Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[700UW]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iObqguaNDdA

 

[topDawg]

Southwind I'm curious about something. In your career at Delta have you ever had a moment where a manager got a little wordy with you? Ever scold or reprimand you and basically say "You better make sure that never happens again" or anything similar that made you feel like dirt?

WeAAsles its pretty clear you don't know much about the TechOps side of the house. 
I have never had a foreman come remotely close to this. If i did I would walk, with him/her, right up to HR and I can promise that I wouldn't be the person walking out in trouble. 
 
For the most part, at least in the hangar, we don't see our foreman much outside of the meetings. Sometimes they will come out for a minute but they know that bird dogging isn't a good way to get things done.
Also the majority of the lower management comes from the hangar floor as it is and knows what is like. 
 

Are you able to stand up and throw it back in their face? Have you? If you have were you nervous that that manager may be gunning for you? Or when it happened (And I'm sure it's had to have happened a few times) do you just capitulate to the verbal assault and walk away shaking in anger because you were too afraid to say something back to that guy?

This is a business. Union or not union we all need to act like adults and be professional. As i said if I were getting verbally abused by management then we would simply be going upstairs to HR with the issue. I wouldn't "throw it back in his face" because I am a professional. 
 
it has nothing to do with the fear of being fired and everything to do with acting my age. (and FWIW I wouldn't get fired if I did. Might get a day or two off to cool down but thats about it) 
 

Honestly I know very well what that feels like. I didn't start working in a Union job until I was 30. You know you go home at the end of your shift and your entire night is destroyed because you're so angry. Because you feel like a weenie (Insert stronger word). You might even be shaking because you're so mad? Then the next day you see that manager again and you have no choice but to put your head down just a little and hope he doesn't target you again.

Like i said, you don't know or understand what its like on our side. Might be different if you wear red, but if you wear blue the company and management simply doesn't act that way. Its all about numbers, if you bay isn't pushing your checks out on time you are going to get moved. You only get moved so many times before your gone. (maybe not from the company but you wont be on the hangar floor anymore) 
Not only that but they are on the merit scale so if you want your piece of the merit pie you better have good numbers. If you want a good crew, you better be a good foreman. If you want all the shitty guys in the hangar with low time in your bay, then be like what you are talking about above. (and as i said then you will quickly be moved to an office somewhere, probably across the street) 
 
We had some exNWA people that came down here and quickly found out that the **** you are talking about simply doesn't fly at Delta TechOps 
 

I guess I just get to enjoy a different way of being able to deal with that then you do. 😀 

Do you also enjoy things like time clocks and a stand off relationship between management and labor? 
 
Cause what you want for DTO would quickly turn us in the clusterf**k that is American Airlines. I personally like producing over 600M in extra revenue for the company because we can get other airlines to bring there work in here. 
 
We have our problems. We outsource way to much, IMO, but overall a union would do more harm at TechOps than good. 
The only way it would work is if it was an in-house (maybe and that is a big maybe, AMFA) lead by people who are not super militant. 
 
 
It is probably very different on the ramp and I get that, but if you work for DTO and want a union like the IAM or TWU you are a fool.  
 
 
FWIW not trying to be an ass if it comes off that way. 

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Management deserves the respect they earn.

They also deserve the union that may or may not come with the above.

Does that make sense to anyone here?

Clearly, Dawg does.

 

[Kev3188]

Management deserves the respect they earn.
They also deserve the union that may or may not come with the above.
Does that make sense to anyone here?
Clearly, Dawg does.

It makes perfect sense.

If only life in ACS was the way Dawg describes Tech Ops...

 

[topDawg]

Management deserves the respect they earn.

They also deserve the union that may or may not come with the above.

Does that make sense to anyone here?

Clearly, Dawg does.

exactly. 
 
and at TechOps, at least on the hangar floor, they will chew up and spit you out pretty quickly if you come in acting like they own the place. 
 
Southwind can comment what its like in the shops but for the most part it is the same everywhere. 

 

[metopower]

Thanks Dawg. That was A clear well explained description of life here at DL. As someone that has come over here from another airline that all rings true. It is hard to explain and you did as well or better then anyone has. It's just different how people just get along here.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Thanks Dawg. That was A clear well explained description of life here at DL. As someone that has come over here from another airline that all rings true. It is hard to explain and you did as well or better then anyone has. It's just different how people just get along here.

I get it. I have been a rep, non rep, and worked for union and non union workplaces.

I have many friends who work for Delta. Some who are former NWA (non scabs) and some who have been at Delta pre Western and post Western, but strong Delta.

My father has many of his now retired friends who were long time Captains at Delta.

Without giving away anymore, I am intimately familiar with the way it was, and the way it is.

A union is not something the mechanics need ATT.

Ramp...way overdue.

 

[WeAAsles]

It makes perfect sense.
If only life in ACS was the way Dawg describes Tech Ops...

I can guess by your comment that life is not the same for ACS as it is in Tech Ops at Delta?

Different departments with different skill sets are treated in different ways there Dawg.

To bad everyone is not treated the same no matter what. My CONTRACT does that for me though here at my little airline.

 

[WeAAsles]

A union is not something the mechanics need ATT.
Ramp...way overdue.

I can fly with this. And FA'S as well if you read many of the horror stories off that FB group page.

Yes I believe those stories.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW Southwind never answered my question?

I think I might know the reason why?

 

[topDawg]

Thanks Dawg. That was A clear well explained description of life here at DL. As someone that has come over here from another airline that all rings true. It is hard to explain and you did as well or better then anyone has. It's just different how people just get along here.

I will say the ramp needs to be treated much better than they are. The rest of us are treated quite well though IMO. 
 

I get it. I have been a rep, non rep, and worked for union and non union workplaces.

I have many friends who work for Delta. Some who are former NWA (non scabs) and some who have been at Delta pre Western and post Western, but strong Delta.

My father has many of his now retired friends who were long time Captains at Delta.

Without giving away anymore, I am intimately familiar with the way it was, and the way it is.

A union is not something the mechanics need ATT.

Ramp...way overdue.

agreed. 
 

I can guess by your comment that life is not the same for ACS as it is in Tech Ops at Delta?

Different departments with different skill sets are treated in different ways there Dawg.

To bad everyone is not treated the same no matter what. My CONTRACT does that for me though here at my little airline.

 
 

 
It is probably very different on the ramp and I get that, but if you work for DTO and want a union like the IAM or TWU you are a fool.  

I said that. 
 
and no I'm sorry, but YOUR CONTRACT is dragging people like me DOWN not up. I'm sorry AA brings in s**t management, but YOUR UNION has also done a metric s**t ton of damage to MY craft. The same can be said for the IBT and IAM. Just as much damage as management has done. 
 
For the most part your unions are stuck in the 1950 and are ran by people who have no business running a union. IMHO if I was going to vote in a union, the person running it needs to have a business education. I would prefer someone with an accounting degree or finance degree. I have seen plenty of your union people post on here and other places and it is very clear they can't run the numbers. Again, JMO

 

[WeAAsles]

Dawg I'm not going to debate the merits of which Union or which representative or which team pulls in more weight. I like your style and think you got a good head on your shoulders . Some Unions traded cash for jobs and other Unions traded jobs for cash. When you look at all the surviving airline pizza pies over the course of years, the pies all are around the same size. (The one difference being the TWU A Hole President's who agreed to and VOTED in the B scale all those years ago)

We each like and support what we feel is best for us. For me that's being in a Union and having a CBA. I like the continuity of that. I like knowing nothing in my contract can change on a whim. (Yea management got our arse back in 03 and used a law hammer in the BK)

Unless you work at SWA you went through a world of shite too.

Again you don't need a Union or you would take one if it's the one of your choice? Great, fantastic, vundaba. I don't fault anyone who is doing alright and feels secure. But your company (from all I read) doesn't treat EVERYONE the same.

I've read too many of your posts now that tell me you know this and then some.

So you don't like the IAM, IBT, CWA, TWU, ILGWU. OK cool. BUT if it's AMFA you might be pining away for, they don't want Stewardesses and I know they aren't interested in Ramp Rats either.

(Oh and those Unions all have those people working for them who have business, finance and Law degrees, still didn't stop us from taking it on the chin over the last decade. Just like you)

 

[topDawg]

Dawg I'm not going to debate the merits of which Union or which representative or which team pulls in more weight. I like your style and think you got a good head on your shoulders . Some Unions traded cash for jobs and other Unions traded jobs for cash. When you look at all the surviving airline pizza pies over the course of years, the pies all are around the same size. (The one difference being the TWU A Hole President's who agreed to and VOTED in the B scale all those years ago)

But i disagree here to a point, 
on the MX side we are the best paid of the big three and have the second lowest outsourcing %. So the pies to me are very different. 
 
Plenty of things i want to change (outsourcing and the 401K plan being the biggest of them) but I personally don't think a union helps me get it done. 
 

We each like and support what we feel is best for us. For me that's being in a Union and having a CBA. I like the continuity of that. I like knowing nothing in my contract can change on a whim. (Yea management got our arse back in 03 and used a law hammer in the BK)

and if I were you at your airline at your job I would want a union. If i were Kev at Delta I would want a union. 
 

Unless you work at SWA you went through a world of shite too.

been here for BK. Been here for 9/11. Been here for 7.5. Been here for Leo. Been here for Ron. 
 
yeah i have seen my fair share of things. 
 

Again you don't need a Union or you would take one if it's the one of your choice? Great, fantastic, vundaba. I don't fault anyone who is doing alright and feels secure. But your company (from all I read) doesn't treat EVERYONE the same.

They don't. 
and its not right. 
 
Simple fact is, Kev has a problem. DGS is that problem. I believe that ACS and Maintenance has to produce other airline revenue to show the company and more importantly wall street why they should stay around. Delta doesn't give 120 that chance because of DGS.
The treatment between  red and blue isn't right. I agree with that 100%. 
 

I've read too many of your posts now that tell me you know this and then some.

i do.
 

So you don't like the IAM, IBT, CWA, TWU, ILGWU. OK cool. BUT if it's AMFA you might be pining away for, they don't want Stewardesses and I know they aren't interested in Ramp Rats either.

exactly. that is exactly what I want. I want a union that is for my craft and my craft only. I want a union who is going to worry about the me, the Delta mechanic. 
 
I would want a union who is not only going to grow the Delta side of the house but the MRO side as well. I don't believe the unions like the IAM/TWU/IBT etc. etc. would do that.  
 

(Oh and those Unions all have those people working for them who have business, finance and Law degrees, still didn't stop us from taking it on the chin over the last decade. Just like you)

I don't disagree here at all with your point. 
having said that, I feel like if you can't understand how the business operates then the company already has a leg up on you. If i were to join a union i want that union to work WITH the company for a fair (to both sides) CBA. I want a union who is going to understand the business and try to find cost cutting measures day in and day out in the operation to keep us competitive not only against AA and UA but the big MROs of the world as well.
I know the IAM and the like wont do this. 
I question if AMFA could do it. 

 

[700UW]

See that's where you are wrong, as far back as EA the IAM has worked to save money, we did it at US in the late 90s early 2000s, how do you think the line hsngar in CLT got built?

 

[WeAAsles]

And the TWU has never worked with AA to try and bring costs down or assist in generating revenue by bringing in OAL work.

Wait what's this?

http://www.aviationtoday.com/mobile/getitem.php?item=484