Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[WorldTraveler]

perhaps Richard will provide a little more detail in the future. But he has now said what I have been saying for quite some time.

and while 700 is quick to tell us what the IAM can do, he has yet to tell us why the APA got higher pay raises for AA's pilots than the APFA got, even though he is quick to tell us that DL gave the unionized pilots a larger raise than non-contract personnel.

He also hasn't shown us comparative statistics for executive compensation at DL's competitors even though he has consistently pushed the notion that a union has any influence over executive compensation.

let's be honest, folks. 700 and the Machinists union will say anything and play on any emotion to try to get votes even though the IAM hasn't and can't demonstrate that it makes a hill of a beans worth of difference on the vast majority of things they say anything about - and even where they do make a difference, DL's direct relationship has been more beneficial to DL employees.

and given that track record in favor of DL employees while would any rational DL employee risk that a change in the direct relationship could cost them when the evidence is overwhelming that the IAM hasn't been able to prove that it can do a better job than what DL employees, esp. FAs have?

 

[700UW]

So DL's Pilots and Dispatchers are irrational?

 

[Kev3188]

 

let's be honest, folks. 700 and the Machinists union will say anything and play on any emotion to try to get votes...

Yes, let's be honest; anyone who thinks the company isn't playing on emotion to garner votes is either horribly naive, or not paying attention.

 

[700UW]

 

Yes, let's be honest; anyone who thinks the company isn't playing on emotion to garner votes is either horribly naive, or not paying attention.

Better yet, let's be honest and say WT is playing on emotions and he has no dog in the fight and is preaching to the ONE DL FA that comes on here.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no one said that but you did say that DALPA was able to negotiate higher pay raises than what DL gave non-contract employees but yet you can't explain how APA did the same thing for AA's pilots relative to AA's unionized FAs?

and you also can't show that the IAM or any other union has had any success or influence on reducing executive compensation at more heavily unionized airlines.

you made both of those charges in support of unionization at DL but you can't back them up.

Why not?

and why are we not surprised that you and the IAM have made one claim after another of what you can do but can't back it with any kind of facts? and in reality, the facts that do exist argue that your claim is completely incorrect.

and Kev,
if you can find errors in what the company says, then post them.

no one says they or the IAM can't use emotions. but when you or they make emotionally based claims that are completely unfounded by facts or are OPPOSITE of facts, then it is, as 700 says, a lie.

 

[700UW]

How did the APFA get 7% higher wages than DL?
 

 
http://ouramerican.o...1D7LgY.facebook
 
September 24, 2014
Today in Washington, D.C., the APFA Executive Committee voted unanimously, and the entire APFA Board of Directors supported its decision, to submit the Tentative Agreement (T/A) to the full APFA membership for a ratification vote. In the coming days, APFA will be distributing extensive information about the T/A and posting full and final language online. The Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) and members of APFA leadership will also begin a tour of each of the bases, conducting road shows (see attached schedule) for Flight Attendants to hear the details of the T/A firsthand and ask questions about it. In the meantime, some of the highlights of our industry-leading T/A, brought to you by the dedicated Flight Attendants and professionals of the JNC, are provided below:

• Industry leading total economic value combined with the best work rules in the industry. 
• $193 million over the combined value of our current contracts. 

COMPENSATION

• On December 1, 2014, top of pay scale increases to an industry-leading $53.52/hour (see attached pay chart).
  Current top of scale at LAA of $49.05/hour and LUS of $47.62/hour.
• Top of scale pay increases by 9.1% for LAA Flight Attendants and 12.4% for LUS Flight Attendants.

[*]By the end of the T/A term, International top of pay scale is $62.25/hr with IPD Override* and $58.50/hr Domestic.
[*]Immediate wage increases across the board at date of signing (DOS) (December 1, 2014).
[*]2% raise for all Flight Attendants in years two, three, and four and a 3% raise for all Flight Attendants in the final year of the T/A.
[*]With a new, shortened pay scale from 15 to 13 years, Flight Attendants will reach industry-leading top of pay scale two years faster.
[*]Per Diem increases throughout the term of the contract.
[*]Lead/Purser pay on Domestic and International is increased or maintained including:

• Wide-body Domestic Lead pay is $3.25 per hour.
• Three-class Domestic Transcon A321T Purser pay is $4.75 per hour.
• Wide-body International Lead/Purser pay of $6.50/$7.50 per hour.
• Narrow-body Lead pay (new at LAA) of $1.25 to $3.75.

[*]*International Premium Destination (IPD) (Europe, deep South America, and Asia):

• Override Pay $3.75 per hour.
• Sign-in 1:15 before departure.

[*]Non-IPD

• Override Pay $3.00 per hour.
• Sign-in 1:00 before departure.

[*]Holiday pay is $75 if trip touches Thanksgiving, Christmas, or New Year’s Day.
[*]Training pay is $75 per day, including Recurrent Training.
[*]Deadhead 100% pay and credit including all premiums (i.e. Speaker, Purser, Override, etc.).
 
SCOPE/LABOR PROTECTIVE PROVISIONS (LPP)

• Retains LUS Scope and LPP, and extends to LAA.
  Protects jobs, preserves pay, and otherwise shields Flight Attendants from any adverse impact of a merger or other transaction.

VACATION

• Top vacation accrual of 35 days per year.
• For LAA:
  PBS daily Vacation rate increases from 3 hours to 3.5 / 4 hours.
• With PBS, up to nine Vacation splits.

[*]Includes ability to fly while on vacation.
 
SICK

• For LUS, Sick Leave accrual maintained.
• For LAA, Sick Leave accrual will incrementally increase from 3 hours per month to 4.5 hours per month over the term of the contract.

 
IOD

• Six months salary continuance regardless of nature of injury; longer for certain types of aircraft accidents.

 
MEDICAL PLANS

• For LAA, maintains current AA Medical Plans.
• For LUS, continues current US Airways Medical Plans through 2015:
  Beginning in 2016, move to current AA plans.
• Within 45 days of DOS, LUS Flight Attendants receive $3,000 transition stipend for move to AA plans.

 
401(k)/DEFINED CONTRIBUTION PLAN

• For LUS, maintains 3% company contribution and establishes a company match up to 2.5% on DOS.
• For LAA, maintains current schedule of company contributions and company match.

 
SCHEDULING

• Improves LAA Pay Protection to LUS language.
• Improves or maintains Rescheduling language.
• ETB / HIBOARD transactions processed up to one hour prior to departure.
• Allows all Flight Attendants to access Open Time until 2 hours before departure.
• Retains LAA satellite base language.
• Improves or maintains Layover Rest.
  LUS improves to LAA language of minimum eight hours behind the door.

[*]Improves or maintains Critical Coverage (LAA)/Red Flag (LUS):

• 150% pay and 100% credit.

[*]Improves or maintains On Duty Rig.

• LUS improves to LAA language of 1:2.

 
RESERVE

• Modifies Reserve Rotation
  First 12 months after initial training will be straight Reserve.
• After one full year of service: one on / one off for a period of three years.
• After four years of service: one on / three off.

[*]On call period, per day, reduced from 24 hours to 12 hours.
[*]Improves or maintains days off to 12 per month.
[*]Improves or maintains ability to pick up time above guarantee up to 12 days.
[*]Two-hour call out; three-hour co-terminal call out.
[*]Improves or maintains 12 hour minimum Home Base Rest (HBR).
 
HOTELS

• Maintains current practice of LAA hotel layovers.

 
CREW REST

• Crew rest on all flights scheduled 7:00 hrs. +.

NO FENCE

• Upon full operational integration, Flight Attendants can transfer to any base in the system (subject to availability).

 
Per the APFA Constitution, after voting unanimously to accept the T/A, the Joint Negotiating Committee made a thorough presentation to the APFA Executive Committee and the Board of Directors.  Per the APFA Constitution, the Executive Committee voted to submit the T/A to the membership for a ratification vote.
 
In addition, the Board of Directors, consisting of the Base Presidents from each base in the system (LAA and LUS), unanimously passed a resolution endorsing the EC’s decision to send the T/A out for ratification.
 
The T/A will not become a contract unless and until the membership ratifies it. There will be a 30-day balloting period during which all APFA members in good standing (no more than 60 days in dues arrears) will be eligible to vote. Ballots and instructions will be mailed to Flight Attendants’ home addresses.
 
Should the T/A fail a ratification vote, the economic terms of our contract (wages, premiums, sick, vacation, medical and 401(k)) will be decided in final and binding arbitration. As the Negotiations Protocol Agreement states, the arbitration panel will be required to establish a contract that is at least equal in value to the current LUS and LAA CBAs – “the floor” – and is market-based in the aggregate (defined by United, Continental, and Delta) – “the ceiling.” To reach the ceiling, the current combined costs of the LAA and LUS contracts would have to be increased by $111 million. The total value of the T/A is $193 million. The difference - $82 million – is the negotiated premium above what could be achieved in arbitration.
 
Achieving this industry-leading T/A required a tremendous amount of hard work. Flight Attendants should be proud of the tenacious efforts of our Joint Negotiating Committee. Stay tuned for more information on the T/A and be sure to attend one of the road shows at your base!
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

and again, you exclude profit sharing because AA doesn't have it.

AA's contract isn't industry leading at all

When you factor in over 16.5% in profit sharing for DL employees, the claim of industry -leading is pure fraud.

and even without DL's profit sharing, it is a lie unless you exclude a number of other airlines.

in fact, the APFA defined the industry of including about 2 airlines - AA plus one other carrier that is below them - in order to come up with the statement of industry leading.

It isn't true about DL, WN, AS .... how many airlines have to be listed to prove that the APFA's statement about is nothing but another union lie.

 

[700UW]

Fraud?

The only fraud is you, work rules, better benefits, vacation etc... all are costs.
 
And you have been asked to the value of DL FAs compensation and what little work rules they have, and for a month you have failed to answer.
 
The Total Value is more than what a DL FA earns.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you can't value those items either but you have no problem calling the APFA contract industry leading when it isn't even based on the purely monetary items - including profit sharing which you repeatedly pretend doesn't exist.

and you still have yet to answer the question about why AA pilot got more and the influence of a union in influencing executive compensation.

DL people are voting on the accuracy of what you say... right now you can't back up a thing.

 

[700UW]

I dont have to value them, the APFA did it already.
 
And their actuaries have stated that an AA FA gets more in total compensation, benefits, work rules, vacation, etc... than a DL FA.

 

[WorldTraveler]

then you should be able to provide the evidence - or retract the statement.

and they also didn't know how much profit sharing DL employees would make because it wasn't known at the time.

DL's 16.5% plus EXCEEDED all estimates here and by the APFA.

can you kindly provide evidence to support your pilot and executive compensation statement? you made those statements and should be able to back them up.

 

[700UW]

Are you that dense?
 
I posted the increase in executive compensation, no more, no less,and you go off on one of your lie and misinformation filled tirade once again.
 
And I posted how DALPA got the pilots a 20% raise from June of 2012 till the end of 2014, while ACS and FAs got 3% or 4% per year depending on when they were hired.
 
Those are facts, something you never seem to be able to comprehend.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you are claiming or at the least inferring that executive compensation and non-union status are correlated.

if they are not, then you are engaging in fraud and the topic has no place in IAM's campaign to unionize DL FAs.

and you have repeatedly said that DL pilots got more because they were unionized. You cannot lie your way out of that now.

AA pilots got far larger than AA FAs despite both being unionized.

your statement is a lie.

the market, not a union, sets the rates of compensation for workgroups and a union can't do anything the market will not allow.

You and the IAM lied and have made all kinds of similar claims which you and the IAM cannot back up.

 

[700UW]

You really need to seek help.
 
I posted information on the rise of executive compensation at DL, nothing more, nothing less, if you cant grasp that, then you are beyond help.
 
So now your saying the marketplace sets the rates, not the unions, so how come DALPA got a 20% raise and other carriers didnt, union or non-union?
 
You keep digging yourself a hole so deep you should be hitting China soon.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you have repeatedly posted that DL pilots benefitted from being unionized and that DL non-contract employees did not get what the pilots did because they were unionized.

at the minimum, you INFERRED that unions had any influence on executive compensation.

you said that APFA delivered an industry leading contract but cannot provide evidence of that claim against either DL or several other airlines.

You have made one claim after another which you cannot back up.

DL FAs and employees who think a union can make a difference need to be very wary of that repeated inability to prove what is claimed.