Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.
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metopower
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cv580 b737-200 737-300 b727 dc10 md11topDawg said:
Was in the 3 rd class only flew the mizuies.
Reason that the 401 match is higher is because we have no retirement like you. So the deal was to give us more to the 401 and a higher life insurance policy to try to bridge the gap. Original DL pilots do not gave a frozen retirement like the NW guys. Pbgc is NOT guaranteed to survive . I lost 1/2 of my retirement so sorry they are giving me a few more percent. And on top of it the NW guys get the same....seems fair.
topDawg
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Okay you don't have no retirement, but i don't disagree you took it in the shorts.metopower said:
but its not just a few more percent. Its a metric **** ton of percents. We get 2+5+5 (so 12% overall) You get what 14.5 +14.5 so 30%? That is a hell of a difference(and its going to be even more of a difference with the earn opportunity you have vs us) . We also lost the 5th week of vacation because you lost your pension and we didn't.
but our new hires have less of a pension than your new hires. (correct me if I am wrong but they will get something from PBGC)
I don't believe thats remotely close to being right.
I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here, but our pension sucks. Pretty sure we are the bottom of the barrel with the AA mechanics. I think WN gives right around 10%.
and FWIW I do have a pension but I am not planning anything around it. I am in my 401K and some other investments I made a long time ago but I don't want to get burned depending on the pension. (I couldn't even tell you how much I'll get. I'll just wait for the check to show up and see what happens)
WorldTraveler
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If you don't agree that pilots didn't take it in the shorts then you have no idea how much the pension termination cost pilots far more than it did any other workgroup.
DL pilots are the only group on the property that had their pensions terminated. yes, they got a couple billion in stock and yes they are many that still got million dollar cash payouts but DL pilots absolutely fared worse because of the pension termination,
I know plenty of DL pilots - retired and active who are working beyond when they had planned or who retired and then found out they lost far more than they had planned because of the pension termination. And, btw, this isn't a DL only issue. the same is true for UA and US pilots as well. DL pilots have recovered their salaries far faster in large part because the company has done as well as it has, profit sharing has been paid to all employee groups on the same percentage, and DL has done more to bring pilot and FA jobs back inhouse even if ACS personnel have long worked whatever type of aircraft comes up to the gate - DL or DCI.
Further, the difference in pay raises that you and others keep talking about came because DL pilots gave up scope (more large RJs). You and others argue DL's other employees have no scope - and yet DL has its own employees working in more stations and DL has more BW stations than AA or UA. All of the paper at other airlines means nothing if DL surpasses that scope without paper.
further, pilots are paid based on market wages for pilots, exactly the way any pay calculations will be made
so, I'm sure you and others will argue about the reasons but I can also assure you that a union at any other workgroup will have no success at addressing your concerns because they are based on an unwillingness to accept the markt-based facts which any negotiator or arbiter knows cover those workgroups
DL pilots are the only group on the property that had their pensions terminated. yes, they got a couple billion in stock and yes they are many that still got million dollar cash payouts but DL pilots absolutely fared worse because of the pension termination,
I know plenty of DL pilots - retired and active who are working beyond when they had planned or who retired and then found out they lost far more than they had planned because of the pension termination. And, btw, this isn't a DL only issue. the same is true for UA and US pilots as well. DL pilots have recovered their salaries far faster in large part because the company has done as well as it has, profit sharing has been paid to all employee groups on the same percentage, and DL has done more to bring pilot and FA jobs back inhouse even if ACS personnel have long worked whatever type of aircraft comes up to the gate - DL or DCI.
Further, the difference in pay raises that you and others keep talking about came because DL pilots gave up scope (more large RJs). You and others argue DL's other employees have no scope - and yet DL has its own employees working in more stations and DL has more BW stations than AA or UA. All of the paper at other airlines means nothing if DL surpasses that scope without paper.
further, pilots are paid based on market wages for pilots, exactly the way any pay calculations will be made
so, I'm sure you and others will argue about the reasons but I can also assure you that a union at any other workgroup will have no success at addressing your concerns because they are based on an unwillingness to accept the markt-based facts which any negotiator or arbiter knows cover those workgroups
WorldTraveler
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the 88 717s when all delivered actually allow DL to add more large RJs... whether DL will do that or not remains to be seen.
and you should know that scope restrictions in union contracts don't allow something to be swapped for something taken unless it is negotiated.
and even if DL accepts more large RJs, the number of RJs in the fleet and non-DL pilots that operate them is being reduced while there is little movement at AA or UA to reduce the total RJ fleet OR there is actually an increase in total RJs.
DL didn't take anything in scope away from DL FAs or ACS personnel. ACS personnel are working more DL mainline flights and in most stations also work RJs as well. DL FAs are benefitting from increased mainline flying
what happens in real life is more indicative of how effective airlines are at protecting scope than what is written on a CBA and walked all over at AA and UA.
and you should know that scope restrictions in union contracts don't allow something to be swapped for something taken unless it is negotiated.
and even if DL accepts more large RJs, the number of RJs in the fleet and non-DL pilots that operate them is being reduced while there is little movement at AA or UA to reduce the total RJ fleet OR there is actually an increase in total RJs.
DL didn't take anything in scope away from DL FAs or ACS personnel. ACS personnel are working more DL mainline flights and in most stations also work RJs as well. DL FAs are benefitting from increased mainline flying
what happens in real life is more indicative of how effective airlines are at protecting scope than what is written on a CBA and walked all over at AA and UA.
robbedagain
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a $4.30 reduction is quite a reduction.... good luck with the card drive hope the ACS will join the FAs in getting a union election soon!
Aviation High School Students Visit the Winpisinger Center For 13th Consecutive Year - For the 13th consecutive year, students from New York City’s Aviation High School visited the IAM’s William W. Winpisinger (WWW) Education and Technology Center in Hollywood, MD last week for a unique look inside the U.S. transportation industry.
Each year, Aviation High School students spend four days at the WWW and in Washington, D.C. to learn about unions and the aviation industry.
The group arrived Sunday to the WWW to check-in and attend orientation. Monday was chock full of classes, from Accident Investigation to Why Politics Matters. On Tuesday, the class visited the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) in Washington, DC.
This year, the students' project was complex, relating to policy development and navigating the political environment to achieve their policy objective. They were asked to choose an aviation related public policy that they would like to see implemented and then how would they achieve their public policy objective and make it law.
The program ended with a tour of IAM Headquarters and closing remarks from IAM General Vice President Sito Pantoja, himself an Aviation High School graduate.
"The students from Aviation High School never fail to impress me," said General Vice President Sito Pantoja. "They represent aviation's future and I am very proud of the IAM's continuing relationship with the school and our efforts to offer these students a first-hand look into the industry they are preparing to enter."
Each year, Aviation High School students spend four days at the WWW and in Washington, D.C. to learn about unions and the aviation industry.
The group arrived Sunday to the WWW to check-in and attend orientation. Monday was chock full of classes, from Accident Investigation to Why Politics Matters. On Tuesday, the class visited the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) in Washington, DC.
This year, the students' project was complex, relating to policy development and navigating the political environment to achieve their policy objective. They were asked to choose an aviation related public policy that they would like to see implemented and then how would they achieve their public policy objective and make it law.
The program ended with a tour of IAM Headquarters and closing remarks from IAM General Vice President Sito Pantoja, himself an Aviation High School graduate.
"The students from Aviation High School never fail to impress me," said General Vice President Sito Pantoja. "They represent aviation's future and I am very proud of the IAM's continuing relationship with the school and our efforts to offer these students a first-hand look into the industry they are preparing to enter."
How many times do I have to answer the same question?
The members elect their leaders to the District, they write and vote on their own bylaws.
The District runs on its own, how many times do I have to say the same thing?
The District negotiates and enforces the CBA, and even the dues money is sent to the District from the company, not the International.
And you never answer anything, especially when you are proven wrong over and over.
The members elect their leaders to the District, they write and vote on their own bylaws.
The District runs on its own, how many times do I have to say the same thing?
The District negotiates and enforces the CBA, and even the dues money is sent to the District from the company, not the International.
And you never answer anything, especially when you are proven wrong over and over.
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