Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[WorldTraveler]

because you like so many others can't stand to see the actual truth?

that won't happen here and won't happen anywhere else in life.


how you came up with the post you quoted as the basis for the conclusion you made is even harder to understand....

 

[robbedagain]

best post conehead  

 

[southwind]

Going to make a prediction. Big news coming soon that will make a LOT of people happy and really piss off the IAM !

 

[topDawg]

all you want to do is selectively look at the world to make ONLY DL bad and exclude any comparison that would adequately show that DL has done as good of a job or better at protecting jobs and bringing in work to DL employees than any other carrier.

no i like comparing apples to apples.
You like comparing anything that makes Delta look better and you "win the internets"

of course you don't want to include UA and of course you want to argue that WN is "special" because they both outsource far more than DL - in maintenance DAWG. yes maintenance.

United also doesn't have a joint contract. Having said that I don't expect the IBT to get the UA level of outsourcing down at UA.
I don't believe i said WN is "special" I just simply said I don't expect a carrier to do 100% of MX in house over night.
As i have pointed out, WN has been slowly but surely bringing more work in-house.

and of course you want to hold onto the hope that AA will bring work back inhouse even though based on DOT data which AA itself provided, its outsourcing budget FOR MAINTENANCE, DAWG, increased in 2014 after the merger was legally complete and while AA was reporting on its own certificate.

no **** its called bankruptcy. You make my head hurt.

Same thing happened in 2014 for US.

cool story

but those are actual facts that don't quite support the narrative that carriers with CBAs are actually increasing their outsourcing budgets and they aren't bringing in replacement MRO work.

So you are saying that 700 is wrong and US hasn't been bringing in more work post BK? You are saying that the AMFA contracts with WN are a big lie?

You are wrong again, but keep talking in circles. I enjoy making you look foolish.....

 

[topDawg]

Going to make a prediction. Big news coming soon that will make a LOT of people happy and really piss off the IAM !

wanna give us a little more than that?

 

[WorldTraveler]

again, if there were truly an apples to apples comparison, then that would be fine to use that...

but you are going to do everything you can to keep from making a direct comparison because if you do then it will be apparent that DL really isn't in the bad light that you want to portray them.

I do not have to see DL only in the most positive way... but I will stand by the need to make the closest comparison... simply choosing not to make a comparison because you HOPE it will look better for a unionized company down the road while you are unwilling to give DL the same opportunity is nothing short of simply being lazy or deceitful.

and I didn't say that US hasn't increased the work it has brought inhouse... but its outsourcing budget has still increased.

The DOT statistics are there.... but of course they require that you actually believe them and not try to reject them because they don't tell the story you want.

 

[topDawg]

again, if there were truly an apples to apples comparison, then that would be fine to use that...

but you are going to do everything you can to keep from making a direct comparison because if you do then it will be apparent that DL really isn't in the bad light that you want to portray them.

So you are saying that a fully merged Delta is the exact same as AA/US who aren't fully merged? Yes or no?
 

I do not have to see DL only in the most positive way... but I will stand by the need to make the closest comparison... simply choosing not to make a comparison because you HOPE it will look better for a unionized company down the road while you are unwilling to give DL the same opportunity is nothing short of simply being lazy or deceitful.

Bull
Crap.
 

and I didn't say that US hasn't increased the work it has brought inhouse... but its outsourcing budget has still increased.

so do you have a point? You asked what unions have brought more work in-house. I answered.
now you are avoiding it because you are once again wrong.
 

The DOT statistics are there.... but of course they require that you actually believe them and not try to reject them because they don't tell the story you want.

I always love the "they are out to get my beloved Delta" argument
Or the shut up and take it Leo Mullen style of life.

both really show your true colors.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you might as well have stopped with the bull crap comment because it is clear that you only want to see DL in the most negative light and aren't about willing to compare any valid statistic that shows that DL is doing better.

Your last statement shows your rage-driven bias because I certainly didn't say them. If you can come up with that conclusion which you attributed to me, then you are lacking in the ability to engage in an objective discussion.

doesn't really matter, though. Your peers aren't the least bit interested in a union.

and I do would love to know what news southwind has.

 

[topDawg]

you might as well have stopped with the bull crap comment because it is clear that you only want to see DL in the most negative light and aren't about willing to compare any valid statistic that shows that DL is doing better.

You didn't answer my question because you are running again.
So you are saying that a fully merged Delta is the exact same as AA/US who aren't fully merged? Yes or no?

and I have posted positive things many times about Delta. You are the one who can't accept things around here, not me.

Your last statement shows your rage-driven bias because I certainly didn't say them. If you can come up with that conclusion which you attributed to me, then you are lacking in the ability to engage in an objective discussion.

You don't have to say it. You make it clear in your post though.

doesn't really matter, though. Your peers aren't the least bit interested in a union.

Good!

 

[WorldTraveler]

UA is now how many years past its legal merger and doesn't have merged CBAs throughout the company. even by 700's confession, US took 2 years for its workgroups that actually got merged and some never did.

I never said that DL is identical to AA or UA.

but you want to hold DL to a standard because of labor and mgmt. incompetence at those two airlines that will drag out the process far longer than 2 years.

and you still can't hide behind WN because they do have merged workforces and still have a far higher rate of outsourcing than DL.

but you are just as willing to buy into their non-sense that they are special so shouldn't be compared to other airlines despite the fact that they really do fly the same planes, land at the same airports, and have to follow the same FAA guidelines as legacy airlines.

 

[robbedagain]

of course you forget to mention the fact that there had to be union elections in the US/HP merger as they had 2 separate unions   and it was in 2007 I believe when the first contract was agreed to by company and union leaders, only to be soundly rejected  then not even a yr later in spring of 08 the new deal went thru  followed by the merger of AA and US a PMUS contract was finally signed in 2014 with bonus and enhanced scope  increased wages etc along with wage hikes guaranteed thru 2017 or 18    so in short it did not take nearly as long  and it will be very soon the TWU-IAM Association will begin JCBA talks  and we shall see how bad DP wants to have settlements  

 

[WorldTraveler]

of course parker had ever desire to drag out the process and try to lowball labor as part of the integration process.

And with AA/US, it is precisely because the TWU and IAM have had to create a complex structure that the integration process has been delayed.

And with DL/NW, it was union objections that cost PMNW months and months of pay raises which they never recovered.

It isn't hard to see why DL employees have seen first hand the losses that unions have created for employees and want nothing to do with them.

 

[Kev3188]

of course you forget to mention the fact that there had to be union elections in the US/HP merger as they had 2 separate unions   and it was in 2007 I believe when the first contract was agreed to by company and union leaders, only to be soundly rejected  then not even a yr later in spring of 08 the new deal went thru  followed by the merger of AA and US a PMUS contract was finally signed in 2014 with bonus and enhanced scope  increased wages etc along with wage hikes guaranteed thru 2017 or 18    so in short it did not take nearly as long  and it will be very soon the TWU-IAM Association will begin JCBA talks  and we shall see how bad DP wants to have settlements

Enhanced scope? Must be nice!

 

[robbedagain]

kev  it sure is nice  as its job security bro    Its my hopes and wishes to see you and your peers become union at the big ole widget    you all need it bro
 
sadly I know some on here will denounce it like a demonic demon.... 

 

[WorldTraveler]

still waiting to hear what the announcement is that southwind says is coming but you can put lipstick on a pig but AA/US and UA both have their own people in fewer locations than DL does - and that is just on a below wing basis.

and since dawg seems to think that AA/US shouldn't be held to the same standard as DL because AA/US doesn't have a JCBA, then it is all the more of an indictment that DL has so many more locations with its own people.

and as much as the IAM might have kept some cities which NW was going to outsource and DL has maintained those cities, DL has been far more aggressive in putting its own people above wing and far surpasses what the IAM did or what NW brought to the table.

and since we are talking about FAs also, it is equally noteworthy that DL, not any union, converted the foreign language interpreter positions which NW maintained with union approval and converted those to DL US based positions.

The best track record for preserving scope at the legacies since 9/11 has come from DL, not any union.