IAM Fleet Service topic 28June-

[700UW]

You know during negotiations, both sides usually sign a confidentiality agreement and a big part of why you dont hear much is if today they sign off of an article and the next day one side or the other changes their mind, then the membership gets mad and upset.

 

[roabilly]

I am willing to bet that the Tempe Boys already have a Top 10 wish list of the rampers in the up-coming negotiations, as it isn't all that hard to figure out. Lemme take a shot... Wages, Overtime, Vacation, Pensions, Health Insurance, Scope, Attendance Policy, Sick Time, Mano Rules, and Safety issues. No amount of Super Secret Double Probation threats will protect the obvious from becoming public info. If anything, discussing details and hashing them out in an open forum might actually lead to better proposals and concepts when it comes time to sit at the negotiating table... who knows... Management might actually agree with some ideas!

If the argument is that we on this board are giving the Tempe Boys the upper hand on writing the contract language on proposals in advance because the IAM attorneys would be unable to review the document and propose changes before submitting it to the membership, then we have already lost the negotiations.

So Submits Jester.

My dearest West Soldier Jester...

I think the issue here is that with today’s advanced communications when combined with the novel approach of Membership proposal submissions... has left us with the concern of “revealing our hand”.

I would like to suggest that the IAM create a means to submit proposals directly through the 141 website... maybe even adding a forum feature that would allow Members to chat among themselves.

Of course... any such feature would have to be password protected... and only accessible to confirmed IAM members in good standing.

So digs through the gear for an MRE...

BroBilly

 

[roabilly]

You know during negotiations, both sides usually sign a confidentiality agreement and a big part of why you dont hear much is if today they sign off of an article and the next day one side or the other changes their mind, then the membership gets mad and upset.

Agreed 700...

This has been the norm as long as I can remember...

 

[700UW]

Yes it is the norm, I had to write the daily updates during negotiations during bk II and it was hard to word the same old story different ways each day.

 

[orioleman]

My dearest West Soldier Jester...

I would like to suggest that the IAM create a means to submit proposals directly through the 141 website... maybe even adding a forum feature that would allow Members to chat among themselves.

Of course... any such feature would have to be password protected... and only accessible to confirmed IAM members in good standing.

So digs through the gear for an MRE...

BroBilly

Roa,
You will be able to get a link of the 141 website to the survey. Also You hit on a very very good

concept in creating a Members Only (no ref to the 80's) forum. I will pass that on up to our communications

department and see if that would be plausible. Good call on that one. We are back on the same side of the

aisle. LOL.

Jester,
Why would I want to engage on here to you a perfect stranger with possible management ties

about the wording or non-wording (scope/language) of our contract. For all we know you could be

Uncle Al himself. Besides If I could promise you a 10.00 an hr raise you would B*tch about having to pay

more taxes.

 

[roabilly]

Don’t worry ‘O’...

I’m too old and stubborn for a Management position! My ideals are solely rooted in the working culture of this country. This nation was built with the sweat and blood of hard working Americans... not yuppie Managers in loafers and golf shirts!

P.S. We have only sat on opposite sides of the table in training... If my feeble memory serves me correctly... your role was that of the company! LOL!

We elbow tahh elbow now brother!

 

[orioleman]

Don’t worry ‘O’...

I’m too old and stubborn for a Management position! My ideals are solely rooted in the working culture of this country. This nation was built with the sweat and blood of hard working Americans... not yuppie Managers in loafers and golf shirts!

P.S. We have only sat on opposite sides of the table in training... If my feeble memory serves me correctly... your role was that of the company! LOL!

We elbow tahh elbow now brother!

OOOOOOuch.. you got me there.

bringing up a valid question.. Let's see if we can get an answer without a bunch of rhetoric

Has the PHX stewards had any kind of formal training as Shop Stewards . If so . Was the training useful

and helpful . IF not then my question would be Why haven't they been trained yet. Again not looking for

arguments just simple facts. Would be nice to here from a legitimate shop steward, but if you feel that

you will be singled out or called on the carpet then by all means don't respond.

 

[Jester]

My dearest West Soldier Jester...

I think the issue here is that with today’s advanced communications when combined with the novel approach of Membership proposal submissions... has left us with the concern of “revealing our hand”.

I would like to suggest that the IAM create a means to submit proposals directly through the 141 website... maybe even adding a forum feature that would allow Members to chat among themselves.

Of course... any such feature would have to be password protected... and only accessible to confirmed IAM members in good standing.

So digs through the gear for an MRE...

BroBilly

My Dearest Mister Roabilly,

While I believe your intentions are good and well-meaning, but I can envision how the IAM fleet service suggestions website might go.... "Give us more money... I want more time off... the Attendance Policy sucks... I want a bigger pension... No More Mano.... This website sucks..." Not really helpful in terms of concrete ideas outside simple desires. I doubt the IAM epidiascope would be so engaging our suggestions in helpful dialogue in balancing our wants from the realities of a negotiated compromise. This forum would be more balancing and productive than a cyber trash can with the "www.iamSuggestionBox.com" address.

I am not for a moment suggesting the negotiations team reveal its strategy or tactics within this forum, but nor do we need a latebricole existance afraid of open discussion that maybe if the Tempe Boys are reading they might find some common ground on those ideas which are immediately acceptable to both sides. Honestly, I really do not wish to log on to the IAM website as my polysyllabic writing style may compromise my persiflage.

So Phonemicises Jester.

 

[700UW]

Do you really think the company doesnt know what the union membership wants or do you really think the management suck ups wouldnt relay the info to them anyhow?

If you dont believe so, ask me about what happened with Steven Wolf who was CEO at the time and myself.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Has anything changed since the 90s?

 

[john john]

Yes it is the norm, I had to write the daily updates during negotiations during bk II and it was hard to word the same old story different ways each day.

CWA would and has updated the membership with management’s proposals. This would upset management and allow the membership to see how far off management was information helps to galvanize the agents
Mgmt attempts
to suppress
CWA has a policy and an
obligation* to report to is
members and to update them
on meetings, briefings, and
other information that may
affect the careers, lives and
welfare of passenger service
employees. CWA has a long
track record of reports to
members about bargaining,
arbitrations, negotiations,
ratifications, briefings by
management, and Board
of Directors meetings. CWA
believe members are entitled
to know the substance and
content of there meetings with
management, and also the
direction and implication of
policies and programs that
are under discussion. The
only exception CWA makes is
that they don’t publicly report
legitimate, unreleased,
“business confidential” data,
charts, or strategies that would
aid or assist a competitor of
US Airways.
Open Meetings –
No Secrets
Management does not like
this CWA policy. From day one
they have complained about
CWA reports to the members
and have tried to prevent or
censor the distribution of
legitimate information. In the
past, management has even
threatened to sue CWA (i.e.
when CWA reported
the CEO’s threat to shut down
the airline if
the unions didn’t accept the
second round of negotiations),
Management complained
loudly about that report and
wanted CWA to retract it. CWA
pointed out two facts to them:
1) there is nothing “business
confidential” contained in our
report; and 2) the report is
entirely accurate and truthful.
They don’t dispute that the
information in the report is accurate
and truthful; it’s just that
they don’t want the employees
to have that information.
Employees’ right to
Know…
CWA say “business confidential”
refers to unreleased data,
charts or strategies that would
aid or assist a competitor of US
Airways – and CWA doesn't print
that material. But management
thinks “business confidential”
refers to anything they don’t
want the employees to know
about. CWA doesn't see eye-to-eye
on this issue.
* Article III, Section (c) of the CWA
Constitution requires the union to
“disseminate information among
the workers respecting economic,
social, political and other matters
affecting their lives and welfare.”

 

[roabilly]

CWA would and has updated the membership with management’s proposals. This would upset management and allow the membership to see how far off management was information helps to galvanize the agents
Mgmt attempts
to suppress
CWA has a policy and an
obligation* to report to is
members and to update them
on meetings, briefings, and
other information that may
affect the careers, lives and
welfare of passenger service
employees. CWA has a long
track record of reports to
members about bargaining,
arbitrations, negotiations,
ratifications, briefings by
management, and Board
of Directors meetings. CWA
believe members are entitled
to know the substance and
content of there meetings with
management, and also the
direction and implication of
policies and programs that
are under discussion. The
only exception CWA makes is
that they don’t publicly report
legitimate, unreleased,
“business confidential” data,
charts, or strategies that would
aid or assist a competitor of
US Airways.
Open Meetings –
No Secrets
Management does not like
this CWA policy. From day one
they have complained about
CWA reports to the members
and have tried to prevent or
censor the distribution of
legitimate information. In the
past, management has even
threatened to sue CWA (i.e.
when CWA reported
the CEO’s threat to shut down
the airline if
the unions didn’t accept the
second round of negotiations),
Management complained
loudly about that report and
wanted CWA to retract it. CWA
pointed out two facts to them:
1) there is nothing “business
confidential” contained in our
report; and 2) the report is
entirely accurate and truthful.
They don’t dispute that the
information in the report is accurate
and truthful; it’s just that
they don’t want the employees
to have that information.
Employees’ right to
Know…
CWA say “business confidential”
refers to unreleased data,
charts or strategies that would
aid or assist a competitor of US
Airways – and CWA doesn't print
that material. But management
thinks “business confidential”
refers to anything they don’t
want the employees to know
about. CWA doesn't see eye-to-eye
on this issue.
* Article III, Section (c) of the CWA
Constitution requires the union to
“disseminate information among
the workers respecting economic,
social, political and other matters
affecting their lives and welfare.”

I suppose the question here is... are the confidentiality agreements accepted by both the Company and the IAM legally necessary? Or... is this done to keep the Membership out of the loop until a tentative is reached?

I like the idea of immediately transmitting the Company’s ludicrous offers and condescending attitude directly toward the workers! It seems transparency can be a double edged sword and work in favor of the workers!

 

[orioleman]

John John,
not going to quote your lengthy post. But I do agree with how the CWA keeps membership updated

during negotiations. But thats all they did is basically inform the membership of what they were

going to be getting since the CWA/IBT/Passenger Service employees Union or whatever there really

called WASN'T ALLOWED TO VOTE on THEIR T/A. so while the information pipeline is nice it doesn't

do much good if you can't VOTE ON IT..


slow day on the CWA boards I guess .

 

[john john]

John John,
not going to quote your lengthy post. But I do agree with how the CWA keeps membership updated

during negotiations. But thats all they did is basically inform the membership of what they were

going to be getting since the CWA/IBT/Passenger Service employees Union or whatever there really

called WASN'T ALLOWED TO VOTE on THEIR T/A. so while the information pipeline is nice it doesn't

do much good if you can't VOTE ON IT..


slow day on the CWA boards I guess .

Hey I know the back room deals with attendance and outsourcing
Without a vote
By the way who is going to represent UA/CO inside and outside and the mechanics and relative. Might have to get a union alliance
Sound familiar

 

[700UW]

Both mechanics at CO and UA are IBT, Ramp at CO just certified the IBT as their union, upstairs at CO is non-union and both Ramp and CSAs at UA are IAM.