Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[WorldTraveler]

How does any future filing affect you?  And in what way?
 
Come on WT, be specific.

and the obvious answer to that question is "no more than it affects 700" but he plays like his life depends on it.....

 
 

you asked a question, got an answer and not its because I am hypersensitive? 
 
good lord if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black.......

you weren't actually part of the 2 I was talking about but apparently you are indeed hypersensitive about being called hypersensitive.

uh, the question was about when the vote would be announced and instead we've had a diversionary "let's talk about "they don't like me" scores on forums.
 
 

I haven't yet voted it down my quota hasn't reset for the day but now that you have asked I will.

Josh

you go there, Josh.

 
 

700 I had given you a plus 1 which brought you fron negative 2 to negative 1 sir

if playing with little green and red arrows on here makes you all think you are winning the representation contest, go for it.

It takes place at the ballot box - and the score there is, wait, wait, ZERO and ZERO.

 

[topDawg]

uh, the question was about when the vote would be announced and instead we've had a diversionary "let's talk about "they don't like me" scores on forums.
 .

The question was asked to start a flame war even though you have been told 100 times that no one here has a true answer to that. As I said the IAM said it expects Q1 for the FAs. Still waiting to see on the ramp. (IMO the union drivers might have better luck with another union. unless the IAM hits a home run at AA) 
 
 
That United turd has really, at least to the people I have talked to, hurt the IAM. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm not flaming and I am not trying to start a war.

if there is no known answer, then why the repeated "it will come in X time?"

if we can't know when it will come, then just wait for the vote to be announced.

and you are absolutely right that DL people will look at what unions have accomplished vs. what they are promising DL people and the IAM has been badly scarred... and given that WN is dragging out the whole process doesn't instill confidence that unions can get increases near as fast as they have promised.

all the QOL stuff is fluff.... if DL people have to take a step back economically or risk lengthy negotiations, they will just stick with what they have. I don't need to do a survey to figure that out... it is basic economic sense.

 

[Kev3188]

The question was asked to start a flame war even though you have been told 100 times that no one here has a true answer to that. As I said the IAM said it expects Q1 for the FAs.

Exactly.

And really, given that the anti-labor crowd currently has what it wants, one has to ask; what's the rush?

At this point, the ramp is meeting it's targeted goals...

All good things in time.

 

[700UW]

and the obvious answer to that question is "no more than it affects 700" but he plays like his life depends on it.....

 
 

you weren't actually part of the 2 I was talking about but apparently you are indeed hypersensitive about being called hypersensitive.

uh, the question was about when the vote would be announced and instead we've had a diversionary "let's talk about "they don't like me" scores on forums.
 
 

you go there, Josh.

 
 

if playing with little green and red arrows on here makes you all think you are winning the representation contest, go for it.

It takes place at the ballot box - and the score there is, wait, wait, ZERO and ZERO.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you missed that I don't care about like or dislike buttons.

that is a tool that was dreamed up by people who can't cope with the realities of the facts on the table.

all that matters on the labor issue is whether DL people sign enough cards to call a vote AND THEN ALSO to vote for a union.

and as much as some people want to try to frame it otherwise, some of ours are really pro-DL people, not anti-labor.

If a union actually delivered what DL people wanted, I would be all over unionization... .but the unions haven't delivered and thus I can't offer any positive recommendation for them at DL.

 

[robbedagain]

bs wt  you are one of the most if not the most anti union clown on here   youre a former revnue mgmt. clown who acts like a know it all clown and when ur shown to be wrong about issues u have either a complete melt down or completely turn things around    So don't sit there and claim you would be behind unionization    secondly  the IAM has delivered a far better agreement last year with a bonus plus enhanced scope  something DL does not really have since not all of their ramp is completely mainline  and any one or all can be outsourced for any reason at any time

 

[WorldTraveler]

I am pro-do what you say you are going to do.

Any organization that can do that gets my vote.

unions in the airline industry have very often not delivered. If they had, DL people would be voting for unions.

but they aren't.

the solution to the problem is not to call me names but for the unions to actually deliver.

 

[topDawg]

I'm not flaming and I am not trying to start a war.

if there is no known answer, then why the repeated "it will come in X time?"

if we can't know when it will come, then just wait for the vote to be announced.

uh.... im a little confused here. Just what in the world are you talking about?
 

and you are absolutely right that DL people will look at what unions have accomplished vs. what they are promising DL people and the IAM has been badly scarred... and given that WN is dragging out the whole process doesn't instill confidence that unions can get increases near as fast as they have promised.

that is not anywhere close to what I said dude. Cards are clearly coming in, the issue I see is that maybe the IAM, only the IAM, could have an issue at Delta. 
 
but the issue for people like you is, while the IAM has the worst scope (at UA) it also have the best scope(at US) so if AA/US end up with the PMUS scope then that will be a big win for the IAM.........and a great way to get votes at Delta. (because again, it would mean Delta would have to add at least 15 or so below wing stations over night) 
 

all the QOL stuff is fluff.... if DL people have to take a step back economically or risk lengthy negotiations, they will just stick with what they have. I don't need to do a survey to figure that out... it is basic economic sense.

 No, QOL isn't fluff. What an amazingly stupid comment to say. 
 
100 bucks an hour pay rate doesn't mean jack piss if your station is outsourced. 
100% profit sharing wouldn't mean jack piss if your station is outsourced
30 bucks an hour doesn't mean jack piss if you have not health care insurance
etc. etc. etc. 
 
You are a complete and total fool, and anyone who also agrees with what you just said is in the same boat, if you think pay is all that matters. The reason it matters to you is because, today, its a "delta wins" talking point. (and the carriers that do have higher pay do not count because you say so) 
but if AA matches Delta's pay rates then its profit sharing. 
If they were to match that it would be something else. 
then something else. 
on and on we go. 
 
 
But back here in this place called the real world, the total QOL, which includes but isn't limited to pay, is what really matters. (but that is because for most of us it isn't some ego trip talking point, its real life.) 
 

Exactly.

And really, given that the anti-labor crowd currently has what it wants, one has to ask; what's the rush?

At this point, the ramp is meeting it's targeted goals...

All good things in time.

Thats good to hear then. 
 

and the obvious answer to that question is "no more than it affects 700" but he plays like his life depends on it.....

If 700 has ties to the industry, even as a retired person then that is completely false. (assuming he was front line, not management like yourself) 
 

you missed that I don't care about like or dislike buttons.

that is a tool that was dreamed up by people who can't cope with the realities of the facts on the table.

all that matters on the labor issue is whether DL people sign enough cards to call a vote AND THEN ALSO to vote for a union.

and as much as some people want to try to frame it otherwise, some of ours are really pro-DL people, not anti-labor.

If a union actually delivered what DL people wanted, I would be all over unionization... .but the unions haven't delivered and thus I can't offer any positive recommendation for them at DL.

It has been pointed out to you time and time and time and time and time and time again that unions have done a lot for Delta. 
Please pick a work group and I will be more than happy to point it out again for you. (or I will be happy to point to unions CBAs that are better than current Delta) 
 
 
.......AGAIN......

 

[southwind]

The question was asked to start a flame war even though you have been told 100 times that no one here has a true answer to that. As I said the IAM said it expects Q1 for the FAs. Still waiting to see on the ramp. (IMO the union drivers might have better luck with another union. unless the IAM hits a home run at AA) 
 
 
That United turd has really, at least to the people I have talked to, hurt the IAM. 

Why is it when you ask when is the vote, since collecting cards has been going on for 2 years now, you get attacked?
 

Exactly.

And really, given that the anti-labor crowd currently has what it wants, one has to ask; what's the rush?

At this point, the ramp is meeting it's targeted goals...

All good things in time.

How would you know they're meeting "Targeted Goals", if your not privy to the official card count? Word of mouth?
 

Sign me up!

 

[WorldTraveler]

first of all, 700 has said he did not retire. He quit. He also didn't ever work for DL.

you don't work in any dept. that even has a prayer of unionizing so what you say about unionization efforts mean no more than what I can read on the bathroom walls at the G.O. or TOC.

No, the unions have NOT done much for airline employees. You can argue about the scope they got US but then US people were the worst paid in the industry. UA employees have the worst scope now but they are holding on to pay.

The TWUs list of 'get rid of them' on this board is so long it is beyond belief - that they are still in place.

DL people look at all of that... and by saying that scope is fluff, I mean that it doesn't matter if scope is attained if it comes at the cost of salary. Not a single airline except WN has a pay/compensation package that is better than DL with better scope.

and WN seems determined to wait out their rampers who are getting more frustrated by the month than give them higher pay or better scope. It shouldn't be hard to realize they aren't the gold standard for labor agreements - and certainly not on the ramp.

save the time. you don't have to point anything out. DL employees have and will continue to do so at the ballot box.

The track record for union wins at DL among the biggest work groups is ZERO.

and southwind,
there is no more evidence that any labor group is doing anything more than replacing the cards that expire with each year. Given that the IAM needs about 5000 rampers and 10K FAs just to call a vote, there just isn't half of the people in a workgroup that think a union can make a difference.

even in the BEST union elections of late, 20% of the employees don't even bother to vote.

 

[robbedagain]

lets try this this way    the Scope currently at PMUS is now one of the best    It is ALMOST impossible to outsource the ramp in a number of cities   bec the language in it declares that in order to outsource the ramp the company would have to go down to virtually 1 mainline jet a day for 1 yr  
 
also catering in all of our hubs plus some other cities are protected thru the duration of our contract   (and probably beyond)      not to mention our pay is up     
 
on the contrary  what kind of scope does DL have...    ohhh that's right...  none       
 
you have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE  how the current DL folks feel now regarding union representation     You've only been gone for a decade more or less  so no you have no idea  so save your BS 

 

[Kev3188]

All good things in time...

 

[topDawg]

Why is it when you ask when is the vote, since collecting cards has been going on for 2 years now, you get attacked?

because you ask the same stupid question getting the same answer many times. I believe that is the definition of something.....
 

first of all, 700 has said he did not retire. He quit. He also didn't ever work for DL.

Again this is not just something dealing with Delta. You can't get that for some reason, but EVERYTHING that happens at United, American, FedEx, UPS, Southwest etc. etc means something to Delta employees.
 

you don't work in any dept. that even has a prayer of unionizing so what you say about unionization efforts mean no more than what I can read on the bathroom walls at the G.O. or TOC.

and you don't work for the gosh damn company at all. Stop telling people what they can or can not comment on when you yourself have ZERO meaning to Delta Air Lines. You are a has been......nothing more.
 

No, the unions have NOT done much for airline employees. You can argue about the scope they got US but then US people were the worst paid in the industry. UA employees have the worst scope now but they are holding on to pay.

Oh they haven't? You are on a roll with the stupid comments in the thread now. Anyone else want tackle this one? My head hurts to much from beating it against the wall
 

The TWUs list of 'get rid of them' on this board is so long it is beyond belief - that they are still in place.

Dude, this board had like 20-30 normal posters. Half of those dump the TWU people think they should be making 75 an hour and Parker should be their personal ass wiper. 
Clearly the majority of the members have been buying into the TWU. (and honestly I would do if some of those AA line guys got in at the AMFA. Lot of I got mine in that crowd 

DL people look at all of that... and by saying that scope is fluff, I mean that it doesn't matter if scope is attained if it comes at the cost of salary. Not a single airline except WN has a pay/compensation package that is better than DL with better scope.

and again, you are truly a fool if you believe that is the case. Plenty of airlines and work groups have taken pay cuts to save SCOPE. American is a great example of that.
 

and WN seems determined to wait out their rampers who are getting more frustrated by the month than give them higher pay or better scope. It shouldn't be hard to realize they aren't the gold standard for labor agreements - and certainly not on the ramp.

no crap. Now that the government has taken the ability for self-help away from the union, it makes it much harder to bring the company to the table. 
 

save the time. you don't have to point anything out. DL employees have and will continue to do so at the ballot box.

I don't need to point it out because you don't want me to make you look like crap again. If i start pointing things like the vast majority of Delta's in-house ramp is simply because of the Northwest Airlines IAM union. 
But again only if it makes you biased point......... 
 

The track record for union wins at DL among the biggest work groups is ZERO.

 
Someone can't do math. Pilots are the 2nd or 3rd largest work group and they are Union. (I know I know, they don't count cause......it doesn't make your point) 

 

[700UW]

uh, the question was about when the vote would be announced and instead we've had a diversionary "let's talk about "they don't like me" scores on forums.

if playing with little green and red arrows on here makes you all think you are winning the representation contest, go for it.

It takes place at the ballot box - and the score there is, wait, wait, ZERO and ZERO.

And how does "Spectator" feel about this issue?
 
You did create him to give yourself green arrows.