Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[townpete]

 
 
More promises.....drink!

 

[700UW]

Compare a commuter to a commuter, not a mainline and go look up the old express jet IAM CBA and you will see how well they had it with a CBA negotiated for them by them as IAM members.

 

[topDawg]

DOT data hasn't been released for average compensation.

you can compare scales if you want, but ALL of it has to include 16.5% increase in profit sharing which the Machinists union refuses to want to acknowledge.

It is precisely when you include that profit sharing number that DL's rate of compensation increases is far larger than what ANY US airline has paid its people but it puts DL's total compensation above nearly every other US airline.

It is the IAM and union supporters that have the obligation to value all of these supposed QOL and workrule changes that the IAM can get (cough, cough like after 7 years of trying to negotiate a contract at ExpressJet) and show how much they benefit ALL DL employees.

and they can't and they won't. because even the supposed extra vacation pay disproportionately benefits AA's topped out FAs. newsflash: DL has been actually growing its FA corps which is what an airline can do when they bring work home to DL from regional carriers.

AA's traffic report showed that regional carrier capacity grew by 8.6% while mainline capacity was flat. Latin capacity was down 5% while TATL capacity was down 9%.

all of that great extra vacation won't do a hill of beans worth of good to AA FAs at the bottom of the seniority list given that AA has taken a strategy of shrinking their network and the APFA contract does NOTHING to stop AA from transferring a bunch of flying to regional carriers.

Where is the work rules comparison? 
 

It's DALPA not the IAM... Not even close. That's why!

We have no idea what kind of relationship the IAM would have with Delta. It is all in the local. 
 

no one is stopping anyone from voting

we are just trying to make sure that FAs know the facts.

It is the IAM, not DL and not this forum, that tells people they can be kicked out for voicing a dissenting opinion.

Communism looked tame compared to the constitution of the IAM.

So please, for once, post some facts. AA/DL FA comparisons.  
 

Its like these pro IAM people live in some airy fairy alternate vision of a Utopia (that never existed).  

So you can't just answer the question? How is that a lie......?
 

be sure to hit on the amount of dues that are sent to IAM national and over which DL FAs would have absolutely no control or return on investment.

How do you figure that at all? 
 

IAM is courting heavily the baby widgets promising them a bed of wine and roses's. Knowing that they will be the first ones thrown under the bus. Just ask a junior FA how they would like to sit reserve for months. 
 
They be like...
 
 

Two things. 
1) management hasn't ever tossed a non-union employee under the bus? lol. 
2) More empty threats. A day system isn't going anywhere. You'd never get the votes for it on the union side, and Delta would never agree to it. Delta doesn't do it for the FAs. Its a huge, huge cost saving because it requires lower staffing levels. 
 

 
Bottom line, after 7 years, with a small airline, they screwed over the FA's. And now they expect to be taken seriously?
 
Seriously?

Seriously? Management has never screwed over anyone before?
 

Another IAM disaster
 
The next time the union tells you that you can’t lose during union negotiations, you might want to ask them about what happened to the employees of Vought Aircraft Industries.
And, the next time the union tells you that you can try it out, and just get rid of the union if you don’t like it, you definitely might want to ask them about what happened at Vought.
In 2007, employees at Vought Aircraft Industries here in North Charleston voted for representation by the IAM.
The union had made lots of promises about better pay and benefits. After the election, the employees waited. And waited. And waited.
After almost a year, the IAM had still not delivered a contract with all of the things that had been promised.
What happened next?
 
http://weareboeingsc.com/vought-aircraft-industries/

So now we are going outside the industry? I don't think you want to go down that road. I know people at AT&T (under the CWA) who find our work rules, pension (they have a 401K match AND a DB plan), and health care a f#%king joke compared to their contract. 

 

[topDawg]

 
So IAM treats their membership differently based on size of airline?
 
If you are big airline, they sky is the limit.
 
If you are small, well sucks to be you i guess.
 
Good to know.

New to this industry eh? 
 
DALPA has it better the the 9E pilots. You know why don't you? (hint, they can't outsource your job if you make the same, thank the companies for whipsawing all the regionals.)  

 

[southwind]

So, since your apparently a union sympathizer, Topdawg, why aren't you pushing one at TechOps?

 

[700UW]

He has posted his reasons, over and over.
 
Can you not read and comprehend?

 

[southwind]

 

So you aren't going to add anything except the same trite talking points that keep getting recycled both here & at work.
Awesome.

 
Fixed!
So you aren't going to add anything except the same trite talking points that keep getting recycled by the IAM, both here & at work.

Awesome.


 

But the pilots got a 20% raise from June 29, 2012 till the end of 2014, for giving up 33% in the Profit Sharing.
 
ACS and FA got a 3% or 4% raise and Delta took 33% of their profit sharing for 2013 when they cut it from 15% to 10% payout, the only reason they got 15%(16.5%)this year is DL topped $1 billion in profits.

Get your pilot's license.

 

[topDawg]

So, since your apparently a union sympathizer, Topdawg, why aren't you pushing one at TechOps?

Cause I am not a union sympathizer. Unlike most people on this board I don't feel the need to push one side or the other. I am made to look like a union sympathizer because WT is great at posting complete and total BS. One one needs to correct that. 
 
All I want to see is facts. People like Baba and Kev can do what they want to with them. But to say JUST the unions or JUST the company have pucked over employees is wrong. Both sides have sucked in the past. 
 
 
Having said that, I don't want a union at TechOps because I believe that, today, a union wouldn't make much better nor have the same goals in mind that I do. I would love to see the company grow into something comparable to LHT or AF/KL engineering. I am not sure any union could offer that except something in-house.
 
5 years from now when half the engine shop is gone I might change my opinion.   

He has posted his reasons, over and over.
 
Can you not read and comprehend?

I will never understand why people think I am pro-union. No I don't suck company d**k. Change needs to happen at Delta, IMHO, but that doesn't mean a union is the right course of action. Matter of fact if we could just get guys like Southwind to be able to admit that Delta doesn't do everything great it would be a big step forward for TechOps. IMO.  

 

[topDawg]

  
Fixed!
So you aren't going to add anything except the same trite talking points that keep getting recycled by the IAM, both here & at work.

Awesome.


 
Get your pilot's license.

That sounds logical. 
 
smh never hard to figure out why the A&P craft constantly takes a step forward and two back..... 

 

[metopower]

But the pilots got a 20% raise from June 29, 2012 till the end of 2014, for giving up 33% in the Profit Sharing.
 
ACS and FA got a 3% or 4% raise and Delta took 33% of their profit sharing for 2013 when they cut it from 15% to 10% payout, the only reason they got 15%(16.5%)this year is DL topped $1 billion in profits.

But the pilots got a 20% raise from June 29, 2012 till the end of 2014, for giving up 33% in the Profit Sharing.
 
ACS and FA got a 3% or 4% raise and Delta took 33% of their profit sharing for 2013 when they cut it from 15% to 10% payout, the only reason they got 15%(16.5%)this year is DL topped $1 billion in profits.

B.S. Don't compare apples to oranges ...something you are always trying to do. Compare my raise or compensation to my job classification not some other. Or better yet throw Russell Wilson's raises into the mix next time ..I'd like his pay raise.

 

[townpete]

  
Fixed!
So you aren't going to add anything except the same trite talking points that keep getting recycled by the IAM, both here & at work.

Awesome.


 
Get your pilot's license.

 
 
Yeah no joke, the constant pilots comparison is a tired tactic. Even in highly unionized airlines do the FA's get anywhere close to what the pilots get?
 
NOPE
 
Never have
 
Never will
 
If you want to get what the pilots get, then put the time and education in and get your f*&king license.

 

[700UW]

Meto
 
You arent getting the gist.
 
You had a vote on what happened to your CBA, they didnt, that is the point I am trying to make, you get what you negotiate, not what they want to give you.

 

[WorldTraveler]

pete, first let me say  welcome to the airline forums.   
 
commutair is a regional small airline    if you wish  go look at the current PMUS IAM Fleet and MTR contracts    to give a better insight in what the IAM has accomplished in Sect 6 talks with US    Should the FAs elect in the IAM as the official union to represent DL FAs  given DL track record of profits I would not be surprised to see a good contract    
 
Now someone will post $h!t about the PS    which is a nice added benefit but in reality the PS is traditionally a 1 time pay out       DL pilots made out a helluva lot better with PS bec of the contract...   The rest   not as well as the flight deck crews.

except DL PS has not been a one-time payout, robbed. It has gone on at DL for at least five years and the total is now well over $3 billion. that is not chump change.

and I also learned that WN profit sharing is not paid out directly in cash but in restricted retirement accounts... I'd like for a confirmation if that is true.

and again the reason why US ramp has seen such big pay raises is because US paid its people so far below industry average for so long that Parker was forced to raise pay dramatically in order to get the merger approved by labor.

now he has to pay the bills.

what IAM accomplished at US is NOT representative of what DL people can expect at all.

 

[topDawg]

except DL PS has not been a one-time payout, robbed. It has gone on at DL for at least five years and the total is now well over $3 billion. that is not chump change.

and I also learned that WN profit sharing is not paid out directly in cash but in restricted retirement accounts... I'd like for a confirmation if that is true.

and again the reason why US ramp has seen such big pay raises is because US paid its people so far below industry average for so long that Parker was forced to raise pay dramatically in order to get the merger approved by labor.

now he has to pay the bills.

what IAM accomplished at US is NOT representative of what DL people can expect at all.

two things. 
1) you can see into the future? Again, Delta might not get big raises but if they take the US scope word for word its a GREAT deal. (but again, thats lost on you because as long as you get yours scope is stupid) 
2) FA comparisons.......still waiting......
 

 
 
 
Yeah no joke, the constant pilots comparison is a tired tactic. Even in highly unionized airlines do the FA's get anywhere close to what the pilots get?
 
NOPE
 
Never have
 
Never will
 
If you want to get what the pilots get, then put the time and education in and get your f*&king license.
 

Two things. 
1) while pilots should be paid more because of their education the %s shouldn't be so far out of whack. If I give 5% to get 10% why should a pilot give 5% to get 30%? 
2) Some FAs are educated. It might be a skill but its pretty hard to get hired off the street as a Delta FA without something. Even if you worked RJs, without a degree its hard. 
 
 

B.S. Don't compare apples to oranges ...something you are always trying to do. Compare my raise or compensation to my job classification not some other. Or better yet throw Russell Wilson's raises into the mix next time ..I'd like his pay raise.

I don't think so. 
because you are a pilot doesn't mean they get to cut your PS and give you 33% but cut mine and give me 5%. 
And it really doesn't float when the company did it to everyone, except your group. 
 
Delta and DALPA constantly scream don't compare us to anything but pilots..........
 
but ramp, Above wing, FAs, mechanics your all comparable. 

 

[Kev3188]

Tons of degrees throughout 120 as well...