Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[Kev3188]

+1 
 
Much more to a "good" T/A than base rates alone.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Wow. The world keeps getting dimmer and dimmer for those anti union folks.

http://www.thestreet.mobi/story/12892492/1/american-flight-attendants-got-13-million-more-thanks-to-delta.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

apparently you missed the memo that DL FAs get a whole lot more than $50M in profit per year - and we really don't even know how much it will be this year but already it is on track to be $900M for this year - and perhaps $1 BILLION.

AA FAs came up short.

nice to know they are trying to chase it, though.

Iv read the TA and you have to read it as a whole . It is industry leading WT, in sick vaca rest, duty rigs on and on!! You have no idea what the top out rate for DL will be in 4 yrs, and if you do its just a guess. Top out pay for int. purser pay will be starting dec. will be 66.00 per hr.

what percentage of the FA workforce are pursers?

again, congrats for what you all accomplished but the simple fact is that DL mgmt. has long controlled the purse strings and has been able to top what other airlines pay their employees.

DL profit sharing is a huge part of the compensation package and the paltry amount the APFA settled for comes nowhere close to what DL FAs will get.
 

+1 
 
Much more to a "good" T/A than base rates alone.

too bad it doesn't include several hundred million dollars in profit sharing for AA FAs.

they thought $50M would do it.

 

[Kev3188]

too bad it doesn't include several hundred million dollars in profit sharing for AA FAs.

Too bad for whom? From this observer's perch, it seems that the rank & file thought there were more pressing issues that needed to be addressed.

I'm not an AA F/A, so I can't claim to know what those might be. You apparently either have no such qualms, or are being super assumptive.

But most of all, you elided over this:

They get to VOTE on wether or not to ratify this T/A. DL F/A's have no such rights...

 

[WorldTraveler]

what they don't get to vote on is whether they will get the $200 million in profit sharing that DL FAs will get that they thought they were including in the contract.

did you read the email?

AA and the APFA based their compensation on DL's rates as of the date of signing. DL announced the raise so AA gave it to the APFA. (you glossed over the part about who is pulling whose rates UP).

and then the APFA calculated profit sharing from DL that is attributable to the FAs which is a fraction of what DL FAs got last year and will be an even smaller percentage of what they get in total for 2014.

AA FAs will NOT be getting industry leading ANYTHING.

Perhaps at the behest of AA mgmt. who tried to convince the APFA that DL "really won't be profitable for long" that $50M will be enough.

$50M hasn't been enough to cover DL FA's part of PS for years.

 

[Kev3188]

Great. If that's a deal breaker for them, they can VOTE no on this T/A, and send Glading & co. back to the table. DL employees do not have that right.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I don't care whether the AA FAs vote yes or no.

They do need to know the facts of what is really involved.

Given how many VERY SERIOUS math calculations there have been from people trying to push their position on this site over the last two days, it is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL that they have the real facts and not the union polished presentation which glossed over major errors which the vast majority of people are simply not going to catch.

DL employees don't want the right to be paid less.

They want higher pay - which they have and will retain - and they don't care whether they get to vote to be higher paid or not.

 

[Kev3188]

I don't care whether the AA FAs vote yes or no.

Clearly you do.

 

[diamondcutter]

This is great Get the Preacher all worked up!! It's soooo easy it's fun!

 

[WorldTraveler]

It appears you (plural) are the ones finding out when the Math Teacher comes to class with a piece of chalk.

 

[southwind]

Wow. The world keeps getting dimmer and dimmer for those anti union folks.

http://www.thestreet.mobi/story/12892492/1/american-flight-attendants-got-13-million-more-thanks-to-delta.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

And people say  DL rides union coat tails.......looks like the other way around to me!

 

[southwind]

Too bad for whom? From this observer's perch, it seems that the rank & file thought there were more pressing issues that needed to be addressed.

I'm not an AA F/A, so I can't claim to know what those might be. You apparently either have no such qualms, or are being super assumptive.

But most of all, you elided over this:

They get to VOTE on wether or not to ratify this T/A. DL F/A's have no such rights...

 
But DL F/A's will have the right to decide whether or not they even want a union, is the only thing that matters............so far 0 for 2!

 

[Kev3188]

Only you would equate people having a say in their career as a whiff.

 

[Kev3188]

And people say  DL rides union coat tails.......looks like the other way around to me!

 
Of course it does.
 
For those of us that can still critically think, it looks like the pressure from the UA early out, and the T/A's at both AA & AS meant they had to act.

 

[topDawg]

No problem!
 
License premium is $2.13 (max of 2)
 
Line pay is .75/hr.
 
Shift differential is: .45 for 2nd shift & .52 for 3rd
 
No longevity pay that I'm aware of.

no longevity......
 

 
So's my dick but you don't see me bragging about it

Well there that is. O_O

 

 

Iv read the TA and you have to read it as a whole . It is industry leading WT, in sick vaca rest, duty rigs on and on!! You have no idea what the top out rate for DL will be in 4 yrs, and if you do its just a guess. Top out pay for int. purser pay will be starting dec. will be 66.00 per hr.

Pay is all the matters to WT unless that doesn't make his point. Then he will pick something else. 
 

Too bad for whom? From this observer's perch, it seems that the rank & file thought there were more pressing issues that needed to be addressed.

I'm not an AA F/A, so I can't claim to know what those might be. You apparently either have no such qualms, or are being super assumptive.

But most of all, you elided over this:

They get to VOTE on wether or not to ratify this T/A. DL F/A's have no such rights...

Exactly. they are coming out of BK and the only thing they aren't getting compared to Delta is some profit sharing. Compared to what they were looking at I would call it a big win. Rome isn't built in a day. 
 

what they don't get to vote on is whether they will get the $200 million in profit sharing that DL FAs will get that they thought they were including in the contract.
you don't know what. They could send the TA right back........ 
did you read the email?

AA and the APFA based their compensation on DL's rates as of the date of signing. DL announced the raise so AA gave it to the APFA. (you glossed over the part about who is pulling whose rates UP).

and then the APFA calculated profit sharing from DL that is attributable to the FAs which is a fraction of what DL FAs got last year and will be an even smaller percentage of what they get in total for 2014.

AA FAs will NOT be getting industry leading ANYTHING.
Have you read the TA and compared the two to Delta? can we get a detailed comparison? Trip rigs, Sick times, Vacation, per diem, etc. etc? 
Perhaps at the behest of AA mgmt. who tried to convince the APFA that DL "really won't be profitable for long" that $50M will be enough.

$50M hasn't been enough to cover DL FA's part of PS for years.

 
 

And people say  DL rides union coat tails.......looks like the other way around to me!

 
thats because you are like WT. You see what you want to see. Not anything close to the real world...... 

 
Of course it does.
 
For those of us that can still critically think, it looks like the pressure from the UA early out, and the T/A's at both AA & AS meant they had to act.

exactly. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, I have repeatedly cited total compensation and backed it up with statistics that show it.

700 and others love to show one data point and harp on how it is "industry leading" but what he doesn't like to see is data that shows how it works out in real life.


Stuff like average compensation, total profit sharing for a workgroup... that kind of stuff that a CBA can't begin to show.

I'm all about ANYONE showing what wins.. and if someone can find the one or two things that really matter and show it, I am happy to acknowledge that.

but, not even 24 hours ago we had people convinced that DL mgmt. had no clue what AA and APFA agreed to; in fact, DL's pay raise eliminated the "industry leading" claim that union leaders were trotting out here.

When you factor in the profit sharing that DL employees will get and the FAs at AA grossly underestimated, it isn't hard to see why my point was right and DL FAs are still paid above their peers at legacy carriers.

when you factor in how much people on here have touted what WN employees receive, it is all the more laughable how quickly those unionites try to distance themselves from the very profit sharing that has been a key part of making WN employees as highly paid as they are. It is impossible to separate WN employees' financial success from their profit sharing, just as it is impossible to argue that DL employee financial success isn't tied directly to profit sharing.

AA and its employees are the only ones in the industry who have decided to walk away from it and it is clear and will continue to be that the lack of profit sharing will absolutely make AA employees lower paid than their peers at profitable airlines that have it.

and the industry is seeing the best profitability ever.