the negotiators are fully capable against corporate attorneys. Mike also is saying that he rejects transparency and enjoys US AIRWAYS as being only second best to United. He also is saying that he wants to lose more US AIRWAYS representatives since he supports Delaney's ticket.

What Mike can't do and hasn't done is anything other than using hope as a strategy. He can't point to anything that the ND has done. Nothing. Nothing over 4 years and it doesnt' matter which airline you are talking about. Nothing. Hope should never be a strategy. Decisions should be based on actions and what a group or an individual has actually done on the scoreboard. And the scoreboard shows a big fat zero for Delaney as he consistently gives leverage to the company. Bottom line.

Onward!