Fleet Service apathy

[necigrad]

Will you consider that you may be wrong and that $400,000 back to the members is a worthy act to do?

Assuming this is the "givebacks", until you have a legally binding agreement from every person elected this is phantom money. You're counting money that you MIGHT get IF your people get elected. Even then there are at least two members on the Occupy ticket that have stated they refuse to participate in this. You can NOT talk about this money as a sure thing. It's not.

My understanding is this will not be an option... you either vote Tim's ticket top to bottom... or you vote N/D top to bottom... no mix and match... I know there are a lot of members in CLT that are under the impression it will be mixed ballot... we need clarification!

You can vote for whoever you want. ND, Occupy, the other ticket, or anyone running that isn't on a ticket. The key is you must vote for the number of positions that are open. For example: Tim has his ticket. Let's say you like half the guys running on it for AGC, but not all. Vote for those half, then the half from elsewhere you like. Like Tims ticket, but prefer RD over Tim? Vote for his ticket and RD or whoever else is running for Pres. If there's 10 AGC slots you must vote for 10 AGCs. Where they are from is irrelevant.

 

[ograc]

Roabilly,

This is an interesting subject. You do NOT have to vote for one ticket and you CAN mix and match as long as you vote for the correct amount in each position. Here's where it gets interesting. Every LL will vote on a different day in June and for example if a predominant US station like CLT votes all US people on say June 9th and a predominant UA station like say ORD votes on June 11th there can be a payback which will never benefit US because we are trumped by UA in size. I sure hope US employees don't go down a path which may cause even more pain. Slates are generally IMO the best route to go when you are trying to balance things out.

saywhat,
You can mix and match between slates but all three slates have more UA candidates than US candidates. By the numbers US elected candidates will not outnumber UA elected candidates regardless of who gets elected. This is in direct proportion to the members represented by DL 141. UA members outnumber US members by more than a two to one margin. Let's not be fooled we have a chance, that US members, as a result of their vote in June, will "take control" of DL 141. IMO this is another divisive issue, raised by one ticket, that pits on side against another in order to obtain votes. The UA members, and their subsequent representation within the District, should not be an issue. Our UA Sisters and Brothers are not the enemy. Divisiveness, and slates that promote it within the membership for political gain, need to be brought to the light and held accountable for their actions in June. IMO slates are the way to vote. This is based on the presumption that each slate chooses to surround themselves and supports everyone on their slate.
ograc

 

[700UW]

Now I think it is time to clarify something... saywhat... Tim... 700... can any of you help me with this?

My understanding is this will not be an option... you either vote Tim's ticket top to bottom... or you vote N/D top to bottom... no mix and match...
I know there are a lot of members in CLT that are under the impression it will be mixed ballot... we need clarification!

This is HUGE... and will make a BIG difference in how this election plays out!

You can vote for anyone on the ballot, you just have to vote for the required amount of people for each office.

 

[saywhat]

saywhat,
You can mix and match between slates but all three slates have more UA candidates than US candidates. By the numbers US elected candidates will not outnumber UA elected candidates regardless of who gets elected. This is in direct proportion to the members represented by DL 141. UA members outnumber US members by more than a two to one margin. Let's not be fooled we have a chance, that US members, as a result of their vote in June, will "take control" of DL 141. IMO this is another divisive issue, raised by one ticket, that pits on side against another in order to obtain votes. The UA members, and their subsequent representation within the District, should not be an issue. Our UA Sisters and Brothers are not the enemy. Divisiveness, and slates that promote it within the membership for political gain, need to be brought to the light and held accountable for their actions in June. IMO slates are the way to vote. This is based on the presumption that each slate chooses to surround themselves and supports everyone on their slate.
ograc

I think you missed my point. If a US city decided to vote for just the US employees on the various slates this could backfire. The UA cities that vote later could vote for just UA candidates and since they outnumber US by 4 to 1 we could possibly get no US people elected. Hence, I believe sticking to a slate best.

 

[roabilly]

I think you missed my point. If a US city decided to vote for just the US employees on the various slates this could backfire. The UA cities that vote later could vote for just UA candidates and since they outnumber US by 4 to 1 we could possibly get no US people elected. Hence, I believe sticking to a slate best.

OK.. So…We have determined that it will NOT be mandatory to vote a straight slate. Now… this brings me to a whole new scenario and set of questions. Let’s just say… I want to keep “most” of the AGC’s that we currently have… and then for some weird reason, or by mistake... I vote for Tim as President. What then happens to the give-back pledge that Tim is using to garner support for his ticket?

Example: The AGC’s I want to keep, do not support the occupy agenda… and have not signed a letter of intent to give a portion of their pay back. Now… does anybody here really think that if one or two of Tim’s AGC’s were elected, they would actually follow through with this promise... while the others enjoyed the full salary benefit for their hard work and travel?

The occupy agenda is full of more holes than bin-Laden!

Tim… drop the give-back farce… it won’t work… it’s a false promise at best… and a shady campaign gimmick at worst! Any president that deserves my respect and vote would not even engage in this type of campaigning!

 

[roabilly]

I think you missed my point. If a US city decided to vote for just the US employees on the various slates this could backfire. The UA cities that vote later could vote for just UA candidates and since they outnumber US by 4 to 1 we could possibly get no US people elected. Hence, I believe sticking to a slate best.

I think I understand your observation... it could... and most likely would incite a "pissing match" between UA and US... or at the very least... a struggle for representational majority if we were to attempt to "mix and match"...

I will definitely vote slate!

 

[roabilly]

The IAM US needs to produce a contract worthy of keeping them on the property or at lest better then AA TWU

The AA TWU agreement is about to be abrogated... I don't think it would serve as a good bench mark for the IAM to match it once that happens.

Read this official TWU response!

 

[Tim Nelson]

If clt votes on one day and ord on another, who is leaking the info. It is my understanding that the ballots are sealed and counted at the same time to discourage the unequal playing field.

That's not true. All candidates can have observers at each polling.

Onward!

 

[Tim Nelson]

OK.. So…We have determined that it will NOT be mandatory to vote a straight slate. Now… this brings me to a whole new scenario and set of questions. Let’s just say… I want to keep “most” of the AGC’s that we currently have… and then for some weird reason, or by mistake... I vote for Tim as President. What then happens to the give-back pledge that Tim is using to garner support for his ticket?

Example: The AGC’s I want to keep, do not support the occupy agenda… and have not signed a letter of intent to give a portion of their pay back. Now… does anybody here really think that if one or two of Tim’s AGC’s were elected, they would actually follow through with this promise... while the others enjoyed the full salary benefit for their hard work and travel?

The occupy agenda is full of more holes than bin-Laden!

Tim… drop the give-back farce… it won’t work… it’s a false promise at best… and a shady campaign gimmick at worst! Any president that deserves my respect and vote would not even engage in this type of campaigning!

Roabily,

If the occupy team gets in, and I think they will. We will give back $400,000. I understand that you don't believe it but it is not conditioned on your belief.

Onward!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Assuming this is the "givebacks", until you have a legally binding agreement from every person elected this is phantom money. You're counting money that you MIGHT get IF your people get elected. Even then there are at least two members on the Occupy ticket that have stated they refuse to participate in this. You can NOT talk about this money as a sure thing. It's not.

No Occupy team members stated any such thing. What they did do is state by signature a commitment that they will give back.

Onward!

 

[roabilly]

Roabily,

If the occupy team gets in, and I think they will. We will give back $400,000. I understand that you don't believe it but it is not conditioned on your belief.

Onward!

Fair enough Tim... that's your assertion, not mine... what if only a portion of the occupy ticket is elected... what then?

 

[necigrad]

Let’s just say… I want to keep “most” of the AGC’s that we currently have… and then for some weird reason, or by mistake... I vote for Tim as President. What then happens to the give-back pledge that Tim is using to garner support for his ticket?

That's why I referred to this 'savings' as "phantom money". Unless he secured legally binding agreements from everyone elected the money isn't there.

The AA TWU agreement is about to be abrogated... I don't think it would serve as a good bench mark for the IAM to match it once that happens.

You're misunderstanding here. It's a good benchmark to look at. There's no reason not to pull stuff from there. The fact that a Judge may toss the agreement is irrelevant. We're talking about the contract in force now, not what might be there later.

 

[roabilly]

You're misunderstanding here. It's a good benchmark to look at. There's no reason not to pull stuff from there. The fact that a Judge may toss the agreement is irrelevant. We're talking about the contract in force now, not what might be there later.

I hear yahh Grad... Agreed...

Has anyone actually gone through the present (pre-abrogation) AA TWU CBA, and compared it to the IAM Fleet Service Agreement? I am very curious for obvious reasons... wink..wink...

 

[Tim Nelson]

saywhat,
You can mix and match between slates but all three slates have more UA candidates than US candidates. By the numbers US elected candidates will not outnumber UA elected candidates regardless of who gets elected. This is in direct proportion to the members represented by DL 141. UA members outnumber US members by more than a two to one margin. Let's not be fooled we have a chance, that US members, as a result of their vote in June, will "take control" of DL 141. IMO this is another divisive issue, raised by one ticket, that pits on side against another in order to obtain votes. The UA members, and their subsequent representation within the District, should not be an issue. Our UA Sisters and Brothers are not the enemy. Divisiveness, and slates that promote it within the membership for political gain, need to be brought to the light and held accountable for their actions in June. IMO slates are the way to vote. This is based on the presumption that each slate chooses to surround themselves and supports everyone on their slate.
ograc

ograc,

By the numbers, anyone can win, regardless of airline. Your information was inaccurate.

But, if your whole ticket wins then the US AIRWAYS members can be sure of one thing, there will be even less US AIRWAYS members on the eboard than even Delaney has on his ticket. The Occupy ticket has 11 US AIRWAYS members and 17 United members. ND has 7 US AIRWAYS, and you guys have robbed our US AIRWAYS members of slots to pay United with more and have less spots than Delaney. And you are asking our US AIRWAYS members not to pay attention to those sorta things? Yeah, let's keep our US AIRWAYS members only as 'second best' to United. I think not.

I'm wanting equality for the US AIRWAYS members who have continued to be treated 'second best'. The other two tickets have UA presidents who continue to pinch more and more spots off of US AIRWAYS, and it's not right. Bottom line.

You have so few US AIRWAYS spots on your ticket that you don't even have an AGC in the biggest hub, i.e., PHL. Are you going to fly in there from JAX to handle that?

Video: The Platform of Occupy 141

Onward!

 

[ograc]

ograc,

By the numbers, anyone can win, regardless of airline. Your information was inaccurate.

But, if your whole ticket wins then the US AIRWAYS members can be sure of one thing, there will be even less US AIRWAYS members on the eboard than even Delaney has on his ticket. The Occupy ticket has 11 US AIRWAYS members and 17 United members. ND has 7 US AIRWAYS, and you guys have robbed our US AIRWAYS members of slots to pay United with more and have less spots than Delaney. And you are asking our US AIRWAYS members not to pay attention to those sorta things? Yeah, let's keep our US AIRWAYS members only as 'second best' to United. I think not.

I'm wanting equality for the US AIRWAYS members who have continued to be treated 'second best'. The other two tickets have UA presidents who continue to pinch more and more spots off of US AIRWAYS, and it's not right. Bottom line.

You have so few US AIRWAYS spots on your ticket that you don't even have an AGC in the biggest hub, i.e., PHL. Are you going to fly in there from JAX to handle that?

Video: The Platform of Occupy 141
Tim,
Three of the five AGCs on our ticket are a non stop flight from PHL. I can get there in 1hr 45mins flying time. The other two within an hour flying time. Rest assurred PHL, CLT and PHX will be well represented. Our slate was not put together based on what city your from or the potential votes you could pull in based on your location. I believe this was the formula used by the ND Team last election and we see where that has gotten us. Additionally, I won't buy in to this notion that it is US vs. UA within the district. As I stated before our UA Sisters and Brothers are not the enemy. Speaking for my ticket we are all in this together. Campaigning for control of the district UA vs. US is divisive and counter productive.
ograc

Onward!