Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[700UW]

 

[Kev3188]

 

I'm sure that you have fatigue rules as far as how many hours you can work.

I do, but nowhere near as hard/fast as something like 117. Neither do the F/A's.

And even if they did, as it stands there's no way for them to negotiate legally binding financial relief the same way DALPA did for you.

 

[700UW]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.467
 
https://home.comcast.net/~skydrifter/farest.htm
 
Kevin,

Check out this link, and there are campaigns from all the unions pushing for FA rest.
 
http://legislative.afacwa.org/?zone=/unionactive/view_article.cfm&HomeID=251329

 

[metopower]

I do, but nowhere near as hard/fast as something like 117. Neither do the F/A's.And even if they did, as it stands there's no way for them to negotiate legally binding financial relief the same way DALPA did for you.

What I'm trying to say is...We pilots did not Want 117. It is to the FA's benefit not to have them!

 

[WorldTraveler]

and let's be clear that 117 LIMITS earning power.

so do union restrictions that tie pilot and FA work rules.

 

[700UW]

No they provide safety for themselves and the Flying Public.
 
Do you know they are duty time limits for Aircraft Mechanics?
 
FAs deserve the same rest and protections as others in the industry.
 
Its not about money, its about SAFETY.
 
You will never get it World Fraudster.

 

[Kev3188]

 

What I'm trying to say is...We pilots did not Want 117. It is to the FA's benefit not to have them!

Why?

Again, why should any safety sensitive group *not* have rest rules on a par with 117?

 

[700UW]

Hey SW, this is for you:
 

 

[metopower]

Why?Again, why should any safety sensitive group *not* have rest rules on a par with 117?

Because they addressed a problem that only exist at commuter or small airlines. Neither pilots on that flight (colgan) had any rest issues. They had discussed rest issues during the flight. Neither pilot had low time issues. Both were addressed by rule making after that accident.The issue that was not addressed was their incompetence. If you want some kind of 117 work rules I have to ask ..What would they be? How do you want to limit your work day? 4hr shifts? Ten people per crew? 25 pd bag limit? Age 60 retirement?

 

[WorldTraveler]

No they provide safety for themselves and the Flying Public.
 
Do you know they are duty time limits for Aircraft Mechanics?
 
FAs deserve the same rest and protections as others in the industry.
 
Its not about money, its about SAFETY.
 
You will never get it World Fraudster.

I could say that it isn't safe for you to drive from ATL to CLT because you will become fatigued.... and you could rightly argue that I am wrong.

There is no scientific evidence that FAs have fatigue issues which the industry has not dealt with or that there really is a safety issue.

Meto is right when he acknowledges that longhaul flying wasn't impacted by the BUF crash which was the genesis for 117.

There simply is no scientific evidence that safety at US airlines has been compromised because of US airline schedule practices.

If you believe otherwise, post it.

there has been a WEALTH of studies that have been done on pilot fatigue issues... and because pilots and FAs do not perform the same functions, just because they work the same schedule does not mean they will be equally fatigued to do their same task.

Kevin would do well to realize that principle.

Why don't mechanics and pilots have the same work rule requirements by your argument?

again, you are parroting a union solution to a problem that doesn't exist in any kind of scientific manner solely because it is one more way to insert a union into employee lives and in the process create more positions and more union dues.

that is the fact.

 

[Kev3188]

 

Because they addressed a problem that only exist at commuter or small airlines.

Fatigue isn't a danger at any other carrier?

Age 60 retirement?

I should be so lucky...

 

[metopower]

Fatigue isn't a danger at any other carrier?I should be so lucky...

I'm not saying that.what I'm saying is 117 was not put forward by nor were any major airline rank and file pilot consulted. If it had the rules would look completely different.if safety is the issue or fatigue is the issue then address them .What 117 did was give the flying public a feel good answer.

 

[robbedagain]

Kev  for us FSA  we are allowed only 1 back to back doubles a week   But here is the kicker   we can have virtually unlimited OT    There are couple of folks in my station who used to put in over 100 hrs a week til  a couple months ago and after a few incidents  hardly anyone is picking up OT   mostly day shift folks will pick up day lines but no one on nights are picking up anything despite it being avail.  
 
Meto  I could have sworn that the Colgan Air crew did have rest issues   I knew they (particularly the capt) had incompetency issues.   which all played a role in the crash

 

[WorldTraveler]

dang I think we should be petitioning Congress for rules that limit ramper OT to eliminate those enormous safety issues you just described could exist.

if a union really cared about safety, they would stop that.

 

[FWAAA]

Meto  I could have sworn that the Colgan Air crew did have rest issues   I knew they (particularly the capt) had incompetency issues.   which all played a role in the crash

My recollection is that neither pilot had rest issues. The First Officer had commuted overnight to Newark on a series of FedEx flights, and a lot of the public alleged that she had rest issues because she had not slept in a bed like they had. She also had some symptoms consistent with the common cold, IIRC. But neither she nor the Captain had FAR rest issues that 117 would have changed had 117 been in effect at the time of the Colgan crash. Pilots are still permitted to non-rev across the country on red-eye flights of their choice like she did and begin their duty day.