Fleet Service apathy

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

You have been claiming how wonderful of a job you did on our dime in organizing Airtran and CO. The reality of the situation is that you filed short of cards with Airtran which in the end screwed them out of being Union for more than a year. Plus, anyone could have organized them with how beaten down they were especially if you add the fact that the LUV merger was looming and they knew they needed protection. Now regarding CO, that was a no brainer when comparing contracts. Common man, let's get real here.

I stand on my victories. I have no problem with you dissecting them and trying to discount the Head Coach. It's like watching a football team that wins, and afterwards the opposing fans discount the winning team and say that they didn't deserve to win or that the losing team was actually better. But hey, a victory is a victory and only losers sit there and discount the scoreboard.

Knock your socks off SayWhat but what you should be doing is instead of discounting what I have done on your dime, i.e, a winner by all accounts, you should give me credit for doing some things right instead of being incredibly biased and painting me as someone with my finger up my arse.

Onward!

 

[saywhat]

I stand on my victories. I have no problem with you dissecting them and trying to discount the Head Coach. It's like watching a football team that wins, and afterwards the opposing fans discount the winning team and say that they didn't deserve to win or that the losing team was actually better. But hey, a victory is a victory and only losers sit there and discount the scoreboard.

Knock your socks off SayWhat but what you should be doing is instead of discounting what I have done on your dime, i.e, a winner by all accounts, you should give me credit for doing some things right instead of being incredibly biased and painting me as someone with my finger up my arse.

Onward!

Tim,

I expect you to do nothing but to praise yourself once again but the reality of the situation is that the momentum at Air Tran switched once the LUV merger was announced and you did file short of cards and screw them. CO's IBT contract was garbage and it would've taken a monumental screwing up to lose that one.

Once you left the PCE people at UA/CO seemed to have no problem voting IAM without you. Oh how did those poor people do it without you? Get real.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
What "self-imposed" qualifications are you talking about. You yourself started the step 2 and 3 argument in your post #731 by implying that AGC's handle both Step 2 and Step 3. You and I both know that there really is no difference in the steps, just who hears them. Heck, IMO, the whole grievance process is tainted with bias on the company side anyway. And as far making the AGC's glorified local chairmen, that is YOUR idea, in having an attorney assist in EVERY step 3, thats exactly what you reduce them to. Because the attorney's argument isn't gonna change from the step 3 hearing to arbitration is it? Seems like the great and powerful OZ, aint so great and powerful once his curtain is pulled away and his "magic" is proved to be nothing more than parlor tricks. Now you can put your "snake-oil" spin on it Tim, because thats what you do, you spin.

I'm glad we agree that there really is no material difference between step 2's and step 3's. And I also agree with your admission that there 'really is no difference between the steps, just who hears them." That was my point. And it really doesn't matter if it's step 3, step 2, or step 1. Only the names change. The person who is capable at step 1 is just as capable at step 3. That can be applied to MF, Billy Kline, etc. Right?

The problem with the step system lies in arbitration where any fair minded person would have to conclude that no present AGC's, or any of mine, are fully capable and equipped going against a seasoned RLA attorney that has graduated from a "Top" university and has a continuing education of at least 12+ formal years! IMO, to say otherwise, is to be intellectually dishonest or ignorant. There is a reason why the company has an attorney on its side of the table. I've hard Delaney say that he doesn't need an attorney because he knows how to fix everything. Our AGC's also say that they don't need an attorney because they have been to the IAM school and have been badged with some 'participation certificates'. Puh leeeassseeeeeee!

Listen, PJ, my argument isn't that "My AGC's are better than yours". My argument is that all AGC's and Presidents are set up to fail unless we change the structure and bring in professionals like other unions do to assist their representatives. Our leadership gets their arses kicked and will continue to do so because they are not capable going to a gunfight with a cave man club. I'm not going to do my AGC's and the members like that.
Nobody is discounting the AGC's, I'm just going to surround them with professional assistence as an added resource that actually saves money. Same with me. When in negotiations, by insourcing our already legal expenses, I'm going to have an attorney by my side....not to negotiate but to provide professional advice on terminology and clarifications of legal words. AGC's will also still be doing the legwork of investigating grievances and preparing them. As Head Coach, my job will be to make sure I give the members AGC's the necessary resources to do the job successfully. It's the biggest no brainer since the Lord created this planet!

Again, this isn't about changing names only. If so, then I'm not going to be any better than Delaney. I've already seen that whether it's Canale, Delaney, or even Nelson, NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE unless we fix the structure and bring things into this century. If we don't do that then NOTHING is gonig to change and our members are going to still keep getting their collective arses kicked by a management team that clearly doesn't respect them. Although it's moral for management to respect our membership, how can it when the union operates in a closed system that breeds ignorance, arrogance, and a grand delusion? I've heard Delaney say, "I don't need an attorney", and our AGC's say the same. Something is inherently wrong with that when our representatives, who may be brighter than me, believe that they are Perry Mason even though most of them have nothing more than a high school diploma and a few participation certificates from the IAM. We have to stop the insanity of just repeating the same things over and over again without changing the structure.

Here are the changes and fresh ideas that I am talking about ClickIAM 141 Playing to Win

Onward!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim…

It is clear to anyone reading here that you attempt to wear your opponents down with mental/verbal attrition, and Red Herrings. I’ve know of you for almost 20 years and you have always been obsessed with turning the Membership against the Leadership. It’s just that simple… you will never give-up until you are in charge will you?

Further, I think the AGC education issue has been argued long enough… you know what I said… you know what I presented to substantiate my case… and you also know why you don’t want to admit it. It simply did not FIT your political agenda to concur that educating your entire team would chronologically set us back, and consume financial resources!

You will never admit this will you? Further, I want you, and everyone reading that I do not hate you-- nor I do not love Delaney etc. I’m a dues paying member that will get involved if I perceive a threat to our focus, and that is what you have accomplished… you have diverted focus from the objective at hand...

P.S. Do you realize you answered my question with more questions... again? I find it almost humorous... and I say "almost" because of the ramifications. If I were an outside observer with no interest in this... it would be hilarious... I have a character in mind for future creative work... if nothing else you have served as a muse.

Well, one thing is sure, you are not just an outside observer with no interest. You have provided professional services and worked with Dave Atkinson. So, I think the audience needs to be clarified that you have had a professional relationship with the ND.

As far as the leadership...the leadership as we have known it has been exclusively Canale until all of us decided that Canale must go. I think it was the right thing to do, ie., vote out Canale. And the vast majority agreed with that. The problem is that the structure of this district is based on one that may have worked in the 1940's but certainly isn't capable at all of working in this century. So, no matter who the President or AGC is, they are all set up to fail. It's a fatal fail. Therefore, it makes no sense to keep the same obsolete structure. We must fix it and adapt this union to this brave new world. And I'm willing to do it, so I owe it to myself and to the membership to upgrade the union out of its obsolete[ness] and into this century. There is a reason why our membership is dialed out and it has everything to do with them not being empowered whatsoever. Negotiations and leverage must necessarily start with the relationship between the leadership and the masses. Right now, that relationship is awol. And we can't tolerate that.

The Platform of Change

Onward!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

I expect you to do nothing but to praise yourself once again but the reality of the situation is that the momentum at Air Tran switched once the LUV merger was announced and you did file short of cards and screw them. CO's IBT contract was garbage and it would've taken a monumental screwing up to lose that one.

Once you left the PCE people at UA/CO seemed to have no problem voting IAM without you. Oh how did those poor people do it without you? Get real.

I make no apolgies for winning strategies SayWhat. Again, Dissect the scoreboard all day, I have no interest in furthering that argument. As far as PCE, I was not at all surprised that PCE won. In 2008, I rejected the IAM's organizing 101 methodology because it was obsolete and useless. The witness to that was that over 80,000 airline employees voted us out over the last 10 years before I led the Organizing Department. Unfortunately, the result of all the terrible losses ended up affecting our IAM members at US AIRWAYS in the form of lower pension payouts. When our members at Northwest finally voted us out on December 10th, it triggered the "Drop Dead" letter from the IAM on December 13 that told our members, "Tuffa Lucka" on your pension.

Enter my organizing techniques that gave us the winning edge with fresh ideas that adapted the obsolete IAM organizing into an incredible machine. And we turned the tide. Along the way, I blazed the path so that others could see and take my organizing strategies and have similar success. The strategies and ideas work! Separate from Tim Nelson.

And the same will be true with representation. I already cleaned up the organizing of the IAM and brought it up to date, and now I will be cleaning up the representational arm and blazing a new path that adapts our union to this century. Along the way, I can guarantee you that someone will incorporate and mimic my ideas and will enter the same path and posssibly run against me in 4 years. But, in any case, the path will be blazed and the ideas are exclusive of me and stand on their own.

The tools I left the IAM 141 in organizing still work, regardless of how is using them. So, winning the PCE campaign is the exact sorta thing I would have expected. I didn't have to be there...they had the tools to succeed!

Onward!

 

[saywhat]

I make no apolgies for winning strategies SayWhat. Again, Dissect the scoreboard all day, I have no interest in furthering that argument. As far as PCE, I was not at all surprised that PCE won. In 2008, I rejected the IAM's organizing 101 methodology because it was obsolete and useless. The witness to that was that over 80,000 airline employees voted us out over the last 10 years before I led the Organizing Department. Unfortunately, the result of all the terrible losses ended up affecting our IAM members at US AIRWAYS in the form of lower pension payouts. When our members at Northwest finally voted us out on December 10th, it triggered the "Drop Dead" letter from the IAM on December 13 that told our members, "Tuffa Lucka" on your pension.

Enter my organizing techniques that gave us the winning edge with fresh ideas that adapted the obsolete IAM organizing into an incredible machine. And we turned the tide. Along the way, I blazed the path so that others could see and take my organizing strategies and have similar success. The strategies and ideas work! Separate from Tim Nelson.

And the same will be true with representation. I already cleaned up the organizing of the IAM and brought it up to date, and now I will be cleaning up the representational arm and blazing a new path that adapts our union to this century. Along the way, I can guarantee you that someone will incorporate and mimic my ideas and will enter the same path and posssibly run against me in 4 years. But, in any case, the path will be blazed and the ideas are exclusive of me and stand on their own.

The tools I left the IAM 141 in organizing still work, regardless of how is using them. So, winning the PCE campaign is the exact sorta thing I would have expected. I didn't have to be there...they had the tools to succeed!

Onward!

Tim,

What made me ever think you were a narcissist? You are taking credit for PCE because you left tools behind? You screwed the Air tran people by filing short of cards which cost them dearly for over a year. You don't want to admit that anyone would have won those elections under the circumstances because that would be knocking yourself. Get real.

 

[700UW]

The structure is set by the International, the IAM Constitution and the DL 141 Bylaws, you wont be able to change anything that would conflict with those.

And dont forget the International pays 50% of the salaries of the PDGC and the AGCs.

Are you going to risk this cause of this is how "Tim" thinks it should be done?

 

[roabilly]

Well, one thing is sure, you are not just an outside observer with no interest. You have provided professional services and worked with Dave Atkinson. So, I think the audience needs to be clarified that you have had a professional relationship with the ND.

Hey Tim...

I had a professional relationship with YOU as well as the N/D... h*** you WERE the N/D! So don't attempt to imply that I have a vested interest in supporting the current administration. I actually did more work with YOU than anyone... if I were biased on that premise... I'd be kissin' your butt tryin' to get more... and higher caliber work once I got you into office!

Tim... ain't no doubt about it... you the master of SPIN!

 

[Dog Wonder]

I stand on my victories with my finger up my arse.

Onward!

Both of them?

Do you also stand on your, too many to count, defeats?

Carry on.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Both of them?

Do you also stand on your, too many to count, defeats.

Carry on.

Absolutely!

I had two elections encompassing 17,000 voters and we filled a basketball arena with two IAM wins under my Direction. Ford and Harrison and Airtran spent $25 million against us and we still won. And I think the IBT outspent us 10 to 1 because they thought they were going to win. They didn't. If you are going to attack me, then I don't think your position is supported at all over my time that I spent on your dime since I did exactly what I said I was going to do. Never mind that it was at a time when everyone couldn't just wait to vote out the IAM. We did it!

Onward!

 

[Dog Wonder]

Did you miss the second question?

Carry on.

 

[700UW]

Funny how he fails to mention, UA Ramp were all ready IAM, he wasnt organizing a non-union group, as well as CO ramp was IBT.

Little details.

 

[Dog Wonder]

His victories are the result of his own dedication, hard work, and genius.

His defeats, which far outnumber his victories, are some one else's fault.

Carry on.

 

[pjirish317]

I'm glad we agree that there really is no material difference between step 2's and step 3's. And I also agree with your admission that there 'really is no difference between the steps, just who hears them." That was my point. And it really doesn't matter if it's step 3, step 2, or step 1. Only the names change. The person who is capable at step 1 is just as capable at step 3. That can be applied to MF, Billy Kline, etc. Right?

The problem with the step system lies in arbitration where any fair minded person would have to conclude that no present AGC's, or any of mine, are fully capable and equipped going against a seasoned RLA attorney that has graduated from a "Top" university and has a continuing education of at least 12+ formal years! IMO, to say otherwise, is to be intellectually dishonest or ignorant. There is a reason why the company has an attorney on its side of the table. I've hard Delaney say that he doesn't need an attorney because he knows how to fix everything. Our AGC's also say that they don't need an attorney because they have been to the IAM school and have been badged with some 'participation certificates'. Puh leeeassseeeeeee!

Listen, PJ, my argument isn't that "My AGC's are better than yours". My argument is that all AGC's and Presidents are set up to fail unless we change the structure and bring in professionals like other unions do to assist their representatives. Our leadership gets their arses kicked and will continue to do so because they are not capable going to a gunfight with a cave man club. I'm not going to do my AGC's and the members like that.
Nobody is discounting the AGC's, I'm just going to surround them with professional assistence as an added resource that actually saves money. Same with me. When in negotiations, by insourcing our already legal expenses, I'm going to have an attorney by my side....not to negotiate but to provide professional advice on terminology and clarifications of legal words. AGC's will also still be doing the legwork of investigating grievances and preparing them. As Head Coach, my job will be to make sure I give the members AGC's the necessary resources to do the job successfully. It's the biggest no brainer since the Lord created this planet!

Again, this isn't about changing names only. If so, then I'm not going to be any better than Delaney. I've already seen that whether it's Canale, Delaney, or even Nelson, NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE unless we fix the structure and bring things into this century. If we don't do that then NOTHING is gonig to change and our members are going to still keep getting their collective arses kicked by a management team that clearly doesn't respect them. Although it's moral for management to respect our membership, how can it when the union operates in a closed system that breeds ignorance, arrogance, and a grand delusion? I've heard Delaney say, "I don't need an attorney", and our AGC's say the same. Something is inherently wrong with that when our representatives, who may be brighter than me, believe that they are Perry Mason even though most of them have nothing more than a high school diploma and a few participation certificates from the IAM. We have to stop the insanity of just repeating the same things over and over again without changing the structure.

Here are the changes and fresh ideas that I am talking about ClickIAM 141 Playing to Win

Onward!

Tim,

Again, what "self-imposed" qualifications are you refering to with me? That was my first question. But in typical Tim spin, you choose to answer only a part of the question, the part that suites your argument, and disregard the rest. Why is that I wonder? But I will say that there is a HUGE difference between BK and MF, like apples and oranges. And if I had to choose your AGC's or FO, NH, MF, I would choose any of those 3 seven days a week and twice on sunday. BTW, you are exactly saying that the people running for AGC on your ticket are better than the current ones, but that is only because you are gonna coddle them with the aid of an attorney so they can "walk the beakrooms". So basically you have GLORIFIED orginizers as our AGC's. Gophers for your in-house attorney. BS artists if you will. The only person you have running for AGC on the US side that might be compentant enough to do the job is the other TN. MAYBE. I mean really why have them if the attorney is going to present the case at the Step 3 level and at arbitration? The Local Chairs can get everything ready for the attorney can't they? You also never answered how this attorney will travel to EVERY SINGLE STEP 3 HEARING AROUND THE SYSTEM? Please enlighten me as to this fact? Let me know before you answer so I can take some motion sickness medicine, the spin really gets to me.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The structure is set by the International, the IAM Constitution and the DL 141 Bylaws, you wont be able to change anything that would conflict with those.

And dont forget the International pays 50% of the salaries of the PDGC and the AGCs.

Are you going to risk this cause of this is how "Tim" thinks it should be done?

Risk what 700? We aren't doing anything against any bylaws. And you are right that the INTL does pay 50%, cripes, that's good! What's your fuss?

"Give backs and Legal Services"

Onward!