Fleet Service topic IAM 141

[freedom]

Banks set to stumble again , on CNN.com


http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/10/news/compa...sion=2008041115



mid-year budget deficit hits record reflecting slowdown . Cnn.com

http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/10/news/econo...sion=2008041014



Today the dow dropped over 250 points , … this week OIL reached it’s highest price EVER ! When I say EVER , I mean EVER …



Everyone needs to go to CNN.COM and look at the top of the page , click on the business link , take a look around , read some of the stories .

If you know other economic websites , READ THEM , our nation may be facing one of the worst recessions since world war 2 … I shudder at the thought , those of you in the rust belt states must already be seeing the effects of the housing burst first hand …

I could go on and on with the links to bad economic news , but I will defer .


Do you guys expect the NC to extract water from stones ?

I would also like to take this moment to remember those who were wrong , just because the MAJORITY think their RIGHT , doesn’t make it so , don’t let them peer pressure you into voting down this new TA …

I hate to bring up the pain of the past brothers , but recall the kind of talk we heard before the outcome of the CHANGE OF CONTROL , remember how so many thought that they were right , that the courts would side with them , that their would be back pay checks amounting to thousands of dollars ? Embrace that painful memory and don’t allow yourselves to be blinded in the here and now .

The us economy is falling , I’m not exaggerating , I wish I was . Use a simple indicator and just check and see how many airlines are falling down , this doesn’t happen in good times , demand to travel is drying up faster than spilled water on the PHX ramp in the summer .

 

[orioleman]

727 4 ever,
Great post . You hit on some very very valid points.

as for the CLT posters and readers on here. IF your Face isn't burning from being SLAPPED by CANALE then it should

our great leader . decided that since he kicked CLT neg off the committee and didn't and I REPEAT didn't inform him of todays meeting

also KICKED another member of the GC out of the meeting . and when told that you are NOT allowing CLT to have representation in

this meeting . Randy Canale PRESIDENT OF DL141 reply was and I quote "I DON'T CARE'

so there you have CLT .. RANDY laughs at clt 1 by removing OUR voice from neg 2. Removing our EYES and EARS at the t/a circle

jerk. NOW ITS TIME TO SHOW CANALE WHAT THE WORD SOLIDARITY MEANS.. 1200 plus employess in clt should be pretty P*ssed

of by now.

 

[LuggageJockey]

L J.
"As for Canale I think he's a POS only looking out for his personal gain...Kinda funny how UA has a better contract than us yet the same union."

that would be because the UA boys didn't listen to the band of theives come around with the gloom and doom .. and "live to fight another day speech" . I guess they saw through all the B/S and said LET THE JUDGE DECIDE.. which he did. So actually they can
thank the BK judge for that not the IAM ........

Correct me if Im wrong here O-Man. Isn't or wasn't Canale on the bord for UAL?

Just seems odd to me. Same union, same position as US Airways, quite a bit of a better contract. I'm sure if UAL can afford it so can we.

Thanks if my post was off.

 

[orioleman]

to reply to the above poster,

That is all the more reason to fight for a decent contract. DO you think the recession is only going to hurt the airline industry

NO it hurts all of us. and how about 3 yrs from now when the world is perfect place DO you think the co is going to come back

and say HEY boys/girls . we want to spread the wealth with you. YOU DON'T STRICTLY NEGOTIATE A 4 YEAR EXT BASED ON

WHAT SOMEONE THINKS IS GOING TO HAPPEN . Quit buying into the B/S of the gloom and doom. IF THIS AIRLINE WAS GOING

to completely fall on its arse because of US. then the BOD wouldn't have just lined the pockets of the top execs with MILLIONS OF

DOLLARS ..... come on man .

 

[orioleman]

L J ,
your are absolutely correct. RANDY is on the UA BOD. and the funny on him is the judge neg there contract far superior

than what he could have gotten for them. Also a little tidbit before RANDY took the helm the prior PRES of DL141 didn't want

RANDY NO WHERE NEAR THE NEG TABLE. wouldn't allow it. SO whats the first thing RANDY does as PRES. thats right

appoints HIMSELF as the grand POOO BAH. think about it.

 

[The Shocker]

L J.
"As for Canale I think he's a POS only looking out for his personal gain...Kinda funny how UA has a better contract than us yet the same union."

that would be because the UA boys didn't listen to the band of theives come around with the gloom and doom .. and "live to fight another day speech" . I guess they saw through all the B/S and said LET THE JUDGE DECIDE.. which he did. So actually they can
thank the BK judge for that not the IAM ........

POS Canale and UA has the best contract? How ironic. Canale negotiated that contract at UA.....thru BK none the less.

But think about it, if he could do that at UA with the economic climate it was in for IAM members there don't you believe that if he could with the little to no leverage we have now at US he could have negotiated the best contract for US?

The contract at UA has been in existence for over 50 years. The contract at US has been in place since 1999 and that is because we keep changing unions. The difference between IAM UA and IAM US is that UA IAM supports their negotiating committee during contract talks, even if they don't' UA IAM doesnt let management know what it will settle for. UA members never blogged what they would settle for. Current IAM US is full of politically motivated members with agendas to derail obtaining the industry leading contract. I blame these guys on this site for screwing us system wide.

I actually disliked this TA to be honest with you before being given the info out of PIT today but given the the industry and the shape its in now...this TA is better than no TA.

But the second part of the quote I have no idea what gloryholeman is refering to? I hope he tries to explain.

Vote yes.

 

[freedom]

First of all let me say that I’m not posting to tell anyone how to vote on the T/A.


{SO ON AND SO FORTH }

Everyone is hungry and it’d be nice to at least get some ground beef while Parker and friends eat the Filet and Lobster. Have a good evening.

Hello 727 4 ever , I appreciate your long thought out post , and your analogies about the dinner are a different way of looking at the issue .

Let me try explaining the way some of us here in PHX see things using an analogy similar to yours .

There’s no house , grandma , mom , dad and the rest of the family are dead , we’re marooned in a shara like desert and there’s neither food nor water , soon we will die of dehydration or starve to death , the end .

I meant that to be humors and not insulting , but I think you get our point . I won’t let my family die , I’ll do everything I can to defend them . As such , when I argue I’m not going to try and guess the future TOO much . I don’t know if we will merge , it’s hard to say , It is my belief that the CHANGE of CONTROL clause is no good as it’s already failed , I’m going off of previous experience when I say that . The economy looks BAD , it’s currently not good and the EXPERTS predict worse . I’m trying to put together a very large picture without all of the pieces , the final out come is very important , so when doing this I’m going to err on the side of caution rather than the reverse .

I want to take a second to addresses CEO pay , yes sometimes I feel it IS absurd , but I ALSO feel the money we pay to sports athletes is on the same level , yet why don’t we see the same uproar when it comes to all sorts of people who are making way more than most of us FEEL their worth , movie stars , overpaid , singers , over paid , etc etc the list goes on and on . We live in a capitalistic society ,and while it’s hard to hear “that’s just how it is “ . What would you have us do my friend ? Shall we instruct the government to begin wage controls on what CEO’s can earn ? After that will move on to movie starts , athletes , taxi cab drivers , baggage handlers etc … look I don’t agree with all the tenants of capitalism , but for now the system serves us .

Look if CEO pay bothers you that much then as I see it there are two things you can do , one we need STRONGER unions , lets face facts , the unions today are weak , and their weak because their members are weak , we as Americans are more concerned with what fast food joint we’re going to hit up after work than making a poltical difference in our society .

Two . TAX THE RICH , let them pay for the war ,close all tax loopholes . I have to say thou , I’m of split mind with that statement , if we tax innovators and hard workers too much it will stifle creation and drive .


About the CHANGE OF CONTORL to be honest , while I don’t personally believe it has any bite to it , my honest to goodness gut feeling when I hear it mentioned is one of revulsion because it wasted so much of our time , so much of our lives gone for nothing . I simply do NOT want to give that damn clause another year of MY life …. I ask that those of you in the east not start AGAIN with the back pay checks and retro stories that lured MANY into believing that it was worth while .I will of course back up my gut feeling with fact , I intend to take a few hours in the upcoming day and just tear that #### up , I’ll pick that thing over and explain in laymens terms tit for tat WHY I think it’s worthless , I was right before when I said the east would NOT win arbitration and I still believe that I’m right now . Sorry guys but there’s no magical clause that’s going to give blue collar workers HUNDREDS of millions of dollars in wages , it’s a myth ,a beautiful fantasy .

You mention section 6 , I’ve heard estimates that it would take about 2 years from start to finish , 2 years from now I think it’s likely the us economy will be in the #### hole , aint no one here gonna strike when there’s 20 guys waiting to take your job , I should remind those of you not from the southwest that as this housing boom crashes and burns so is the construction industry , the states of Arizona and Nevada are heavily reliant on construction as an economic driver , LAS and PHX …. We’re in the places that are gonna get hit the hardest .

I once mentioned this before and I’m going to bring it up again , I believe that mergers are going to be our salvation , and I don’t mean that in terms of job security , the more mergers we have the more TA’s we’re going to have another shot at . Look we must ABSOLUTELY get our house in order BEFORE we merge again , or else we will not see ANY befit to the next merger .

Let’s say we DO merge with UA , their IAM , so if we don’t accomplish anything , then we all go back to square one in a much worse much weaker state , but say instead

We merge with UA as a unified work force with pay that’s livable for all our workers ,when it comes time to get a NEW transition agreement with UA we will be better able to hold out against what many of you call “wage bait “ I still don’t think I’m explaining this well so please if someone can understand what I’m trying to say and can explain it better please do .

 

[Black Magic]

I dont know...Doug Parker keeps telling everything is based on industry average yet this new TA is far from that. The company is just trying eeeeekkkkk out more savings over the long term by staying cost nuetral.

If the TA gets voted down the company will be back with a better offer, too much pressure is on Doug Parker/US to merge with another carrier. I mean why are they so hell bent on getting rid of the COC language? Cause things are in the works...

 

[Ramp Rogue]

After reading the t/a, a few questions arose.

1. What seniority date is going to be used for the calling and awarding of overtime?
Is it going to be the way the west does it, where the p/timers and f/timers are placed on the
same overtime list by date of hire?
Or will it be the way the east does it by having two lists', one for f/t and one for p/t? With each
bidding seperately?

2. Read the following paragraph and the question will follow;

Pay Transition for all West employees and East Employees in current Class II stations.

Within thirty (30) days of ratification of this Agreement, these Employees’ pay rate will be increased by fifty-percent (50%) of the difference between their then current pay rate and the pay rate at their appropriate step of the pay scale under the CBA.


Effective on the first Monday of the first pay period six (6) months from the effective date of the first pay increase. Employee pay rates will be increased to one-hundred (100%) of the difference between their then current pay rate and the pay rate at their appropriate step of the pay scale under the CBA.

Why is it that there is no mention of the class 1 stations went raises are mentioned? Class 1 stations make 2 dollars more than class 2 stations. Which leaves them about $2 short of the $19 dollar top out rate. Do they just go straight to $19, or do they have to wait 6 months like we do?

 

[The Bagfather]

. Do they just go straight to $19, or do they have to wait 6 months like we do?[/color][/b]
[/quote]
The goofy changes just apply to the west and east class II stations. The others just
fall into the contract on the day 1. Somebody with a lot more knowledge than me
could tell us the history of this kind of a thing but the bottom line is the company
is saving money and giving the illusion of a bigger pay raise than actually occurs.
For instance a west agent topping out at 15.20 only gets 1/2 of his $3.80 pay raise
for six or seven months. The contract lasts for 4 years. So if the actual money
received by a topped out west agent would come to about $18.50. And that
figure(18.50) is less money in real terms than $15.20 was in the year of
the ratification of the TWU contract (2000). So what the middle year west guy
might say" I'll be getting more than I'm getting now". That's true but it does
nothing to speak to the value of the contract as a whole.

 

[orioleman]

shocker sez,
"The difference between IAM UA and IAM US is that UA IAM supports their negotiating committee during contract talks"

Well if thats the case did UA agree with the band of thieves and VOTE For their contract . OR did they let the BK judge decide for them.

don't let the truth stump you there.


shocker also spews,
"US is full of politically motivated members with agendas to derail obtaining the industry leading contract. I blame these guys on this site for screwing us system wide."

lets break that down a little for the newbies. 1st no one on the is board has been preaching industry leading contracts. FAIR and EQUITABLE
maybe. 2nd Randy and company can't even get close to non-union members pay and benefits but yet thinks that we should except bottom
of the industry contracts . why because we have only been in the union for 13 yrs . Gee no wonder YOU guys have a hard time getting
new members such as Delta and airtran on board. the would be BELOW industry standards since they don't have any IAM seniority

and lastly . Please out of respect for the TRUE USAIRWAYS employees on this thread. stop acting like you are a US FLEET SERVICE AGENT
when your not. FOR once, if you could try and speak with truth and honesty people might actually give you a little respect.

 

[orioleman]

ROGUE,
O.T is called in classification. meaning PT is called for PT hours and FT is called for FT hours. L/A are called for L/A hours

if the list for one class is exhausted then they go out of class to fill the slots. the only time it gets hairy is when A FT gets called

for a 6 hour shift that would appear to be a PT shift but in actually is an added on line so that would go to FT first then PT.

 

[b737200]

Fleet Service had a Judge in CH11 ram a contract down our throats Fleet also had a 60 day rule thrown in the sick is definetly in the ICU the union supponsely was offered a 15 anhr across the board at the time of ch11 part 2 but was never presented to members no other groups have the 60 day rule just fleet

Maybe if UA merges with us 1/2 of these company lovers will get laid off and they can live the
60 day rule.....................

 

[Rock Bottom]

This contract will help the America West employee’s in the short term. With few exception this will be a slap in the face for the US Airways employee’s. Where is the benefits for years of service? This is exactly what Doug Parker wants, no lifetime employee’s. He made that very clear a year ago. This gives him exactly what he wants.
The Union, whose job is to protect its members and listen to their input, must fight for longevity benefits, such as adding a week of vacation for every ten years of service after fifteen years and a quarter an hour raise for ever year pasted top out.

 

[Henderfuzz]

Ive seen a lot of grand arguments here for and aginst this new T/A.
The one thing though that we will all need to ask ourselves is this, can you and your family afford to continue with your current pay for 3 more years durring this current econmic downturn.
For me I say no I cant. My gas bill keeps going up my grocery bill keeps rising as are many other things. So for me just just say no to this is just nuts. If we wait for something better to come along which may or may not happen than we just keep getting ourselves farther behind.
So if you have a vendetta aginst Canale and his group I say put that aside.
I mean, it seems to me just crazy that some people just dont want him to have a victory here.
Look I dont care for the guy either, but Im not crazy enough to give up an increase to my pay becasue of it. Also as far as a merger, well maybe there is going to be one maybe not.
Remeber that even if one is announced, It will have a lot of regulatory crap to get thru before its ever approved, which could mean several more months that we sit and hope for a new oppertunity to even talk.
One way I also say to look at this agreement is that if you dont care to much for the pay just remember we will have our doubletime back and you can always make up what you think you lost.
I also want everyone to understand that if you didnt know this, our CS agents top pay rate is 18.60 per hour. Ours will be 40 cents higher. Dont believe me, than ask one of your CS agents.
Keep that in mind when you decide how you should vote.
So as the guys come around listen to what they say at the info meetings, make sure your informed
encourage everyone to attend, because this is the most important vote we will have for some time.
Educate yourself dont just listen to some angry guy that has some agenda.