IAM Fleet Service topic 28June-

[necigrad]

I can't believe you guys are STILL arguing about this. Get over it. One or both sides are right or wrong. You've all said your piece.

 

[mike33]

I can't believe you guys are STILL arguing about this. Get over it. One or both sides are right or wrong. You've all said your piece.

Thank You...We know all we need to know

 

[Jester]

After all the bickering and accusations on both sides, I realize in the final analysis we are still being poorly managed regardless of the election outcome. In fact, while surfing the net I came across what most would deem to be an unrelated news article to our situation, but yet, I found so many parallels. http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/2442162,jury-award-bulls-scottie-pippen-062910.article

In the story, former Chicago Bulls great, Scottie Pippen, hired a law firm to review a legal document as it related to his intentions to obtain fractional ownership of a 25-year old jet. Unfortunately, the law firm failed to confirm major mechanical checks were completed and would have appeared they failed to disclose his financial exposure should another co-owner default, and there was the matter of the firm's conflict of interest. In essence, sounds like a fair amount of legal malpractice.

So the parallels... the IAM hires attorneys (I assume) to review the T.A. which give carte blanche to Management permitting the Draconian attendance policy. Failing to catch this serious issue within the T.A. these same attorneys conducted legal malpractice, then the posters in the room excuse our Executive Committee's lack of education and experience from asking tough questions much like the former NBA star as paraphrased in the article, "Pippen said he left business decisions to trusted financial advisers." All we are missing is the conflict of interest, and I doubt we would need to scratch that hard on the surface to find some suspect relationships, as my only explanation to this sheer legal incompetency and lack of financial responsibility from the IAM's law firm.

So the "happy" ending is that Pippen received $2 million, even though he was asking for $8.2 million, much like we do not have Boss Canale anymore, even though we still have the same inept Executive Committee, and probably the same crappy attorneys. Don't we all feel better about these recent elections now and the change it will bring?

So Jabs Jester.

 

[mike33]

After all the bickering and accusations on both sides, I realize in the final analysis we are still being poorly managed regardless of the election outcome. In fact, while surfing the net I came across what most would deem to be an unrelated news article to our situation, but yet, I found so many parallels. http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/2442162,jury-award-bulls-scottie-pippen-062910.article

In the story, former Chicago Bulls great, Scottie Pippen, hired a law firm to review a legal document as it related to his intentions to obtain fractional ownership of a 25-year old jet. Unfortunately, the law firm failed to confirm major mechanical checks were completed and would have appeared they failed to disclose his financial exposure should another co-owner default, and there was the matter of the firm's conflict of interest. In essence, sounds like a fair amount of legal malpractice.

So the parallels... the IAM hires attorneys (I assume) to review the T.A. which give carte blanche to Management permitting the Draconian attendance policy. Failing to catch this serious issue within the T.A. these same attorneys conducted legal malpractice, then the posters in the room excuse our Executive Committee's lack of education and experience from asking tough questions much like the former NBA star as paraphrased in the article, "Pippen said he left business decisions to trusted financial advisers." All we are missing is the conflict of interest, and I doubt we would need to scratch that hard on the surface to find some suspect relationships, as my only explanation to this sheer legal incompetency and lack of financial responsibility from the IAM's law firm.

So the "happy" ending is that Pippen received $2 million, even though he was asking for $8.2 million, much like we do not have Boss Canale anymore, even though we still have the same inept Executive Committee, and probably the same crappy attorneys. Don't we all feel better about these recent elections now and the change it will bring?

So Jabs Jester.

For you Jester, I dont think there can be a "Happy Ending ". Your M.O. is to find parrallels to your liking, even if they aren't similar at all. Close enough seems to be good enough for you to assume it's real or factual. Those were the facts from the internet. We

are in a different world than pippen and you are much assuming that his story is a parallel ours. You can save all the eloquent Jibber for I know, as much as you don't want to admit it, you will be here in 10-15 yrs no matter who you are relying on to protect you.

 

[Hope777]

WHEN we Become ONE, it will be much better for ALL of US !

The Day of voting for a Hirer Pay for the Hubs and Class I cities is gone ! We NEED to Band together or the Company has Won the Battle. Today we Walked OFF for a SAFETY Break for Water as per ther Company Training has instructed us to do. And Management blew thier Tops, we only did what the Company has Trained us to do !
We were out in 90 Degree Heat in Excess of 30 Minutes !

Dont give us Water on the Ramp and We ALL have to go inside for a Water/SAFETY Break. Sorry we Missed the SCHEDULE DEPARTURE by One Minute !

Sorry DoUgIe !

 

[roabilly]

After all the bickering and accusations on both sides, I realize in the final analysis we are STILL being poorly managed regardless of the election outcome. In fact, while surfing the net I came across what most would deem to be an unrelated news article to our situation, but yet, I found so many parallels.

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I think the keyword (Still) in the above paragraph has a certain connotation regarding both the PAST, and the PRESENT leadership of the 141. I presume my Dearest West Friend was not happy with the Canolie Regime... and is now consequently not happy with the ND folks.

I’m a man of analogies myself... I suppose your perception is your reality in these matters. What I do find interesting however... is that an individual that loads baggage for a living... and presumably lives and breaths the education mantra, consistently projects a condescending depiction of this Membership for pursuing an educated decision to elect the Leadership that we collectively have chosen!

It seems to me that a true person of Integrity, Leadership, Education, and Talent would embark on an effort of their own to correct these gross misdeeds by forming a ticket... campaigning... and ultimately assuming the Leadership positions they have questioned...

...unless of course this is impossible due to certain peer related issues.

So dials in on the coordinates...

BroBilly

 

[The Janitor]

For you Jester, I dont think there can be a "Happy Ending ". Your M.O. is to find parrallels to your liking, even if they aren't similar at all. Close enough seems to be good enough for you to assume it's real or factual. Those were the facts from the internet. We

are in a different world than pippen and you are much assuming that his story is a parallel ours. You can save all the eloquent Jibber for I know, as much as you don't want to admit it, you will be here in 10-15 yrs no matter who you are relying on to protect you.

Jester does have a point about the attorneys that the IAM provides. Our contract has more gray in it than you can paint a US battleship with. The attorneys are responsible for that. It is intentional also. ALPA made sure their 'change of control' stuck. The IAM's change of control wasn't worth toilet paper. It's pretty much the process. With the last TA, the previous leadership yielded to the economists and attorneys after the foundation and framework of the house was built. Kinda like building a house complete but then not putting the roof shingles on. Also, I haven't seen one IAM contract with a 'me too' clause. That's why I'm not as convinced about us getting scope. Each time, the negotiations committee says it wants to protect the work instead of getting more wage and benefits, but then the iron clad scope ends up costing us hundreds of more jobs.

 

[Jester]

After all the bickering and accusations on both sides, I realize in the final analysis we are STILL being poorly managed regardless of the election outcome. In fact, while surfing the net I came across what most would deem to be an unrelated news article to our situation, but yet, I found so many parallels.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suppose your perception is your reality in these matters. What I do find interesting however... is that an individual that loads baggage for a living... and presumably lives and breaths the education mantra, consistently projects a condescending depiction of this Membership for pursuing an educated decision to elect the Leadership that we collectively have chosen!

It seems to me that a true person of Integrity, Leadership, Education, and Talent would embark on an effort of their own to correct these gross misdeeds by forming a ticket... campaigning... and ultimately assuming the Leadership positions they have questioned...

My Dearest Eastern Friend Roabilly,

Point of fact, I am as much as a part-time/short-time as could be as possible and can calculate my Point-65 to retirement as if I had an HP12c implanted into my brain. I have no desire to be another old guy shuffling his well-worn shoes across the ramp. I was the America West model ramper... part-time, other sources of income, and looking for flight benefits especially after an early retirement. Otherwise I would have applied to SWA a long time ago.

Interesting claim that the "educated decision" was presumably your choice for the New Direction Team... might it be too much to ask for the curriculum vitaes of those running under the ND ticket? Of course, if it is was an "educated decision" then I would assume you could list the expansive collegiate backgrounds of the ND candidates along with a detailed listing of all their degreed programs and their extensive work related experiences, in particular labor relations, personel or the legal profession? I will anxiously await in anticipation of your reply.

Let us face the realities of the situation... we are replacing one broken part with another broken part. The union does not attempt to cultivate talent, but rather attracts little Napoleons and their sycophantic followers. I have never seen a concerted effort to look for new talent to help the union, and in large part, I suspect it is because the local leadership does not want the competition (as evidence by the bickering on this board). I have never been asked my background and when I have suggested ideas I get the "I'll-pretend-to-be-listening-to-you-while-I-am-not-paying-attention" look because the Little Napoleon knows better after being a shop steward for a few years.... at some point, I have other priorities.

In the meanwhile I count the days for Point-65 and when it happens....

So Punches-Out Jester.

 

[blownkneesbob]

Just a heads up about this negotiating idea posting on here. I guess if you want to throw some ideas
around fine but I remember back when I was a teamster. There was NO decision about it except
some break room discussions which by the way were discussed when the manager wasn't around. now
since its obvious that upper management reads these boards more than their inner-office memos
I would be very careful about what is being discussed here. We already have enough against us going in
I probably won't be around when this "new and improved contract" goes into effect. my only idea or
suggestion is INCREASE the Pension contribution.

 

[roabilly]

Just a heads up about this negotiating idea posting on here. I guess if you want to throw some ideas
around fine but I remember back when I was a teamster. There was NO decision about it except
some break room discussions which by the way were discussed when the manager wasn't around. now
since its obvious that upper management reads these boards more than their inner-office memos
I would be very careful about what is being discussed here. We already have enough against us going in
I probably won't be around when this "new and improved contract" goes into effect. my only idea or
suggestion is INCREASE the Pension contribution.

I do not see not see any particular reason why posting Contract proposals or wish lists on here would be detrimental to negotiations.

There will be proposal procedures in place in a few months that will allow all members to submit contract proposals and concerns. The New Direction folks are going to be completely transparent with the Membership in terms of the proposal results.

Once the results are known... The ND will in turn be transparent with the company in negotiations regarding the collective will of the Membership. There is nothing to hide... we want a fair and equitable contract that returns us to an industry leading agreement... just as we were pursuing before Bankruptcy!

This is no big secret... I’m sure the Company monitors these threads... so what! The Membership speaks here... and they will speak at the table through the negotiators. The message will ultimately be the same!

 

[Looking For More]

my appreciation for the nd team for listening to the cries of us in the desert. i heard today that the nd allowed rr to be in charge and its good to know that we finally have a district leadership that listens. i will now hold nothing against the nd and will be grateful for their response. its not that we didnt like the other rep but we need a west rep. rr is the most respected man in phx and will do the job well and the nd can now count on phx being in full support of their team as i will do what is necessary to support the nd. i also hope that others in phx dont continually alienate our station with unnecessary remarks on this web page. its time to work with the district leadership and quit following down the path of those who have no standing. negotiations will be coming soon and the last thing we need is for those who are not well liked here to continue with the personal remarks against the nd.

 

[orioleman]

Roa,
you and I don't usually sit across the aisle on issue's but I have to agree with the other poster

on this one. I agree with everything you said about the process forthcoming but. I don't agree

with openly discussing on here about certain issues . For example scope and language and its

perticulars why giving Hemningway and his band of lawyers time to dissect it even further.

The surveys will be filled out and sent to the district . At No time will the company know prior to

the commencement of negotiations what the top 10 "wish list " will be.

 

[roadtrip]

Roa,
you and I don't usually sit across the aisle on issue's but I have to agree with the other poster

on this one. I agree with everything you said about the process forthcoming but. I don't agree

with openly discussing on here about certain issues . For example scope and language and its

perticulars why giving Hemningway and his band of lawyers time to dissect it even further.

The surveys will be filled out and sent to the district . At No time will the company know prior to

the commencement of negotiations what the top 10 "wish list " will be.

OMAN you are a very wise one OBI WAN has taught you well.......

 

[Jester]

Roa,
you and I don't usually sit across the aisle on issue's but I have to agree with the other poster on this one. I agree with everything you said about the process forthcoming but. I don't agree with openly discussing on here about certain issues . For example scope and language and its perticulars why giving Hemningway and his band of lawyers time to dissect it even further.
The surveys will be filled out and sent to the district . At No time will the company know prior to the commencement of negotiations what the top 10 "wish list " will be.

I am willing to bet that the Tempe Boys already have a Top 10 wish list of the rampers in the up-coming negotiations, as it isn't all that hard to figure out. Lemme take a shot... Wages, Overtime, Vacation, Pensions, Health Insurance, Scope, Attendance Policy, Sick Time, Mano Rules, and Safety issues. No amount of Super Secret Double Probation threats will protect the obvious from becoming public info. If anything, discussing details and hashing them out in an open forum might actually lead to better proposals and concepts when it comes time to sit at the negotiating table... who knows... Management might actually agree with some ideas!

If the argument is that we on this board are giving the Tempe Boys the upper hand on writing the contract language on proposals in advance because the IAM attorneys would be unable to review the document and propose changes before submitting it to the membership, then we have already lost the negotiations.

So Submits Jester.

 

[roabilly]

Roa,
you and I don't usually sit across the aisle on issue's but I have to agree with the other poster

on this one. I agree with everything you said about the process forthcoming but. I don't agree

with openly discussing on here about certain issues . For example scope and language and its

perticulars why giving Hemningway and his band of lawyers time to dissect it even further.

The surveys will be filled out and sent to the district . At No time will the company know prior to

the commencement of negotiations what the top 10 "wish list " will be.

I hear yahh ‘O’...

Maybe I was little too boisterous with that post. I think the excitement of section six negotiations without the cloud of secrecy that was perpetuated by the Canale Regime has propelled me a little out of my intended context.

My intent was to convey that the Membership is not in the mood for concessionary or cost neutral posturing.

I agree with you entirely... we should not present the Company with a copy of our blueprints for the negotiation strategies! Nor should we telegraph our intentions well before negotiations began.

The proposal results should be kept close the vest until an actual Tentative Agreement has been reached.

So adjusts his hat bill...

BroBilly