Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[Kev3188]

Why aren't you advocating a boost in wages so that people wouldn't have to work OT? better yet, if there's that much on a sustained basis, why not push to actually fill the openings?

You are pro-worker, right?

 

[blue collar]

Why is it your position that people shouldn't work overtime? All the agents I know work overtime at every opportunity they get. People do what is best for themselves, and don't cover themselves up as trade unionists thinking its some noble act to refuse OT after a reduction.

Josh

Of course people you know work OT after a RIF. As they say, 'birds of a feather...'

 

[blue collar]

Why aren't you advocating a boost in wages so that people wouldn't have to work OT? better yet, if there's that much on a sustained basis, why not push to actually fill the openings?

You are pro-worker, right?

Exactly.

 

[737823]

Why aren't you advocating a boost in wages so that people wouldn't have to work OT? better yet, if there's that much on a sustained basis, why not push to actually fill the openings?

You are pro-worker, right?

Yep but by the same token why are people still harping on freedom for supporting the '08 agreement?

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

not the "same token."

At any rate, this is a DL thread. You might have better luck over on the US board...

 

[737823]

not the "same token."

At any rate, this is a DL thread. You might have better luck over on the US board...

Ok so freedom is both anti-worker AND anti-union? The district and international pushed the agreement he was only one vote, explain that.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

See above...

 

[T5towbar]

Kevin,

DL is increasing MAINLINE capacity across its system by more than 5% while reducing regional carrier capacity by 2% and has been doing it all year long.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-reports-financial-operating-performance-130500378.html

DL has also done the same thing for the past several years. Even the RJ capacity that is being added is coming with more efficient, larger aircraft that have lower CASMs.

DL is doing EXACTLY what WN is doing compared to FL's strategy which is to upgauge flights in order to increase efficiency and lower costs. the only difference is that DL is doing it between regional and mainline while WN only has the mainline component to work with. What DL and WN do share is a willingness to acquire used aircraft because of the lower capital costs involved. AA and UA are getting rid of some small RJs and replacing them with large RJS but they are acquiring all of their aircraft - RJ or mainline - as new and in AA's case, the addition of the 319 is actually downsizing many flights. Larger aircraft generally mean greater efficiency and lower CASM. You can tell me the normal staffing between a 717 and 739ER or 753 but I can assure you that DL like WN is using larger aircraft to increase efficiency and reduce costs.

but the entire system is increasing, particularly in terms of the number of mainline flights - which means more staffing.

It is not a red herring to note that SLC just had to be PROPERLY staffed for additional flights to create additional jobs for DL people.

the INCREMENTAL revenue for DL by adding one more mainline flight is far greater than the incremental costs of staffing that flight.

and Josh's point is valid... if UA has no in-house cargo personnel, DL has to staff its cargo operation based on industry standard costs. IF UA now has far lower cargo costs because of outsourcing then DL's costs get shifted form cargo to ramp personnel.

look at the big picture of what is going on at the company overall including at SLC and it will make sense.

That "2012 Side Letter" irks me to this day.....
It turned a PROFITABLE operation and reduced it into shambles. Don't tell me that cargo volume was down nationwide. Our (sCO) cargo was stable and handling a lot of tonnage for it's size and making money. Now it's operating at a loss (for two years now) with piss poor vendors running it. But that's my own opinion. It had to be "harmonized" (that's what management told us) till the side LOA was agreed to in secret was revealed. So now we have NO cargo. And it cost members jobs BEFORE and AFTER signing.
 
If it is now (SLC & MEM) handled by DGS, it still keeps the money in house, so to speak. Just cut costs.  And will these displaced employees be placed on the ramp in their home cities? That's what happened to our members, but junior members was bumped. (in my hub anyway.... It was unfortunate, but before the contract, some of our people had to move on their own dime. At least now they have a move package) But most was accommodated in their stations without a bump. Or some senior members just retired, since they couldn't hack the ramp anymore. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

I think there has been more than enough said about the decisions both ways that have been made at UA and CO that hurt the company. I am far less interested in rehashing those things than to note that UA is beginning to address them - although they are now facing a stronger AA and DL.

and, as has been noted, DL has said that there are places on the ramp in SLC for the cargo employees.

since SLC is larger based on flight operations, no one should be displaced.

 

[Kev3188]

Actually, all they've stated is that there are "positions in ACS" (in SLC) for them.
 
What's not being said is far more interesting to me...

 

[topDawg]

Exactly. All the more so if the place is already correctly staffed or a bit "fat."

All the more reason why I agree with you that farming out SLC AF is a dick move...

 agreed. 
 

since there is really only one hub - ATL where a couple percent increase in flights can really mean a double digit increase in the number of flights - then you can either only be happy when DL pulls another slot swap type transaction that doubled DL's size at LGA, grow in ATL, or accept that a few percent spread across the system is a good thing.

I screwed up. I knew as soon as I posted it you would grab the % thing and run with it. Thats my fault. 
 
Flights are a better judge of staffing needs in this case. 8 flights isn't enough for all the people in cargo, and that is assuming that somehow Delta gets 100% out of the ramp in the current staffing at SLC (which they don't) 
 

but again, DL isn't growing just a few percent in SLC. growth this month, year over year, is 8%, above DL's average growth in ASMs of 5%.

I'm not knocking growth. Good it grew 8 flights, what I'm saying is for a station like SLC that doesn't mean jack for staffing. 2-3 maybe 4 extra people. (hell I'll even say 10 extra people) 30ish? no chance. 

 

it's also worth noting that WN is CUTTING the number of flights by using larger aircraft (are they adding any more staff as they switch to larger aircraft?) while AA and UA are not switching regional flying to mainline near as fast as DL is.

I don't see the point....at all. 
 
Oh, look at what THEY are doing, don't worry about Delta, look at that airline! 
 

You may think that an 8% change in flight activity isn't enough to justify a staffing change - plus or minus - but I can assure you that I know DL well enough that they would not carry a surplus of personnel for an 8% overage on a sustained basis while an 8% increase would indeed result in increased staffing as long as DL intends to maintain that level of activity.

hahahaha this shows you know little about Delta. They run fat all the time. 
 
They are getting better about it though, they are running less fat with Delta people and more fat with DGS/vendors. Ask the guys in the MRO bays about that. 
 

since DL has said that the impacted cargo employees in SLC to be accommodated on the ramp in SLC, the 8% growth is enough to absorb the SLC cargo people.

How do you know that? You think that 8 flights is work for 30 people (give or take)? 
 

again, it is no surprise that MEM cargo is being dismantled given that MEM has less cargo capacity than a lot of other stations.

I am not surprised, still a dick move. 
 

and, once again, you can thank UA for dismantling the idea of its own personnel working in cargo in a trend that DL can't ignore.

 
Uh. no. Doesn't work that way. Remember Delta is the "employee" airline. Your not putting this on UA buddy. Its 100% on Delta. 

 

[737823]

Dawg the UA IAM agreement is now the industry standard and unions at other carriers and DL need to remain competitive. The CWA is concerned about that agreement and it's difficult to bargain against.

Josh

 

[Airlinelifer]

Absent my presence and involvement there is already enough in play-the UA agreement, IAM-TWU alliance,
industry wide push towards outsourcing, push for contracts at WN to "reflect the current reality", not to mention right to work laws and Republican majority regaining control. It's fun to stand by and watch.

Josh

Absent my presence and involvement there is already enough in play-the UA agreement, IAM-TWU alliance,
industry wide push towards outsourcing, push for contracts at WN to "reflect the current reality", not to mention right to work laws and Republican majority regaining control. It's fun to stand by and watch.

Josh

"reflect the current reality", "industry wide push", that's so......7.5,.....so BK
Those jobs are pretty much lost forever, and you guys seem like its no big deal. Since it doesn't affect you personally, you have no skin in the game, you can just point at the other carriers and say, "well their doing it too." But those other carriers are not raking in one point something billion dollars a quarter.

 

[737823]

"reflect the current reality", that's so......7.5

That's so Gary Kelly:

"Not only has the world changed, but our relative position within the industry on costs has changed," says Mr. Kelly, a 59-year-old Texan and former accountant who joined the company 28 years ago. "Now we just need to make sure our labor contracts are updated to reflect the current reality."

L7.5 was what 20 years ago? Hardly relevant today and you are PM-NW it was of no consequence to you.


Josh

 

[Airlinelifer]

That's so Gary Kelly:


L7.5 was what 20 years ago? Hardly relevant today and you are PM-NW it was of no consequence to you.


Josh

And BK was 8 years ago, and DL is making record profits and STILL cutting employees. Like I said, you have no skin in the game and you still parrot the company line, the company you don't work for.