Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[700UW]

It went to arbitration, the IAM didnt agree to any seniority integration.

Learn to read the Kasher Decision.

 

[topDawg]

dawg,
you seem to think that pissing on the labor-mgmt. relationship is a one way street in which only the company has a responsibility.

in this it is. Going into this with the mind set of showing the FAs who is boss is a fantastic way to have prolonged negotiations, terrible relations and piss poor productivity going forward. A smart company would shoot for the very good relationship Delta has with its pilots, not trying to be like United and American.   
 

My question was about the legality of what DL can change during the voting process.

I believe they can give as long as it is to all. I do not believe they can take however. 
 
but no, AFAIK Delta cant go out and give the FA group a 40% raise. 
 
 
but again, a moot point. Pissing off employees right before a union vote is not wise. They have a play book, and will use it. 
 

DL has shown before that they are willing to preference those who are pursuing unions vs. those that want to remain with DL's traditional system.

No they haven't. I mean maybe when you and Leos band of fools were running around the GO (also the worst time for employee/management relations) but now days Delta isn't like that. Again, the current unions on property have a very good relationship with Delta. Its foolish......down right stupid to hope or think Delta wouldn't work toward that for any other work group that unionizes. Delta has an advantage with its employees. Its probably the last airline that isn't just a job. Stupid to change that just because you are butt hurt that the FAs voted in a union. 
 
those stupid ego trips, on BOTH sides, is why airline labor is such a **** show now days. (but again, for someone who it has not effect on you can push for these ego trips.) 
 

I still think it is possible that DL will offer goods to DL's non-union workgroups who are not pursuing unions and leave the rest behind.

That wont happen. Its has happened before. It wont happen now. 
 
Leo is gone buddy, New Delta isn't trying to piss on employees like you guys did. 
 

It is not about pissing anyone off. It is about realizing that DL offers compensation packages above average because there are DL workgroups who choose to play by DL's game.

Showing them who is the big man! You tell those fools......we should just outsource them all now! Bastards! 
 
jeesh, the butt hurt from you is so amazingly sad....
 

DL has no incentive to throw that kind of money to workgroups that want to act just like the rest of the industry

yeah i mean......other than to keep labor peace. 
There is a reason why Delta is targeting another early contract with the pilots. 

The pilots are unionized but still play very differently.

and why can't the FAs have the same kind of relationship? what you are proposing is a butt hurt ego trip and not what is smart for the airline, pax, employees and investors.
but I wouldn't expect labor logic from someone who use to work with Leo. you guys were all about ego trips.   
  
 

Nothing wrong wth DL innovating a 5 year contract for all current and new employees.

Yes there is. See josh this is how we KNOW you are talking out of your ass. You know nothing about Delta and its people and you are computer shot gunning amazingly stupid ideas. As an investor in Delta, not even an employee, but an investor.....I think that if someone at Delta pitched this idea they should be fired on the spot.
 

Turnover would be good for everyone including the union who could line their pockets with initiation fees. So long as clear expectations are set going in nothing wrong with this approach.

Easy to say from someone who clearly knows little to nothing about how airlines work.

 

[topDawg]

 

So i did digging around due to my curious nature and hearing so many disastrous things about the IAM and TWA I did my research and here are my links, IAM didnt cause Twa to fail there was many reasons in management the company did fail, American airlines didnt merge they aqcuired the employees at twa would have lost there jobs regardless it isnt fair there seniority upheld but that was APFA who didnt want to meet with them and agree to it. here are links proving it please research this.
 
link 1- http://www.businessinsider.com/marc-andreessen-carl-icahn-k…
 
link 2- http://www.businessinsider.com/marc-andreessen-carl-icahn-k…
 
link 3- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_World_Airlines#2000s
 
link 4- http://blog.pmarca.com/…/when-carl-icahn-ran-a-company-the…/
 
link 5- http://www.businessinsider.com/questions-about-the-american…
 
and here is the twatravesty " " the side where i am is "negligent" i guess you can say, but there track record with other companies is impeccable and they did what the could and tried to assist with the transition at the interest of the employee.

 

 the APA/APFA/TWU and the government are the ones who screwed the TWA employees. The IAM(ALPA/AFA also) couldn't have done anything for them. 
 

700 is like a used car salesman for the IAM!

Josh

 I wouldn't talk if I were you. You are someone we look to to know what you are talking about. 
 

The IAM screwed over the TWA workers no question about that. Rather than fight for their jobs and seniority they wanted the money from secured loans on TWs assets. AA should have never purchased TWA but as bad as TWA is USAIR is worse. At least with TWA their management largely went away, their trashy planes and most significantly the IAM walked away. This tome around all three are staying.

Josh

 False. Try not to be like WT. Learn something without bias. Its nice to have facts and be right and not look like an idiot....
 

It went to arbitration, the IAM didnt agree to any seniority integration.
Learn to read the Kasher Decision.

this. 

 

[700UW]

There are NO initiation fees being charged to the DL FAs if they win representation, the IAM NEVER charges initiation fees for a newly organized group nor do they pay dues till the CBA goes into effect.

Keep up the lies joshie the fraud.

 

[737823]

There are NO initiation fees being charged to the DL FAs if they win representation, the IAM NEVER charges initiation fees for a newly organized group nor do they pay dues till the CBA goes into effect.
Keep up the lies joshie the fraud.

I said initiation fees if DL later hires people once the IAM is already certified and a CBA is in place.

Josh

 

[700UW]

And EVERY union does that, duh!
 
So tell the board who you really work for and what your agenda is and how they pay you to be here.

 

[737823]

Dawg,
The training expenses are minimal if it provides DL long term cost savings, a younger and more flexible workforce and other benefits like the ability to have more productivity and generally fewer illnesses which come with a younger workforce.

Maybe DL could also have a designated management F/A on each and every flight who isn't a union member that can supervise and discipline on the spot. Foreign carriers, including unionized ones like BA, LH and LX have this.

No problem for the largely PMDL crews I fly with international from BOS/JFK but many of the bitter disgruntled PMNW who don't follow the service guidelines and spend most of the flight on the jumpseat would get a nice awakening!

Josh

 

[737823]

And EVERY union does that, duh!
 
So tell the board who you really work for and what your agenda is and how they pay you to be here.

Not paid to post here. Sitting outside enjoy a beautiful day.

Josh

 

[700UW]

And you claim you are not anti-worker.
 
And they couldnt discipline on a flight without a shop steward or grievance rep on board also. (Weingarter Rights).
 
And there is no way financially nor logistically can that be done on a US carrier with thousands of flights a day.

Do you actually ever think before you post?

 

[700UW]

Not paid to post here. Sitting outside enjoy a beautiful day.

Josh

BS and answer the rest.
 
You are not who you claim you are and the board sees through this, you post lies and misinformation and when proven wrong you cant even man up and admit it, and you keep running with your false facts.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Leo wasn't in charge when DL and NW merged and DL gave raises to PMDL people but told PMNW people to wait for the outcome of the elections.

DL will open its wallet and that is what the FAs are after. The RR and Rx announcements will be followed by others.

The FAs particularly are very good at getting what they want without a union.

I have yet to have an actual DL FA accept my bet for their first year's dues that the IAM will be sent packing.

I'll make the bet with Kev or dawg as a stand-in if no FAs accept my offer by 10 days before the end of voting.

 

[737823]

And you claim you are not anti-worker.
 
And they couldnt discipline on a flight without a shop steward or grievance rep on board also. (Weingarter Rights).
 
And there is no way financially nor logistically can that be done on a US carrier with thousands of flights a day.

Do you actually ever think before you post?

Sure could, DL could insisnt it is part of the CBA and not reach a T/A without it. Require at least one F/A on each and every flight to be part of the management F/A force, so on domestic 738 flights have one manager and three union F/As. International longhaul one manager and considerably more union F/As it can be done.

BA does it on their vast network of short haul European and UK services and they are union. It would be innovative and go a long way to provide good consistent service.

Josh

 

[700UW]

DL an insist?
 
Ever hear of the word no?
 
Scope language would never be agreed to let management perform covered work.
 
And do you not understand the law?
If a union member is going to be called in to be disciplined by law they have the right to have union representation.
 
And DL cant tell the union who can be a union rep or not.
 
Give it a rest, no company is going to do that in the US, its not financially responsible.
 
Talk about pissing off workers, you are truly clueless.

So tell the Gerry to come up with new ideas, you arent earning your F&H paycheck.
 
Discipline is confidential and private  under the law, so where would this take place?
 
You are truly clueless.

 

[737823]

Having management present in the aircraft remarkably changes the attitude and behavior of the crew. I've been on AA flights with HDQ people in the cabin and the service is flawless. Return flight with same crew corners were cut, F/As sitting in unoccupied F seats while on duty, eating pax meals, you know all the usual behavior on AA longhaul flights.

Josh

 

[737823]

DL an insist?
 
Ever hear of the word no?
 
Scope language would never be agreed to let management perform covered work.
 
And do you not understand the law?
If a union member is going to be called in to be disciplined by law they have the right to have union representation.
 
And DL cant tell the union who can be a union rep or not.
 
Give it a rest, no company is going to do that in the US, its not financially responsible.
 
Talk about pissing off workers, you are truly clueless.
So tell the Gerry to come up with new ideas, you arent earning your F&H paycheck.
 
Discipline is confidential and private  under the law, so where would this take place?
 
You are truly clueless.

My point is having someone from management present at all times will moderate and change their behavior. It works on the European carriers, ANA, JAL, Cathay, Singapore all have this and they are all unionized. The gulf carriers often have multiple managers onboard (no unions).

Josh