What's new

Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

Status
Not open for further replies.
700UW said:
 
Wow! Delta "received" concerns from 100 flight attendants that said they never signed a card but got a message from IAM thanking them for signing. So.... what does that make the card count.... 11,900. Still a majority. And honestly, everyone whose card was received signed it. Everyone who didn't, no cards were received or delivered to NMB. Very simple.
 
 
Guaranteed that a "small" number of cards were signed and received fraudulently. I can picture some FA's who may have argued with their counterparts on a flight who were against the Union, signing their names and putting them in the mailbox. People are apt to do that sort of thing.

But the reality is that that would only be a very small handful among the 12000 cards submitted. That's why it was very smart for the International Association Of Machinists and Aerospace Workers to wait until they had over 60% of the total workforce before filing with the NMB. The number of invalidated cards absolutely will not reach anywhere near 10% of the total number submitted.

"Although an annoying individual could hope it would"
 
a buffer of a thousand or more might be in place - but there is absolutely no way at this point to know how much fraud was committed and by whom.

It is simply the legal thing to determine that the cards are valid. Until the NMB rules otherwise, the ball is in their hands - and I fully expect that both DL and the Machinists union will do all possible to sway the process the way they want.

and it still doesn't change that based on history at DL, DL employees are very good at threatening unionization only to decide at the ballot box they aren't interested.

This site is full of posts from people who provide all of the evidence as to why unions have not and do not deliver the value they promise considering the millions in dollars they collect from airline employees.

this is a good example

Bob Owens said:
Outsourcing is a factor that no doubts presents a challenge, but the bigger factor is Unions have failed their memberships.

Around 80% of the airline industry is still Unionized and with that power they could pressure for favorable regulation and have adequate leverage to bring back compensation to fair levels but the problem is many Union leaders treat their memberships as commodities and design their strategies on maintaining their dues flow instead of maintaining the level of compensation that one expects as a Union member. While many carriers have disappeared and the industry has consolidated the number of Unions, remains the same, or has increased as disillusioned memberships unable to reform the unions they have form new ones. The trend towards consolidation was inevitable once the industry was deregulated and the Unions adopted the strategy that they wanted to be the bargaining representative of the carrier that survived which put their members in a race to the bottom. Its not just coincidence that those workers, such as pilots and flight attendants, who had fewer dominant Unions competing for members, fared better than the others.

Look at the debacle planned for ground workers at AA, while USAIR and AA have become one airline, the leaders of the TWU and IAM decided to split the membership between two unions based solely on making sure that each union keeps the same number of members that they had prior to the merger. In the case of the mechanics they both produced agreements where compensation is lower than non-union. They have designed a structure based solely on the cash flow to the parent unions and does nothing to create a common culture between the two groups of workers. Its so blatant that this design is about retaining dues that members at different locations get horse traded between Unions based on Location, move from NY to BOS and you move into a different Union. They even agreed to reshuffle the deck is stations close. So lets say Pittsburg shuts down, members in Denver who were never IAM members could see themselves forced into the IAM and have to pay more dues for the same exact work rules and pay. The focus of this structure clearly isn't to correct the fact that both came together with their dues paying members at the very bottom of the industry but rather to insure that both organizations continue to collect the same amount of dues from those poorly represented members.

Blaming it on outsourcing provides the Unions with an excuse for poor performance, yes those two factors present challenges, always have and always will, but thats not an excuse for the failure of Unions to face up to those challenges, if the Unions were doing a good job they would be able to quickly organize those vendors who do the outsourcing and wages would be maintained.
 
WorldTraveler said:
a buffer of a thousand or more might be in place - but there is absolutely no way at this point to know how much fraud was committed and by whom.

It is simply the legal thing to determine that the cards are valid. Until the NMB rules otherwise, the ball is in their hands - and I fully expect that both DL and the Machinists "IAM" or "International Association Of Machinists AND Aerospace Workers" will do all possible to sway the process the way they want.

and it still doesn't change that based on history at DL, DL employees are very good at threatening unionization only to decide at the ballot box they aren't interested.

This site is full of posts from people who provide all of the evidence as to why unions have not and do not deliver the value they promise considering the millions in dollars they collect from airline employees.

this is a good example
 

I can give you 199 measures of value that I receive from my Union. It's how many pages are in my CONTRACT sitting right here beside me.
 
I'm glad you feel satisfied with what you have, WeAAsles.

The majority of DL employees have believed for 85 years that they get more value in a direction relationship with mgmt.

as much as you want to believe otherwise, there is no indication that is going to change.

the quote comes from the AA forum, 700.
 
how would you know if it is inaccurate?

did you only do 90 and wonder whether the other 10 came from?
 
WorldTraveler said:
how would you know if it is inaccurate?

did you only do 90 and wonder whether the other 10 came from?
Thanks for the screen shot and the slander. 
 
And I hope you have some deep pockets
 
WorldTraveler said:
I'm glad you feel satisfied with what you have, WeAAsles.

The majority of DL employees have believed for 85 years that they get more value in a direction relationship with mgmt.

as much as you want to believe otherwise, there is no indication that is going to change.

the quote comes from the AA forum, 700.
They did obviously at one point and for a very long time believe that was true. But times have changed and they obviously no longer feel the same way as in the past. Perhaps and most likely it's due to the current management team and that they lost the core tenant of the former philosophies that kept Unions away and at bay for so long?

Either you do not have a pulse on the current realities or you are choosing to turn a blind eye to them in remembrance of how YOU felt in your tenure at Delta?

It is going to happen and there is nothing you or anyone is going to be able to do to stop it.

Care to make a wager?
 
WorldTraveler said:
The majority of DL employees have believed for 85 years that they get more value in a direction relationship with mgmt.
Are you actually trying to be derivative?

Seriously, if you want to have "strategic business discussions," a good start would be to stop parroting DLNet...

Meanwhile, the majority of DL flight attendants have decided that the status quo isn't working, and are exercising their right to determine their future.
 
Thanks for the screen shot and the slander. 
 
And I hope you have some deep pockets
 
it was a question, not an accusation

answer the question as to how you know that 100 is not a correct number
 
Are you actually trying to be derivative?

Seriously, if you want to have "strategic business discussions," a good start would be to stop parroting DLNet...

Meanwhile, the majority of DL flight attendants have decided that the status quo isn't working, and are exercising their right to determine their future.
no, the NMB has 12K cards which no one knows if they are valid or not.

I don't parrot DLnet.

I worked at DL longer than you likely ever will.
 
WeAA  he has no guts   to wager any bet and if he did he would never live up to paying you if he loses        Times have change  and he cannot accept that fact
 
robbedagain said:
WeAA  he has no guts   to wager any bet and if he did he would never live up to paying you if he loses        Times have change  and he cannot accept that fact
The wager was very simple. When he loses he has to leave Airline Forums. No one respects anything he has to say here anyway and losing the bet would probably be the greatest thing that ever happened to him from a personal standpoint. He could move on to do far more important things with his life and maybe even things that are beneficial to others?

He certainly doesn't accomplish any of that on here.
 
He couldnt do it.
 
One he gets paid to post here, since he has been gone from DL for over eight years, took the money and ran, and never was a FA.
 
Two he has a sick obsession with DL.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top