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Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

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FWAAA said:
I believe that the reason that dawg is placing his text inside the quotes (with bolding) is that the board software no longer accommodates chopping up quotes into several bits like it used to.    Previously, we could use the UBB Code to close the quote and respond, then open the quote again and respond.   Now, if you do that, it causes everything to go haywire.    My preference would be to use bright colors to denote the response, as the bolded text isn't that much different from the very light gray regular text.
(Probably old news, but just in case...)

If you're using the "full version" when you posting there's a light switch in the up left hand corner. if you click that, it'll toggle back & forth between the "old way" and the new, enriched text. I do that when chopping up quotes, then switch it to the new version if adding links, using italics, etc. The mobile version still allows chopping the same as always, and UBB code for italics, etc.
 
 
737823 said:
Comments about unions being self-serving for the interest of the leadership, untouchable and unaccountable for their actions. Remarks that many of the F/As have unreasonable expectations and will never be happy with what the company provides. Calling posters "union thugs". Is any of this really a surprise to you?

Josh
Coming from you? Of course not.

Still not buying for a second that any of it got you kicked off of that site, and absolutely not buying that the admin. there does the sort of wholesale banning of people you're trying to claim he does.
 
hey WT  you have been OUT of the AIRLINE for close to 10 yrs  TIMES HAVE CHANGED  you have not.  Stop acting like a DL spokesman who knows what best for the employees  I hope the day comes real soon that the IAM announces they have DL FAs and ACS  cant wait for WT reaction    and stop acting like youre right all the time  youve been proven wrong multiple times yet you change the subject to deflect  what a buffoon you are
 
first, Robbie,
I have NOT been out of the industry for even CLOSE to 10 years and second what I learned at DL in the decades I was there was and IS more than you will ever know.

DL is not US, is not AA, or UA, or WN.

You can't grasp that your being in the airline industry gives you ABSOLUTELY no insight into what goes on at DL.

I can talk to people at NBC about their company and listen to their opinions but it will never give me insight that would ever come from having worked there in the past or present.

and, let's be honest, you and 700 are trying desperately to paint me as out of touch SOLELY so that you can push your union agenda.

Not only do I spend more than enough time talking with DL people and being on DL flights to know what really goes on, but I also know what I know and what I do not.

The IAM won't be announcing anything that they have won at robbed.

If you or anyone else has that as a goal, you will be sorely disappointed.


Kev,
the alternative to being able to chop up posts is to be copy and duplicate the same quote and then pick out what I want to quote.

The technique of how it is done is far less significant than the fact that being able to respond to dawg's posts requires adding lots of text in order for the context to be known.

hey weAAsle,
RED in reference to money usually signifies a LOSS.

Perhaps your use of RED to link money is linked to your experience as a union member at an airline.

most of us see money in black font.
 
Ah, the humility ... what breathtaking (and breathtakingly misplaced) arrogance.  Priceless.
 
🙄 
 
Kev3188 said:
Coming from you? Of course not.Still not buying for a second that any of it got you kicked off of that site, and absolutely not buying that the admin. there does the sort of wholesale banning of people you're trying to claim he does.
Believe whatever you want, after all you would know better than me what actually happened.

Point is that page is full of idealist out of touch, disgruntled employees that are never pleased with what DL has to offer. Major carriers receive upwards of 20+ applications for each F/A position they intend to fill. People show up in droves to work in that profession for dirt wages which has always appealed to some. The only requirements are having a clean background check, correctable vision, not being obese or having other medical conditions and eight weeks of employer provided training. Surely in the current environment carriers are having no problem finding qualified and often bi/multi-lingual candidates either. So if they are so unhappy DL being the only major unorganized carrier why don't they leave? After all they are so indispensable to DL theyll easily be hired at an OAL (that's aleady organized). The unions have only tried three times now and failed.

Josh
 
Airlinelifer said:
You have a DL retiree, a DL mechanic, and a financial industry employee telling us what's best. LOL
LOL Love it. Now if you'll excuse me I need to get back to watching Fox news.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU
 
WeAAsles said:
I like this thread:
 

DID YOU KNOW?----------------------------------------------------------
1.) Union dues are payroll deducted just once a month, not twice!
2.) That those union dues are tax deductable when you file!
3.) That unionized Flight Attendants’ sick calls and other occurrences usually only stay on their record for 9 months!
4.) That at our company, it can be any length... 9, 12 months or up to 3 years!
5.) That with a union, you have a right to bring in a union rep. anytime you are called in!
6.) That no Manager cares if you do bring in that union rep! ( It’s common practice.)
7.) That the towers of anti-union flyers you see in the Inflight lounges would be replaced with union boards full of information and contact numbers!
8.) Do you know that our Pilots and the Pilots AND Flight Attendants at every unionized airline have something called “SCOPE!
9.) Did you know that “SCOPE” legally forbids your employer from outsourcing you!
10.) That with a union and contract that your airline can still give you a raise!
11.) That all large airlines have that special day in initial training where you watch a slide show with moving music and photos of airplanes taking off and landing! ( Flight Attendants at the other airlines also love their companies! )
12.) Did you know that Wal-mart also tells their employees that a union would ruin their special culture!
13.) That our Pilots settled their last union contract negotiations in just months!
14.) That even if it did take awhile to negotiate a contract, that many times “retro” pay comes in to play. Imagine getting a contract along with a big check!
15.) That when negotiating a contract, the union will look at what other unionized groups at your airline are getting along with what other Flight Attendants at other unionized airlines get. If the airline will not negotiate in good faith, then an Arbitration Judge is brought in!
16.) That our Pilots get 270 hours of sick time a year because of their union contract. You get 49!
17.) That with a union you can still love your company and job!
18.) That with a union you will have a Professional Standards Committee where you can voice a concern to a co-worker….without the company being able to know about it!
19.) That with a union there will be a Safety Committee that looks at things such as cart safety, carriers, galleys, etc! ( You would have a say…)
20.)That CEOs do not have to take care of you! ( Who will be our next CEO? )
21.) That we all like the A-day system and just want to make improvements on it… such as pay, and a limit to how many years one could be with 6 A-days! ( that is just not right! )
22.) That you CAN sign a card while on probation!
23.) That with a union if you get hurt on the job, you will be protected by your union!
24.) That at NWA we got COMPLETE uniform replacements every 2 years! ( For me that was 2 blazers, 4 pants, 6 shirts and ties! )
25.) That you can stop in a see your Manager anytime as a unionized F/A!
26.) That your company can NOT see, know or ask if you signed a card!
27.) That when the election is called. That you will start receiving huge glossy mailings from your company trying hard to confuse you on the subject of unionizing!
28.) You will probably NEVER have to deal with anyone from your Master union. You will not be required to attend any union meeting.
29.) That you can NOT have a witness or Lawyer with you if you are called-in on anything without a union!
30.) That “AT-WILL” means that your employment is at the will of your employer!
31.) That bad employees can be fired with a union. ( just takes longer )
32.) That as a good employee it would be very hard to be fired with a union behind you!
33.) That the union called the AFA was the force that got smoking off commercial flights!
34.) That the I AM represented Continental Flight Attendants and had the highest pay. Yes, they merged with United and voted in United’s AFA….because there were more United F/As than there were Continental F/As. ( People fear change…sound familiar? )
35.) That the I A M is the union we are trying to get in!
36.) That on our level….WE…… you, me and all the Flight Attendants here would be the union!
37.) That by law with a union our employer has to negotiate with us in regard to pay and work rules!
38.) That even with a union you do not have to wear your union pin or display a bag tag! (Your participation is up to you! )
39.) That Marin Luther King, Jr. was Pro- Union!
40.) That you will love the camaraderie a union brings!
41.) That non-union workers earn less in pay and benefits than their unionized counter-parts!
42.) That your employer knows the above and is desperately trying to keep it out for that reason and that reason ONLY!
43.) That we lost our last election by just 100 and something swing votes.
44.) That many who voted against unionization in that last election now regret it!
45.) That with a union WE as a group get to take surveys and then vote on what WE would like in OUR contract! ( Just like OUR Pilots got to do! )
46.) And OUR Pilots seem to love the company too….and they are unionized!
47.) That our probation period for new hires is in place to mimic other unionized companies. The difference is that at those other companies after probation they become permanent employees via their contracts!
48.) Did you know that XXXXXXXX is famous and a very nice person!
49.) Did you know that as an airline worker you fall under the Railway Labor Act and are suppose to have a union!
50.) With a union you have the right to see your file at anytime!
 I like the majority of this list btw. 

 
Kev3188 said:
Bingo.

How better to distract people than throw some cash at them? Oh, and while everyone's dazzled with money they would've gotten in Feb. anyway, the company quietly announced an elimination of an HRA plan, to be replaced with an HSA option. I'm no finance whiz, but even I know that could very well mean a massive savings for DL, and an massive shift of costs onto employees...
 winner. 
 
WorldTraveler said:
dawg,
plz quote OUTSIDE Of someone else's quote if you want to maintain a dialogue.
first if I had a way to do so I would. I don't know how, because unlike yourself I don't have hours upon hours to dick around on here telling people how stupid they are. You get my point. Now your just being really weak about it. 
There is no doubt that AA had a serious mgmt. problem; you got that right. but US succeeded as much as it did based on Parker's amazing ability to dazzle his labor while paying them far less than their peers.
uh. okay.... 
US simply could not support the network it has if it had to pay labor rates.
proof! 
There are plenty of people like FWAAA who has long agreed with me on that point and it is because the data is available to show it. US' int'l network was heavily dependent on low fare flow traffic and by undercutting competition.
You do know Delta flies to a lot of the same places yes? for not having the slots in NYC i don't see how AA can do much better than the PHL hub. 
They cannot do that any longer because labor costs are going up and because AA's network is large enough that DL and UA can undercut AA if they use that kind of strategy any longer.

It is far from apparent how much of AA's network is sustainable at current and future labor rates (based on CBAs) and current levels of revenue generation.

 

WRONG.
no one said that all of ANY group of people are happy.

but they aren't stupid and won't CUT their pay in order to get a union.
who said anyone has to take a pay cut?
you can click your heels all you want about how great the CBA is but the simple fact is that AA's CBAs don't come anywhere close to fully valuing the profit sharing program at DL.
how do you know that!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Jesus man. Get off the profit sharing game. QOL isn't just profit sharing. If AA's FAs are working a lot less, getting more paid time off and better QOL then it makes up for the profit sharing. gosh damn I have never seen someone make such a big deal out of such a small and almost meaningless point. 
 
If your life is based on profit sharing, not pay, time off, health care, outsourcing and work rules.......and profit sharing is what makes your bacon then you need your head checked. One extra month of pay (which is what it basically boils down too) isn't that big of a deal compared to so many other aspects of the work life. It damn sure doesn't make anyone industry leading. 
And because of that, AA employees will be underpaid relative to DL employees.  
 
 
+717

and perhaps the bigger reason is that 2 medium sized bumps in pay (one check could still be worth 3-4 weeks of additional pay) provide a bigger emotional hit than one gigantic check.

and it is possible that there are people who will benefit from pushing some of their profit sharing into 2014 instead of 2015.  

and some people may be able to put more money into their 401K with the profit sharing payout this week.

Paying out early has no financial impact for DL but it absolutely could help some employees. At the minimum it won't hurt them if their remaining check in Feb 2015 is equal to the size they got in Feb 2014.

 

sorry, Kev, but money is not a distraction to the vast majority of people who actually work for a living.
okay at this point you just have to be sh**ing me here. So here money isn't a distraction
 
 
but all we have been hearing about is how much better DL FA life is because of................MONEY. You you read your post before you hit the button or just toss as much crap against the wall hoping that something will stick? 
If they were doing it for charity, then, sure they could care less about the Money.


and what is the point of all of these ENDLESS "you have no right to participate" posts?

The simple fact is that the forum would shut down if the 2 DL rampers who support unionization were all that participated.

Kev wakes up every day PRAYING (well probably not) that WeAAsles and 700 and a cast of thousands will show up and help validate his cause, even if Kev's peers have repeatedly said they aren't interested in further unionizations - and did it where it counts - at the ballot box.
 I can wait for the day the FAs and ramp vote in a union. When it happens, not if, when it happens....I just wouldn't come back if I were you. I hope every member of this place comes back here to take shots. 
 
Kev3188 said:
I also know that doesn't happen on WCDFA. So again, what specifically did you do/say to get kicked off of there?
 
 

Maybe you could show him how. I'm willing to bet someone did the same for you.

...or maybe he just likes writing like that...



Who says they'd have to? Demanding pay regression would constitute bad faith bargaining on DL's part. Surely, you don't think they'd do that, do you?



Boom.

And there you have it, folks. For once, WT nails it. We were talking about it last week, we'll be talking about it again later this week, probably some more as the End of Summer celebrations occur, and again on 2/14. All the while being distracted from what may or may not be going on around us.
 


...And it's possible that there will be people who are harmed financially by unilateral change in insurance coverage(s)...
 Nope don't know how to do it. 
 
 
however, I do have a feeling that for me to keep picking apart WT's post-o-crap  it would take me a year to do so vs the current way I do it. 
 
FWAAA said:
I believe that the reason that dawg is placing his text inside the quotes (with bolding) is that the board software no longer accommodates chopping up quotes into several bits like it used to.    Previously, we could use the UBB Code to close the quote and respond, then open the quote again and respond.   Now, if you do that, it causes everything to go haywire.    My preference would be to use bright colors to denote the response, as the bolded text isn't that much different from the very light gray regular text.
Hows the red/bold for you guys? 
 
 
737823 said:
Believe whatever you want, after all you would know better than me what actually happened.
No, I don't know. If I did, I wouldn't be asking you to back up your allegations.

Since you refuse to do so, I have to assume you were merely casting aspersions and (again) attempting to derail the conversation.

BTW, all of the "Joshes" on there self-identify as aviation employees. None as "private wealth managers." Weird, huh? Since you claim to actively participate, you might want to check out your FB page to make sure it wasn't hacked or anything. You're welcome.
 
People on the site labeled me as a F&H plant and kept asking why I am posting there and know so much about DL and unions in the airline industry. So again answer this: if the F/As are so unhappy with DL being unorganized why can't they seek employment at another carrier that is organized? Either it was communicated to them in the interview process that DL is non-union or they came from NWA and their peers overwhelmingly voted against representation. This is what the AA agents are being told about the CWA-their peers voted overwhelmingly, pay dues/agency fee, find a new job or work in management. Amazing how you and other labor leader/activists continually go back to that point selectively when it suits your agenda.

Josh
 
People on the site labeled me as a F&H plant and kept asking why I am posting there and know so much about DL and unions in the airline industry.
Hey, if the shoe fits...

You're very good at digging up old quotes on here, so I'm sure you have screen captures of your posts (and others' reactions to them) to show us all, right?

So again answer this: if the F/As are so unhappy with DL being unorganized why can't they seek employment at another carrier that is organized?
Why quit? Why not stay and improve the place you're invested in? Do you just give up when things become difficult?
 
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