Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[Kev3188]

Profit Sharing has nothing to do with a raise.

True.
 

 

Well some of the FAs are getting 3% raise while others get a 4% raise.

Same with ACS. How people think this is "fair" is beyond me.
 
 

And if you elected your profit sharing to into your 401k this past February, you cant change the early PS payout, it will go into your 401k and you cant get the cash.

True, though to be fair, most people boost their 401k contribution to avoid the tax bite.
 
 

Did you not read that Kev said the expectation is that even with getting part of the profit sharing in October of this year, DL's profit sharing payout in Feb 2015 will still be larger than in this Feb 2014 which already amounted to the equivalent of a month's extra pay?

Did you not read where I noted that was anecdotal? It may wind up being the case, but as of now you're basing an argument on a foundation of quicksand.

 
 

Kev   if  and that's a big IF  the elections to be union or not is to be called very shortly  that cld very well be the reason why DL is choosing to pay out PS and raise    which in my own eyes can see they are either trying to buy their way to the employees not to be union and that they will be "cared for" by DL mgmt.  or  somethin' else.    Ive seen that before    at EN   they did the same if not similar tatics too

BINGO!
 
 

 
 

Guess some people think they should get the raise the day of the announcement.
 
Also, since there is no contract signed, the peeps concerned with that issue, would be more than happy to forfeit said raise.

With no contract signed, there's nothing stopping the company from changing any part of any of this "at any time, for any reason."
 
 

Oh and Kev, the raise I mentioned a few days ago, is official now.

So it would seem. Bully for us. Still doesn't change that you were talking out of your a$$ a couple of days ago.

 

[Kev3188]

Kev.. Off topic but just saw the first of the new adds... All about baggage and shows mostly ramp workers .Shows you guys in a good light under some bad conditions....you guys do do a great job in my opinion...Must be propaganda or something sinister ...or could just show one of DL s strong points.

Happy to hear it. Where are these?

My guess is that they know they really pi$$ed off a lot of people leaving the ramp of the Sky magazine cover. This may be an attempt to atone for it.

Thanks for the kinds words, BTW.
 
 

Of course not. But 6 months prior!!!! Give me a break there dude.

Hey Jenny Aniston told me she was going to fly in and have sex with me in May 2024 also.

Much better to have people looking forward than looking around.
 
 

What is clear with the HUGE onslaught of other airline employees and union activists on the DL forum today is that they are ABSOLUTEY LIVID that DL has yet once again given its people what they want and did it without a union.

OTOH, you must be ecstatic. Look at how many people are paying attention to you!


 

This is a bad day for airline union activists. Very bad day.

No, it's a great day; if anything, it should be seen as validation of their efforts. DL is smart enough to see things like the F/A EO program at UA, the CBA's at AA & AS, and efforts on their own home turf to know they had to act.

 

[WorldTraveler]

thank you, Kev,
I'll remind you in the future of how much you say is hearsay and quicksand.

+717

And we discussed a long time ago that DL has ALWAYS been able to win against unions because it runs a stronger business than other airlines and with that financial advantage is able to match any raise its network peers have come up with. Unions at DL's legacy peers look at DL's compensation as the goal - IAM's chart which 700 showed prove it.

Whether you or anyone else wants to argue that profit sharing is not a part of long term compensation, DL employees see it otherwise. DL's profit sharing far exceeds the pay raises that other airlines have given - and WN is absolute proof of continuous profit sharing creates far richer airline employees than those who simply wait around for union-negotiated pay raises.

to say that employees put money in 401Ks solely to avoid taxes is laughable, esp. from you.

The tax code was written to encourage employee investment in their own retirements. Profit sharing that is used to help increased 401k balances is a win for employees esp. for those who choose to walk away and enjoy their work other than otherwise could.

 

[topDawg]

except take home pay hasn't gone down and the IAM is flat out wrong - or as you love to say - THEY ARE LYING.

well I don't know that as a fact, (not an FA) but I would be a little shocked if that were completely true...... 
ANY DL employee knows their pay today is higher than it was at the time of the merger - so when unions make such bold faced lies, it isn't hard for any DL employee to see it.
it must be for some, its not like IAM just making things up.......they have support from a large part of the FA group. They have it for a reason.... 
What is clear with the HUGE onslaught of other airline employees and union activists on the DL forum today is that they are ABSOLUTEY LIVID that DL has yet once again given its people what they want and did it without a union.
who is livid? Delta is giving raises to its employees while making billions..........they basically have to give us more money. (or they will have unions in here quickly) 
AA FAs had wet themselves with glee that they were getting industry best pay raises and with a stroke of a pen and without negotiations, DL employees have completely bested their peers not just at AA but also UA.
You keep forgetting AA just got out of BK. Okay Delta pays better than they do right now......thats kind of the point of BK....
Unless the APFA managed to get profit sharing included in their TA, DL employees far will blow them out of the water in compensation increases over the next year.
have you seen the TA? I haven't so I would love how you know all of this without seeing a TA.....
DL employees are EASILY looking at a combined profit sharing and pay raise that totals 15% - and likely more than that

AA/US unions thought they were going home with the bank with raises that will happen ONE TIME in the life of the contract.
not generally how contracts work WT. Generally they have yearly bumps built in. I imagine the AA work groups will get its large raise with-in the first two years of the contract, but I bet they at least get COL increases yearly till the end of the CBA term. 
 
but again I ask for the APFA TA. Your talking alot about it as if it were fact, so if the FAs are only getting one raise over the life of the contract I would love to see it.  
And arguing that DL is being desperate by announcing a pay raise 6 months in advance is so incredibly hypocritical coming from union activists who argue for the "security" of pay raises that are promised YEARS in advance - and can be wiped out with the stroke of a pen in bankruptcy. ANY airline employee knows how easily that took place so there is no doubt that the "security" of a contract is no security at all.
but it is. AA isn't going to be able to just go into BK every time they sign a new contract. So what your saying has happened at AA once in the life of the airline. Pretty good odds.......
This is a bad day for airline union activists. Very bad day.
how you get this at all i have know idea. Very few people at Delta want a union for pay reasons. 

yes, Dawg, there isn't a single DL employee who is on here complaining about the pay raise. The clamor is coming from union activists OUTSIDE of DL.
not like this is some huge Delta employee gathering place. 
and I didn't say that DL employees are making more than WN employees but surely even you have noticed that they are getting absolutely nowhere in their attempts to get contracts with even the smallest pay raises while their peers at DL are seeing their compensation increase on an annual basis by double digit amounts.
your making 10 an hour, I make 3....now I'm make 3.5 your still making 10. Who is better off? 
The desperate attempts they make to discredit the joy DL employees are experiencing today shows how disconnected the union movement is from the interests of DL employees who know better than to vote for further union representation.

 
 

no, I haven't been on facebook but I know full well that a 3 or 4% pay raise will absolutely cover ANY health care costs.

To somehow think that someone's health care costs are going to increase by thousands of dollars per year is nothing but a lie.

And unless you have verified that those names belong to actual DL employees, you don't know if they are real or not.



and you are naïve if you don't think that DL doesn't know exactly what AA signed with its unions.
If the TA isn't public then Delta doesn't know whats in there. It doesn't work that way. Delta doesn't get a fax of the TA before the union members do. They find out about the same time as we do. 
even if 700 didn't reproduce Mr. Anderson's letter, you have access to Deltanet and can read what was sad about pay raises and medical premium insurances.

read the letter... it is on the previous page of this thread.

Even for a family, the additional cost of health care for a family is less than $30/month... for a single it could be less than $5 depending on the health plan the employee chooses.

to argue that the raise is wiped out by the increase in health care costs is nothing but a bold faced lie - or some people are REALLY bad at math.


In order for a $30/month increase in health care costs to be larger than the cost of the pay increase (not even including profit sharing), an employee would have to bring home only $750 per month - less than minimum wage.
 

and I can absolutely assure you that AA employees are seeing increased health care costs or reduced coverage.

they took a big hit on increased costs - far larger than DL employees took - as part of their BK contracts.
Because Delta had already beat down its employees two or three times before. 7.5 anyone?
AA IS NOT reversing those changes and in fact will only accelerate them.
huh? looks like they are to me. pay raises, more work coming in-house......that is that not reversing again?
argue all you want, but health care costs are real costs that airlines buy.

they are NOT going to absorb those costs and they aren't going up less at AA or Bank of America than they are at DL.

Delta is absorbing about 80% of the cost. also unlike a lot of big companies they aren't cutting who gets health care in your family. Delta has been handling the health care thing fairly well IMO. If they did that with outsourcing I would be pretty happy with the company.  
 

WT, you state there isn't one delta emp. complainging , that's a lie !! Guess you have not been on FB where they use their actual names and are identify as DL employees and many have figured out the raise won't cover their rise in their ins. premiums!!!! You have NO idea what AA/US will get , they have provisions with delta in it!! The company must abide by that. Again you make false statements and are not to be trusted!!

Then they can't do math. just sayin.... 

 

[topDawg]

True.
 

 


Same with ACS. How people think this is "fair" is beyond me.
 
 


True, though to be fair, most people boost their 401k contribution to avoid the tax bite.
 
 

Did you not read where I noted that was anecdotal? It may wind up being the case, but as of now you're basing an argument on a foundation of quicksand.

 
 

BINGO!
 
 

 
 

With no contract signed, there's nothing stopping the company from changing any part of any of this "at any time, for any reason."
 
 

So it would seem. Bully for us. Still doesn't change that you were talking out of your a$$ a couple of days ago.

the 3% or 4% is system wide AFAIK. 
I mean most of the scales are so short that the bulk of the company will get 4% right out of the gate. Its not fair.....but its a junior person problem (duck)
 
 
 
 
just kidding. 
 

Happy to hear it. Where are these?

My guess is that they know they really pi$$ed off a lot of people leaving the ramp of the Sky magazine cover. This may be an attempt to atone for it.

Thanks for the kinds words, BTW.
 ​I have seen the new commercial a ton. Probably because I am in Atlanta though.  
 

Much better to have people looking forward than looking around.
 
 

OTOH, you must be ecstatic. Look at how many people are paying attention to you!


 

No, it's a great day; if anything, it should be seen as validation of their efforts. DL is smart enough to see things like the F/A EO program at UA, the CBA's at AA & AS, and efforts on their own home turf to know they had to act. pretty much. 

 
 

thank you, Kev,
I'll remind you in the future of how much you say is hearsay and quicksand.

+717

And we discussed a long time ago that DL has ALWAYS been able to win against unions because it runs a stronger business than other airlines and with that financial advantage is able to match any raise its network peers have come up with. Unions at DL's legacy peers look at DL's compensation as the goal - IAM's chart which 700 showed prove it.
if Delta "always" wins with unions why are the margins of No voters getting smaller and smaller with the Ramp and FAs? 
Whether you or anyone else wants to argue that profit sharing is not a part of long term compensation, DL employees see it otherwise. DL's profit sharing far exceeds the pay raises that other airlines have given - and WN is absolute proof of continuous profit sharing creates far richer airline employees than those who simply wait around for union-negotiated pay raises.

It isn't part of the long term plan. Any idiot can see Delta is going to change its profit sharing plan. Its getting very, very large and I promise Wall street isn't going to let that hang around for much longer. 
 
But I would expect "something" in return for it. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, Dawg. Someone who can't add 3 or 4 % to their own salary and compare the increased cost of their health care is in pretty bad shape....

or far more likely union plants tried to jump onto an argument, stir up a huge outcry, and then found out that a very little basic math disproved their arguments.

and, yes, Dawg, I will absolutely assure you that there are executives at DL who know what AA signed with the APFA.

just sayin'

 

[topDawg]

yes, Dawg. Someone who can't add 3 or 4 % to their own salary and compare the increased cost of their health care is in pretty bad shape....

or far more likely union plants tried to jump onto an argument, stir up a huge outcry, and then found out that a very little basic math disproved their arguments.

and, yes, Dawg, I will absolutely assure you that there are executives at DL who know what AA signed with the APFA.

just sayin'

So is that a no to having the APFA TA? 
 
 
 
Hey Kev, here is the new add. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1vsRezK7v0&list=UUjSrVD08nsyPDCNRjqSV7yA

 

[Kev3188]

to say that employees put money in 401Ks solely to avoid taxes is laughable, esp. from you.

...Except that's not what I said at all. Some do it to boost the overall amount in their account, and some do it to offset the tax bite that comes with supplemental income. Nothing "sole" about multiple causal factors.

Regardless of the reasons (yes, plural), it happens enough that it was one of the first FAQ's answered today for actual DL employees.

 

[WorldTraveler]

ok.... so it isn't the "sole" erason.

and no one is going to lose regardless of the reason people put money in their 401K.

the profit sharing fosters increased contributions to 401Ks.

I'm sure the IAM has data to show how much their employees have contributed to their 401ks. NOT.

since it will likely show that the lack of profit sharing at airlines like US has resulted in lower contributions to 401Ks since financial experts and the IRS know that lump sum compensation is the number one source of increased contributions to 401Ks.

and it would also show that DL employees on average undoubtedly have better retirement protection than employees who rely only on the IAM's DB plan.

 

[Kev3188]

how you get this at all i have know idea. Very few people at Delta want a union for pay reasons.

This bears it with most of the people I speak to across the system.

if Delta "always" wins with unions why are the margins of No voters getting smaller and smaller with the Ramp and FAs?

Good question.


...Meanwhile, the cards just keep coming...

 

[Kev3188]

ok.... so it isn't the "sole" erason.

You shoulda caught that the first time through. You also shoulda seen what 700 was referring to, and how/why I responded the way I did.

I know this is a big day for you, but try harder.

 

[WorldTraveler]

uh, there has been ONE vote since DL and NW merged. At that vote, tens of thousands of former NW employees suddenly became owners of worthless union cards. The rate of NO voters hasn't changed. A data point of one makes NO trend.

There isn't a DL person - and I can guarantee you - that will say they don't want their profit sharing if the sole option is to put it in their 401k.

and let's be clear that for many DL pilots, their profit sharing checks EXCEED the IRS limits for annual 401K contributions. It only takes a 12% profit sharing and $145K salary to exceed 401k contribution limits - even if the only 401K contributions come from profit sharing and all of the profit sharing goes to the 401k.

 

[Kev3188]

uh, there has been ONE vote since DL and NW merged. At that vote, tens of thousands of former NW employees suddenly became owners of worthless union cards. The rate of NO voters hasn't changed. A data point of one makes NO trend.

Go with that if it makes you feel better.

A vote a few years ago doesn't change the fact that cards continue to stream in for another vote.

 

[WorldTraveler]

we should just sit down for coffee, Kev.

ONE vote years ago means there could not be a change in the rate of no votes because one point does not permit calculating a rate of change.

someone "embellished" their statement.

 

[metopower]

Happy to hear it. Where are these?My guess is that they know they really pi$$ed off a lot of people leaving the ramp of the Sky magazine cover. This may be an attempt to atone for it.Thanks for the kinds words, BTW.  
Saw it on CNN this morning. Part of new series of commercials