Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[700UW]

And once again , your the instigator of personal attacks, in a topic you labeled,"No Personal Attacks".....so get ready to start whining and moaning to the mods.....something I don't do!

BS, you call people liars, so thats a personal attack.
 
And you cant keep on topic, as you constantly post wrong information and use the person attack things to distract people from your serious lack of knowledge.

So why dont you explain Section 1113 C of the bankruptcy code, to show yourself that your wrong?

 

[700UW]

Americans Are Becoming More Pro-Union

Public perception of unions took a hit during the Great Recession, but is now at its highest point in six years.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/public-opinion-labor-unions_55d22e67e4b0ab468d9dfa7f?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013&section=politics

 

[WorldTraveler]

again, talking in generalities changes nothing in the reality that DELTA employees have chosen NOT to be represented by unions and the DL family is less unionized than its predecessors were.

the reason is simple... DL has done a better job of providing what DL employees want and what their unionized peers are getting than at any other airline.

and in BK, DL employees took fewer cuts and the workforce was reduced less than at other airlines.

Those are the government stats, which like compensation increases you don't want to look at but instead trot out general data regarding unionization that has nothing to do with DL or the airline industry.

 

[Kev3188]

Americans Are Becoming More Pro-Union Public perception of unions took a hit during the Great Recession, but is now at its highest point in six years.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/public-opinion-labor-unions_55d22e67e4b0ab468d9dfa7f?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013&section=politics

Easy to do when the fallacy of corporate messaging is exposed...

 

[WorldTraveler]

I think the discussion here is about DL... but perhaps I am mistaken.

show us something how that PERCEPTION - which no one here has challenged - has translated into more union positions at DL other than the growth of DL's unionized pilot workforce plus the smaller unionized groups - I presume DL has a few more dispatchers given the growth of the airline, maybe another meteorologist.

 

[topDawg]

Never said I didn't understand inflation and if you care to take the time you'll noticed I pointed out the link didn't work and was ineffective concerning 700's post!

And yes, we all know there are jobs going nowhere, and when you in one of those, you find a field in which you can grow. Sorry you and others have an issue with that but, there it is!

wow 
well i'm glad you have such a great and easy life southwind. I really hope you never get laid off cause it is very clear you would have a very hard time outside of Delta land
 

Dawg, I always enjoy your posts of reality.

I try
 

and there are plenty of people who are coming in, are competent, and are capable of doing the job the company needs.

If there weren't people who were willing to work for what was offered, DL couldn't do what it does.

and of course as much as you think that DL will just open its pocketbook EVEN WIDER and pay its employees EVEN MORE, the answer to providing a better RR program is to pay FT, benefitted employees less

You do realize, Kevin, that the realize why you are paid as well as you are is because DL is able to hire lower paid, shorter-term labor to work alongside you?

are you willing to accept lower pay in order for DL to increase the pay of RR employees?

I would. To bring everything that was outsourced in BK back in-house on the TechOps side that would mean at most a ~2 bucks an hour less. (high balling) 
Hell it would be made up in the overtime the company would be offering anyways. I'll make that trade gladly
 

Oooo....more pretty charts and graphs!


    
Haven't heard of one single person @ TechOps who's classified as RR!

you don't look real hard. 
 
do you think that big "Ready Reserve Changes" tab on the TechOps home page if for ACS?  
 

Who forced these people to take these jobs?

Well generally you can't make a rent payment on hopes and dreams......
 

Telling someone to leave their job or not try and make improvements where they work IS ANTI-WORKER.

But you don't see it that way as you are the most anti-worker poster on this board.

trying to change anything about mother Delta is bad in WTs eyes. Everything they do is right. Trust in the force......
 

I didn't say someone shouldn't quit trying to improve their job... you just happen to not accept that there are ways to do that other than thru a union... and the evidence shows that DL and its people have done more to improve the entire work package than at their peer airlines.

and I also didn't say that anyone should leave their employer... but you also fail to note that DL didn't CHANGE the basic structure of the RR program since those people were hired... it was a part-time, temporary, non-benefitted position from the beginning. Further, DL has maintained a very clear separation between permanent, FT employees and RRs.

Kev still refuses to answer the question if he would be willing to reduce his pay in order to provide more to RRs and there is a very good reason... because he won't and I don't blame him. I doubt seriously that you will find FT employees at DL that would give up part of their own salary to improve salaries and compensation for RRs. Kev has played by the rules and did what it took to become FT and at the top of the scale. many others have done the same thing.

Kevin and you are pandering to RRs solely in the hope of gaining something that is unattainable - removal of the basic components of the RR program while not touching FT employees.

You need only look at where WN's labor groups are in their negotiations. Stalled.

You and unionistas act as if you can force the company to give what it hasn't already given. WN mgmt. disagrees with your assessment that unions force pay and benefits higher.

When the well is dry, the company gives no more. and yet DL because of its industry leading operational performance and profits - which is where DL profit sharing is based - are moving faster and higher up the ladder than at any other airline.

Pro-worker is getting people what they can achieve, not what can be promised and then never delivered.

Union accountability is holding labor unions to the standard of comparing how well they have done compared to other options, in this case being non-union for DL employees.

it is not hard to see why you and the PRO-LABOR movement want to cast others as anti-worker when in fact the current option has been proven to be more pro-worker than the union alternative... if money has anything to do with the equation.

Stalled and still making more than Delta employees IIRC. 
 
Just like the argument with the pilots sometimes being stalled isn't a bad thing. 
 

you mean you don't have it signed by a union official on a piece of paper that has been run roughshod over in Bk court and which union officials have given away in "negotiations" such as what the IAM did regarding scope for UA's IAM-represented rampers.

what you do, have, Kevin, is far stronger job protections that have been proven to be in the best interests of not only YOU but also the company.

You've been a DL employee since the merger, right? that's coming up on 7 years. your station hasn't been closed.

in far less time than you have been a DL employee, AA and UA have outsourced DOZENS - perhaps SCORES of cities.

so, no, Kev, you don't have a contract that can be torn up and given away because the majority think they are better off by selling the minority down the river - which is what the IAM and TWU have done.

instead, you have a solution that has provided you and your peers with the highest average compensation EVEN WITH THE RR program and a benefits package that exceeds those at AA and UA - and is comparable to UA's.

And don't throw QOL out there as if it is some non-numerical fudge factor that can override everything else. QOL items have a cost not just in a CBA but to the company.

If you could actually show me that a union has delivered something better at your most direct peers, I'd line up in a heartbeat behind your campaign.

but it is precisely because I am PRO DL WORKER that I can't support unionization that would actually lead to lower compensation

hmmmm I feel like something happened at American during those years that Delta already did. Anyone? Anyone? 
 
Oh yeah, bankruptcy. How about we compare post BK, pre merger Delta below wing to pre-merger post BK American? 
 

we saw it played out in real life multiple times last decade.

We did
 
then you twist it into what you want because you don't have a clue how things like the 1113/RLA/Unions/Contracts etc works. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

we are comparing post BK to post BK now. AA is out and finished.

when AA starts adding stations back, you can start a topic to show how they have reversed the tide.

we DO know how 1113 works. DOT data shows that DL cut a smaller percentage of employees and DL employee payroll was cut less than for UA, US, and NW.

I'd like to see all of that maintenance work brought back inhouse but DL simply cannot do it with the facilities it has.... and given that AA went down the same path of cutting maintenance facilities, there isn't a carrier in the industry that is prepared to do anywhere close to 100% of its work inhouse.

 

[southwind]

wow 
well i'm glad you have such a great and easy life southwind. I really hope you never get laid off cause it is very clear you would have a very hard time outside of Delta

Have been there and done that! And who knows, may happen again....it's called life and no, I have definitely not spent my entire aircraft career at DL, so I DO know what life is like outside of DL and through all of that I NEVER felt like someone or some company owed me!

And BTW, if DL brought back in all the outsourced work, they'd need a helluva lot more hanger space!

 

[700UW]

Fired baggage handler reaches settlement with Delta Air Lines
http://www.workdayminnesota.org/articles/fired-baggage-handler-reaches-settlement-delta-air-lines

 

[WorldTraveler]

The terms of the settlement, which was filed Aug. 13 in U.S. District Court in Minneapolis, were not disclosed. He said he will not be returning to work at the airline.

 

[robbedagain]

people are signing union cards for representation       Ive said it before  I believe he was illegally fired    DL at its best  with intimidation for those who seek to become union is flat out wrong

 

[WorldTraveler]

Y ou are free to believe what you want, robbed, but the terms of the settlement weren't disclosed but it is highly unlikely that it includes any admission of guilt on DL or Kip's fault and an agreement for both to go their separate ways... that is almost always the way those kinds of things work.

 

[700UW]

You mean DL paid him off for his sllence.

 

[WorldTraveler]

kinda like the IAM pays DL FAs to organize?

 

[700UW]

kinda like the IAM pays DL FAs to organize?

Apples to Oranges and your statement makes no sense, organizers dont keep silent.