Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[BABABOOY]

Bigger question is how many are legit ?
I'm sure that's why the NMB is taking longer this
Time around. Shady

 

[topDawg]

Yikes. Okay WT is going back to "Let me put my hands over my ears and repeat things. 

sadly, dawg is as stuck in yesteryear regarding the way the MRO business is run as he is about what DL did to reorganize in the past at the cost of its employees.

I'm not "stuck" anywhere. You said carriers don't send million of bucks to other carriers to do work for them. You are so completely wrong it isn't funny. If it wasn't for other carriers Delta and every other MRO would have no work.
 

the only example of airline vs. airline relationships that makes any sense is AA vs. DL for the PW2000s.

Not even remotely close to being true. FOR JUST US AIRLINES
Delta sending its Trents to TAESL makes sense
United sending its RB211 to TAESL makes sense
US airways sending its RB211s to TAESEL makes sense
Plenty of other examples
 

none of the other airlines has the maintenance capabilities to do their work so of course they have to send the work out.

Again that isn't true. 
For example, United could overhaul its RB211s in-house. If they can run PW4000-110s in SFO they can run a RB211. 
they have the volume (over 100 engines) but yet they seen all that money to TAESL and AA gets half. 
Air Frances sends it 777 Cargo checks and its heaviest A330 Checks to HAECO. They can do them in house but don't. Millions worth of checks going to CX. 
 
Every single airframe check Delta sends out they "could" do them in-house. 
 

the PW2000s for AA and the 895s for DL are/were very small fleet types...even if DL COULD bring that work inhouse, how many Trent 895s would DL overhaul? there is a point of diminishing returns.

Now you are changing you story here. 
It went from Delta isn't going to send millions of dollars to other airlines 
to Delta isn't going to send millions of dollars to other airlines IF or UNLESS
you are playing games. 
 
 
However, I don't disagree that Delta isn't going to send work to MROs if they can do it in-house for less. 

that is NOT the case for a fleet of 50 aircraft which will be as large as AA's 772.

No Ugh
 
you are killing smalls
 
Its a fleet of 25 + 25 aircraft. The Trent XWB and Trent 7000 are NOT the same engine. So they will not be lumped together as such. 
 

but it is also because DL isn't going to pay a premium to have a competitor maintain its engines when DL could very likely do the work cheaper based on DL's overall maintenance costs relative to AA's.

See you are changing your story again. you said Delta or any other airline wont send millions of dollars to other airlines to do MX. That is false. Not even remotely close to true. Happens every day. 
 
Now you are changing it to Delta wont send work to other carriers unless it makes economic sense. That is probably true. 
 
 

EVEN IF DL does not gain the right to insource other work with the 330/350 engines and potentially the 717 engines, DL has very likely succeeded at getting that work inhouse for DL.

Its not an if. If Delta is bringing a Trent XWB and/or a Trent 7000 and/or a Trent 1000 line in-house they are going to do MRO work. The volume is simply not there for them to just do those engines in-house. 
 
The BR715 is a completely different animal. I don't see Richard changing his mind on that unless 1) RRs comes up with some PIPs that increase the TBOs. 2) RR basically quits having all the issues with the engine 3) RR and DL sign a JV. 
 
3 is probably happening. 1-2 aren't likely. The BR715 is just a turd. Its a corporate jet engine use to low cycles that was stuck on a 717 because MD/Boeing weren't willing to spend the money on a good engine. 
 
If a narrow body engine comes in-house my money is on the V2500. I believe Rollers will keep doing the work on the problem child engine. 
 

You have fretted endlessly that DL would be losing work as the 767s and 744s are retired and yet the letter seems to make it clear that DL is building the new engine shop not only to serve DL needs but also to build the MRO business.

*rolls eyes* 
Do you want to play this game with me? let it go. 
 
 
 

we can argue about it for days, but I will bet you dinner that you will find out that DL is gaining the right to do not just its own RR engine work but also MRO work for the same types.

You don't need to bet me anything. I have already said that if they do the work in-house it will come with MRO rights. Delta doesn't have the volume to do them in-house as just Delta engines. 
 
Only engines sent out that have the volume are the PW4168s (would just the same OH line as the PW4060s/PW4062), The CF6-80E1 (goes down the same line as the CF6-80C2) the CFM56-5A (again same line as the CFM56-5B/7) the V2500 (160 or so engines is more than enough) and the BR715 (enough engines but its a problem child) 
 
Right now, without MRO engines Delta couldn't do the Trent XWB, Trent 7000, Trent 1000, Trent 800 or GE90 in-house. 
 
So yes, Delta is getting MRO rights to at least one of the three (T1000, TXWB, T7000) probably 2 of the 3 (TXWB, T7000) and the T1000 will happen if Delta takes its 787s on order. 
 

how about we stand by and wait for more details and then we can compare notes based on facts instead of 700's petulant foot stomping regarding what TAESL has and does not have the rights to do?

He isn't foot stomping. He brings up a good point. 
However as I said it is generally engine by engine not OEM by OEM. 

 

[topDawg]

Sorry Kev. After this i'll stop. 

it does actually.

you just don't know how the real world works.

AA does NOT do more maintenance in house.

I don't want to be the CEO of an airline. I simply want to make sure that your lies and delusion are kept in check.

AA does do more MX in-house. 
 
AA/US aren't a single airline. I seem to recall someone use to same the same about DL/NW (Hell even now you blame **** on NW) 
 

I don't need dawg or you or anyone else to come on here and refute public data which says exactly what I have said... that DL outsources less than WN, UA, or US in total maintenance spend.

adding AA and US' maintenance outsourcing number together comes up with a level of outsourcing at AA and DL that are very similar.

the only reason why you can't stand me is because I highlight everything that you don't want to see or hear about how unions have failed to do a better job in securing jobs and higher salaries when compared to DL employees.

I don't believe I said anything about public data or outsource spend.... FWIW. 
 

I'm presuming that was directed to 700 since he REOPNED the subject.

and of course you don't want to talk about the fact that DL is opening an engine shop.

I'm sure you also don't want to talk about the fact that DL is removing more than 30 RJ flights in DTW and replacing them with mainline flights... and doing the same type of thing in MSP.

and that would involve INSOURCED work.

lol. back on this again. 
Kev hates Delta! 
 

Delightful. When there is a net increase in Dept. 120 headcount, be sure to tell us...
 

^this^
 

And what 3rd party produces your propaganda? Oh ....that's right, the party "You don't represent"!

yo southwind, new engine shop opinion? Curious what your thoughts are since itll be your new home. 

 

[Kev3188]

Bigger question is how many are legit ?
I'm sure that's why the NMB is taking longer this
Time around. Shady

So taking the time to do it right is "shady? How so?

And given that the longer this takes, the longer you have what you prefer (at will employment), what's the rush?


  

Sorry Kev. After this i'll stop. 

It's all good.
 

lol. back on this again. 
Kev hates Delta! 

Lol. Clearly. 🙄
 

 

[700UW]

http://youtu.be/QAIVMHcz_rI

 

[WeAAsles]

http://youtu.be/QAIVMHcz_rI

WOW an endorsement from the AFA for the IAM. Look at that Union solidarity!!!!!!

 

[Kev3188]

Nelson's calm cool demeanor is in quite the contrast to some of the NoWay howlers on the DL property.

 

[700UW]

159 more cards from ACS at LGA:
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

of course the union movement is all one big fraternity because they all know they go down in flames together or they live off of each other's success.

When your minds are as contaminated by visions of the millions of dollars in union dues that DL employees could potentially deliver, of course you lose objectivity.

All we have seen over the past month on this site (since we are at the end of the month) is one denunciation after another of industry statistics that prove that DL people are better off than their peers at other more unionized airlines despite the fact that you can't provide one shred of evidence to prove that your claims of higher compensation with a union are really true in real life.

but hey, who wants to know the truth when it stands in the way of millions of dollars of union dues?

 

[eolesen]

I'm a bit surprised how long it has taken for the election to be called, but it wouldn't surprise me if DL was dragging their feet on providing their side of the supporting documentation needed to finish the determination.

NMB also may not be staffed well enough to process an election this large. Given how the last few DL elections have gone with challenges, I say let it go thru their process at its own speed.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm a bit surprised how long it has taken for the election to be called, but it wouldn't surprise me if DL was dragging their feet on providing their side of the supporting documentation needed to finish the determination.

NMB also may not be staffed well enough to process an election this large. Given how the last few DL elections have gone with challenges, I say let it go thru their process at its own speed.

I think I would have to agree with you on the staffing issue at the NMB? We have been waiting an awful long time for the IAM/TWU Alliance ruling as well. This should explain a few things.
 
What GAO Found
The National Mediation Board (NMB) recently updated its strategic plan but is not meeting some federal strategic planning and performance measurement requirements. NMB missed deadlines for updating its strategic plan and lacks performance measures to assess its progress in meeting its goals, even though an agency's strategic plan should form the basis for everything an agency does.
NMB also lacks some controls in key management areas that could risk its resources and its success:

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-14-5

http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/659360.pdf

 

[WeAAsles]

I think on another issue I'm going to relent and say that (Even though there is no way to be sure) my DL counterparts who work in a hub with 20 years of service make more in direct wages than I "currently" do?

But do they have any of these I have to ask?

TWU AA 209 Pages.

http://twu.org/Portals/0/AirContracts/aa_FleetServiceAgreement.pdf

IAM USAIRWAYS 178 Pages

http://www.iam141.org/us/docs/IAM-FS2014-10-7-14-4-3.pdf

IAM UNITED 126 Pages

http://www.iam141.org/docs/2013-2016%20FLEET%20SERVICE%20EMPLOYEES.pdf

TWU SOUTHWEST 96 Pages

http://www.twu.org/Portals/0/AirContracts/sw_RampCBA.pdf

Sorry but (speaking for myself) I don't really care at all what my counterparts at DL get PAID if I don't have one of these CONTRACTS to specify and outline what exactly my terms of employment and rights are between myself and the company I work for. JMO.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm a bit surprised how long it has taken for the election to be called, but it wouldn't surprise me if DL was dragging their feet on providing their side of the supporting documentation needed to finish the determination.

NMB also may not be staffed well enough to process an election this large. Given how the last few DL elections have gone with challenges, I say let it go thru their process at its own speed.

DL said quite some time ago that they provided the lists to the NMB.

the likely reason for the delay is because a number of DL FAs have signed affidavits that they did not sign cards which the IAM said they have and beyond that there is a list with hundreds if not thousands of FAs that say they want nothing to do with a union.

and once again, you and others keep clutching onto a piece of paper as if it is supposed to offset the economic damage that you and others have had regardless of the paper in your hand.


let's remember that AA and US EACH went thru two rounds of cuts - one of which at AA wasn't even in BK.

to pretend that holding a CBA is supposed to offset lower wages is the height of financial ignorance.

It is perfectly apparent that airline mgmts. have proven more than capable of cutting labor costs even with CBAs in place and have cut deeper than at airlines that have not had CBAs.

Any DL employees that wants to even remotely factor economics into the decision regarding unionization could not help but vote against a union. The evidence that unions have provided better protection or better raises is simply not there.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm a bit surprised how long it has taken for the election to be called, but it wouldn't surprise me if DL was dragging their feet on providing their side of the supporting documentation needed to finish the determination.NMB also may not be staffed well enough to process an election this large. Given how the last few DL elections have gone with challenges, I say let it go thru their process at its own speed.

It wouldn't surprise me to hear the company is dragging its feet, either. Nor will it shock me if/when they then turn around and howl about how long the NMB is taking.


 

I think on another issue I'm going to relent and say that (Even though there is no way to be sure) my DL counterparts who work in a hub with 20 years of service make more in direct wages than I "currently" do?
But do they have any of these I have to ask?TWU AA 209 Pages.http://twu.org/Portals/0/AirContracts/aa_FleetServiceAgreement.pdfIAM USAIRWAYS 178 Pageshttp://www.iam141.org/us/docs/IAM-FS2014-10-7-14-4-3.pdfIAM UNITED 126 Pageshttp://www.iam141.org/docs/2013-2016%20FLEET%20SERVICE%20EMPLOYEES.pdfTWU SOUTHWEST 96 Pageshttp://www.twu.org/Portals/0/AirContracts/sw_RampCBA.pdf
Sorry but (speaking for myself) I don't really care at all what my counterparts at DL get PAID if I don't have one of these CONTRACTS to specify and outline what exactly my terms of employment and rights are between myself and the company I work for. JMO.

We don't have any of that...

 

[WorldTraveler]

again what you do have is PROVEN higher increases in pay than any other airline.

Unless you want to charge that DL is forging its SEC required documents, the evidence is there.

and again, DL said they provided the required lists to the NMB quite some time ago.

It is disappointing and biased when you have access to exactly what DL has said about the matter and then you turn around and post something that contradicts what they said.