Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[topDawg]

I'll assume this is an attempt to get me to continue talking.

Nevertheless, I've said the exact opposite. Signing of cards is a tangible sign that more and more people realize they do have the power to take control of their career(s).



Wow.

 
 

excellent post there Dawg!

Thanks Robbed. 
 

 

FWIW, I don't understand the disconnect either. I am glad to see that that particular mindset at this carrier is getting smaller by the day.

After all, aren't we supposed to all be looking out for each other?

The good thing is Delta is changing back to that. Ron Allen and Leo Mullen really killed that attitude and pushed on us via lower management like WT. 
WT's attitude is what Delta was during the 90s and early 2000s. 
Thankfully Gerry started to get the ball rolling on change. 
 

wonderful.

I have repeatedly said that if a DL employee thinks there is a case against DL, they should go to court.

I doubt if he will win. In fact I can guarantee you that there will be declaration of guilt by a judge regarding DL's actions.

if it comes anywhere close to that, Kip will settle out of court and nary a word will be said about his employment with DL again.

or DL will have no problem finding whatever it takes to prove him wrong. the fact that he violated DL's order to cease talking for DL in public is a factor that the State of MN didn't have to consider and they didn't have the authority to require DL to present its case to them.

DL is paying the unemployment claim. MN has no authority to challenge DL unless they refuse to pay the unemployment claim.

if that sounds mean and cold, welcome to life in corporate America.

If you don't like it, may I suggest self-employment.

Yeah this post pushes a clear message of caring about employees. (thats sarcasm) 
 

I am aware that you can speak about your work conditions. but where way too many people have crossed the line is in thinking they can talk about more than just their individual situation.

again, it's a slippery slope and unless you have been well coached by a lawyer who really knows what they are talking about, not someone who is trying to push the line, employees are better off to keep their mouth shut. DL knows exactly where that line is and has a 100% success rate in keeping the message under its control.

and let's be clear that other airline employees have been terminated for making videos.... this is hardly a DL thing.

and for the 3rd time or so, can we see the video.

Again sounds like you care about employees 
more threats and more fear pushing. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'll assume this is an attempt to get me to continue talking.

Nevertheless, I've said the exact opposite. Signing of cards is a tangible sign that more and more people realize they do have the power to take control of their career(s).


Wow.

part 2 first.. you should recognize that as a nod to what jimntx says.

part 1... again you make the assumption that cards means anything more than getting the company's attention and getting them to throw bennies at DL employees.

---

dawg,
your mischaracterization of what I have said is breathtakingly sad.

I have never said that I thought 7.5 was good or bad because of what impact it had on me.

to even suggest that I am representative of 7.5 and Ron Allen or Leo Mullin mindset is the greatest insult you could throw - and also highlight your complete ignorance on the subject.

but you proved a long time ago that you aren't capable or interested in being objective - just a noisy loud mouth that is out of touch with your peers.

I said that 7.5 was one of the worst periods in the life of Delta Air Lines because Ron Allen messed with the historic culture of DL and wasn't creative enough to work within that structure. It lead to the 1996 ALPA contract which was widely viewed as rammed down their throat which lead to the worst relationship DL has had with its pilots.

I don't know whether DL then said 7.5 worked to reach its financial goals but it destroyed DL's culture.

it is amazing that it took Gerry Grinstein who came from Western and Richard Anderson who came from NW to rebuild DL's HISTORIC culture. Other people recognized the intrinsic value that existed at DL and were able to rebuild it. DL's employee loyalty is higher now than it has been in decades - before Ron Allen came along.

and Lee Moak led DALPA's turnaround and it was before BK - and focused on figuring out how to work together to both party's benefits. Did DL pilots take cuts? you better believe they did. massive ones. but they have recovered very nicely, they are playing extraordinarily well with mgmt., and mgmt. is doing everything they can to build on the positive relationship. I'm sure you'll be along to tell me I am all wrong on that regard but I talk to enough DL pilots to know the optimism is very high right now thanks to DL knowing it can count on the pilots so DL is giving them more than they have seen in a real long time.

so, everytime you and others want to talk about what ALPA has done, you fail to remember they chose to create a very collaborative relationship LONG BEFORE they got compensated for it.

you don't seem to want to believe that injecting a union into the middle of relationships with a workgroup which is enjoying the best period it has known in years will put a massive brake on the good times but that is exactly what will happen.

to think that any DL employee group is going to change the dynamic with a union and then expect to just keep getting bigger and bigger payouts from what they have already rec'd is simply beyond delusional.

for you and others to argue that when the salaries of tens of thousands of employees is on the line is the height of dereliction of duty.

 

[topDawg]

I have never said that I thought 7.5 was good or bad because of what impact it had on me.

That is EXACTLY what you said.
"given that I was greatly impacted by 7.5 and yet managed to overcome it, I am hardly going to stand up for the tactic that Ron Allen used."
 

to even suggest that I am representative of 7.5 and Ron Allen or Leo Mullin mindset is the greatest insult you could throw - and also highlight your complete ignorance on the subject.

I see the way you talk and post and am calling it like i see it. If it hurts your feelings then change.
 

but you proved a long time ago that you aren't capable or interested in being objective - just a noisy loud mouth that is out of touch with your peers.

Please explain what my peers want then? (with data to back it up of course)
 

I said that 7.5 was one of the worst periods in the life of Delta Air Lines because Ron Allen messed with the historic culture of DL and wasn't creative enough to work within that structure. It lead to the 1996 ALPA contract which was widely viewed as rammed down their throat which lead to the worst relationship DL has had with its pilots.

That isn't remotely close to what you said.
 

and Lee Moak led DALPA's turnaround and it was before BK - and focused on figuring out how to work together to both party's benefits. Did DL pilots take cuts? you better believe they did. massive ones. but they have recovered very nicely, they are playing extraordinarily well with mgmt., and mgmt. is doing everything they can to build on the positive relationship. I'm sure you'll be along to tell me I am all wrong on that regard but I talk to enough DL pilots to know the optimism is very high right now thanks to DL knowing it can count on the pilots so DL is giving them more than they have seen in a real long time.

DALPA and Delta's relationship goes back well before Lee Moak.
 

so, everytime you and others want to talk about what ALPA has done, you fail to remember they chose to create a very collaborative relationship LONG BEFORE they got compensated for it.

Brush up on your history. Mr Woolman pushed the pilots toward joining ALPA.
Why? because he already knew they would be able to have the relationship they have today.
Delta's labor relations started with him. Joining a union shouldn't change that.
And to say that any group needs to "prove" anything just once again shows who you think like.
 

you don't seem to want to believe that injecting a union into the middle of relationships with a workgroup which is enjoying the best period it has known in years will put a massive brake on the good times but that is exactly what will happen.

That only happens when people like Leo force them to happen.
 

to think that any DL employee group is going to change the dynamic with a union and then expect to just keep getting bigger and bigger payouts from what they have already rec'd is simply beyond delusional.

Once again you act like its one sided.
So fine. Delta puts those sorry bastards in their place like you want to see.
But i expect that you believe Delta would also be able to keep productivity gains like A-Days and RR at the same time.
Again this is all butt hurt bull crap from you. Its clear you have no idea how Delta works with its labor world force union or not.
Its also clear that you have no idea what it takes to have the relationship Delta does with its employees. I guess that is what happens when you move up within the company when you did.
I don't blame you for that, I do blame you for wishing and hoping that Delta brings back that ass backwards Leo Mullen style of labor relations
.

for you and others to argue that when the salaries of tens of thousands of employees is on the line is the height of dereliction of duty.

Get
Help.

 

[WorldTraveler]

ALPA in the 40s was about safety first and foremost.

the government and industry take that role today.

and what you cannot accept is that basic economic and negotiating principles say that the WORST time to change your strategy and start demanding more is when you are at the top!

DL employees are at or near the top of the industry.

changing from a strategy where DL has put them there to one where any additional DL workgroups will truly be compensated on industry average guidelines and not the well above industry average which DL employees actually enjoy today.

If you aren't pro-union then you are clearly anti-rationality because there is absolutely NO economic or negotiating basis for any DL employee right now thinking they can go storming into the C suite and force Richard Anderson to sign larger checks.

Absolutely none.

and for someone who claims to have the business degrees who do and who can't understand those principles is simply beyond frightening.

it is not about Mullin or Allen or anyone else.

it is about basic principles of negotiating and economics.

You clearly are too blind by your own hubris to be able to see them.

 

[diamondcutter]

still not sure who Tammy is since there are a number of uncaptioned people speaking but my favorite is the male FA supposedly from LAX who says that he can 'Never understand how a FA and pilot can make different amounts for the same trip other than that they (pilots) have a contract."those people who think I need professional help might send the recommendation to this goon who honestly thinks that anyone is going to close the gap between pilot and FA pay with a union.and if the female is Tammy who keeps talking about "they tell us the world's best employees so we should have the world's best pay and benefits - the whole package" sounds to me like she didn't get born in the south. which might well be 99% of the reason she is "in the crosshairs" as you like to say. something like Rome and acting like a Roman.some people didn't seem to get when the merger was announced that DL was given full reign by the NW board to eliminate any culture that wasn't compatible with its own - and clearly some still don't get it.those who have succeeded at DL - regardless of where they came from - have succeeded because they learned to succeed at DL's game playing DL's rules.anything else gets swatted down pretty quickly.hate to break it to you but that is what it is.

You do need help !! The fa is talking about how many hours the trip is worth , not the pay rate per hour!!! DL pilots who fly the same exact 3 day worth 15hrs , same trip for fa's pays 13hrs.

 

[robbedagain]

a 2 hr gap btwn the FAs and the Pilots   

 

[metopower]

You do need help !! The fa is talking about how many hours the trip is worth , not the pay rate per hour!!! DL pilots who fly the same exact 3 day worth 15hrs , same trip for fa's pays 13hrs.

The flight time is 13:00hrs. The only reason that the pilot get 15:00hrs is because of 117 rules. Had to be negotiated because of the rest day requirement would not allow a pilot to get a full months pay. FA's do not have 117 rules and can fly more days thus more hours per 28 days. Nice try with bending the truth.

 

[Kev3188]

"Had to be negotiated" to get a full month's pay.

Interesting.

Speaking of 117, why *shouldn't* F/A's have ones similar to pilots?

 

[robbedagain]

meto   is 15 hr the total max that you pilots are allowed to fly in 1 single day?  also do the FAs have a time limit similar to you pilots?
 
kev  I agree its interesting that it had to be "negotiated"  esp since it appears to be FAA mandate

 

[diamondcutter]

The flight time is 13:00hrs. The only reason that the pilot get 15:00hrs is because of 117 rules. Had to be negotiated because of the rest day requirement would not allow a pilot to get a full months pay. FA's do not have 117 rules and can fly more days thus more hours per 28 days. Nice try with bending the truth.

Nice try ....that's why you negotiate a me too clause , or same rule!!

 

[WorldTraveler]

Speaking of 117, why *shouldn't* F/A's have ones similar to pilots?

because no FAs crashed a plane into BUF in a snowstorm

--

and no there is no ME TOO clauses for FAs to 117 rules.

again, when unionistas make claims that they can do something about issues like this, they are setting up their membership for massive delusion based on lying that a union can change that.

pilots and FAs serve different functions in the airline industry. FAs absolutely have safety related powers. They do not have the same federally mandated work rules.

all the Machinists union is trying to do with an argument like this is another attempt at class warfare - whether it be the pilots or mgmt., there is no admission that FAs are compensated and given work rules comparable to other FAs.

suggesting or promising anything is simply a lie.

 

[metopower]

"Had to be negotiated" to get a full month's pay.
Interesting.
Speaking of 117, why *shouldn't* F/A's have ones similar to pilots?

DL FA's can fly over 200 hrs a month if they wish. Because they don't have Union restrictions. Pilots are mandated by the FAA. Talk to them about it.This example is rare. It is because it is an international trip. Hawaii. The flight time from the west coast is only hard time of 13:00hrs.

 

[700UW]

 

[xUT]

Now your stretching it a bit.
UA F/A's are AFA, IAM represents ramp & stores.
Tell them about the latest contract for them.
Don't misrepresent anything.
That's why the iam sucks.
 
B) xUT
 
-----Edited by ME-----------------
$4000 a month GMAFB...

 

[topDawg]

And this is where the IAM drive dies..... 
4,000 a month? 
 
Yeah okay. Right after Delta gives me 4,000 a month retirement