IAM Fleet Service topic

[blue collar]

Necigrad,

Just curious, as you appear to be an informed and reasonable person, what is your opinion of an US FSA working for one of the contractors for one of two reasons: 1) furloughed, or 2) Wanting to pick-up some extra money on the side? This question might have been considered in the LAS station given the recent cut backs. So are furloughed FSA agents working for a contractor considered "scabs" or maybe those that choose to make some side income considered to be "scabs" in your view? Or would it require the contractor work to be that of former US work, but what about other airline FSA work?

Where does this line of acceptably take place within the union mindset? I am open for other people's point of view on this matter too.

So Consults Jester.

It wasn't addressed to me, and I'm not an fsc, but in my view you would be a scab for either incident you posted. 1) When furloughed, you don't go work for the contractor who takes your job. If you do, then you are then a scab. 2) If you need extra money, and are working for a contractor on the side, then you are taking some other airline employee's job : so, still a scab. As far as OT, I know that it is frowned upon in the IAM constitution; however, I see no problem with it as long as there isn't anyone on furlough in your station. If people are on furlough, then no one should be accepting OT. Just my take on it.
--edit-- Anyone who takes a road trip to work at a station who was just furloughed would be a scab too. As in the case with MSY, if anyone goes.

 

[Jester]

It wasn't addressed to me, and I'm not an fsc, but in my view you would be a scab for either incident you posted. 1) When furloughed, you don't go work for the contractor who takes your job. If you do, then you are then a scab. 2) If you need extra money, and are working for a contractor on the side, then you are taking some other airline employee's job : so, still a scab. As far as OT, I know that it is frowned upon in the IAM constitution; however, I see no problem with it as long as there isn't anyone on furlough in your station. If people are on furlough, then no one should be accepting OT. Just my take on it.
--edit-- Anyone who takes a road trip to work at a station who was just furloughed would be a scab too. As in the case with MSY, if anyone goes.

Let me make it clear that I was referring to Necigrad's situation were LAS FSA's were furloughed, but the contractor would NOT be doing the US flights which were reduced. Obviously, that would be quite different from a MSY FSA agent who goes to work for a contractor working US flights which replaced that agent's and other agents' services.

So Clarifies Jester.

 

[niblet]

I've got a question. How many of you brothers and sisters out there have seen blackout dates on your vacation bid. Thats what they are doing in ATL. I never understood how and why the company would want to do that. It happened in GSO back in 99, but stopped just after that. It was grievence. We won. Now its back. How and why do we let this happen. I've recieved numerous calls and made a few of my own. Any one else out there see, hear, or handle anything like this before. I would prefer a union members answer and not a managers version.

 

[Jester]

I've got a question. How many of you brothers and sisters out there have seen blackout dates on your vacation bid. Thats what they are doing in ATL. I never understood how and why the company would want to do that. It happened in GSO back in 99, but stopped just after that. It was grievence. We won. Now its back. How and why do we let this happen. I've recieved numerous calls and made a few of my own. Any one else out there see, hear, or handle anything like this before. I would prefer a union members answer and not a managers version.

I always assume schedules to be based upon operational need and not out of spite. I have never seen a black-out entirely, but I have seen reductions in number of open slots for any given week, in what I assumed to be a busier time of the year or when there is an expectation of more "sick" calls. I would assume that a smaller station would approach zero openings for vacation bid for a week if the norm is, say, only 2 open bid lines otherwise.

However, I would think it to be in the union's preview to ask as to the reasons, just to be sure it isn't out of spite and some true operational need.

So Reviews Jester.

 

[niblet]

I always assume schedules to be based upon operational need and not out of spite. I have never seen a black-out entirely, but I have seen reductions in number of open slots for any given week, in what I assumed to be a busier time of the year or when there is an expectation of more "sick" calls. I would assume that a smaller station would approach zero openings for vacation bid for a week if the norm is, say, only 2 open bid lines otherwise.

However, I would think it to be in the union's preview to ask as to the reasons, just to be sure it isn't out of spite and some true operational need.

So Reviews Jester.

I dont understand if you have say 2 opentimers then why wouldnt you have 2 biddable weeks? I mean how can sick calls be biddable? I was always under the impression that opentime was the same as vacation relief. Contract negotiations might want to rethink that wording. Now back to the topic. I would love to hear a reason the company would blackout a date, or limit weeks. Opentimers bid in advance just like agents do. If you know the schedule for say the next two months the opentimers should be bidding two months. In ATL the Leads , who have their own opentime lead, are not allowed to take back to back weeks. Only every other week is available. Would love to hear that explination.

 

[necigrad]

I have mixed opinions on the label of 'scab' When I grew up it simply meant someone doing struck work. If you worked somewhere in a job that the employees were striking your undermined the strike by helping the company. In your example of MSY it would be contract no matter what. Employees working there in my opinion is not scab work, but it would certainly be subjective. In my humble personal opinion if I'm out of work and need the money I'll do what I need to survive. If people want to call me a 'scab' so be it. I'd rather be a scab then destitute.

The company really does need to get burned on things like this. They make decisions to eliminate jobs and then scramble to make it work. As a shareholder I'm appalled. As an employee I'm embarrassed.

 

[necigrad]

In general LAS had pretty much always have vacation weeks reduced or blocked out at certain times of the year. A decade ago the cargo bid would have zero vacations available for COMDEX. The show was huge and the amount of freight moving was incredible. There were other weeks affected as well, and it varied for various departments.

I think you can cover sick time with an open time agent, but it would only work at a large station. Here (again) at LAS, back before we got slaughtered, you could guarantee you'd have at LEAST 10 sick calls or no shows on certain shifts daily. It would be unwise, based on history, to not plan around that.

 

[niblet]

In general LAS had pretty much always have vacation weeks reduced or blocked out at certain times of the year. A decade ago the cargo bid would have zero vacations available for COMDEX. The show was huge and the amount of freight moving was incredible. There were other weeks affected as well, and it varied for various departments.

I think you can cover sick time with an open time agent, but it would only work at a large station. Here (again) at LAS, back before we got slaughtered, you could guarantee you'd have at LEAST 10 sick calls or no shows on certain shifts daily. It would be unwise, based on history, to not plan around that.

How many times has a manager told you when you ask for help and you know its going to be busy, that they cant schedule for what might happen or irregularities. This work the other way if using opentime for sick calls, unless there were no vacation bid that week and it was an extra line.

 

[niblet]

I have mixed opinions on the label of 'scab' When I grew up it simply meant someone doing struck work. If you worked somewhere in a job that the employees were striking your undermined the strike by helping the company. In your example of MSY it would be contract no matter what. Employees working there in my opinion is not scab work, but it would certainly be subjective. In my humble personal opinion if I'm out of work and need the money I'll do what I need to survive. If people want to call me a 'scab' so be it. I'd rather be a scab then destitute.

The company really does need to get burned on things like this. They make decisions to eliminate jobs and then scramble to make it work. As a shareholder I'm appalled. As an employee I'm embarrassed.

I think I agree with you. If your out of work and the best job around was the contract company that is doing the work you did then so be it. I'm a union guy but when it comes to feeding my family I do what I got to do. I will not cross a picket line or SCAB work.

 

[blue collar]

What you two don't seem to realize, is that doing the contract work IS scab work. Would you work for a contractor doing your old job if you were locked out? By your interpretation, that is not scab work. I completely disagree with what both of you guys think scabbing is. As far as providing for your families, there are other jobs out there, you don't need to scab.

 

[Jester]

What you two don't seem to realize, is that doing the contract work IS scab work. Would you work for a contractor doing your old job if you were locked out? By your interpretation, that is not scab work. I completely disagree with what both of you guys think scabbing is. As far as providing for your families, there are other jobs out there, you don't need to scab.

Hypothetically, *IF* I was one of those unfortunate agents in MSY, and I worked for the contractor who assumed US flights, how could I scab against myself? I would still be working, doing the same job, but just a different employer. Just a matter if the union is collecting my dues and at what pay scale.

If that is considered to be "scab" labor, then what about a furloughed or maybe even a current FSA who is working for a contractor who replaced no OAL workers, because the worker needs the money to pay the bills at home? I suspect you would say that is a "scab" worker too... so what's left? Only working for unionized airlines directly?

You might say, "there are other jobs out there," but have you tried to find other jobs? Employers tend to hire those with experience in an industry or occupation.

So Questions Jester.

 

[700UW]

a : a contemptible person b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms

 

[blue collar]

Hypothetically, *IF* I was one of those unfortunate agents in MSY, and I worked for the contractor who assumed US flights, how could I scab against myself? I would still be working, doing the same job, but just a different employer. Just a matter if the union is collecting my dues and at what pay scale.

If that is considered to be "scab" labor, then what about a furloughed or maybe even a current FSA who is working for a contractor who replaced no OAL workers, because the worker needs the money to pay the bills at home? I suspect you would say that is a "scab" worker too... so what's left? Only working for unionized airlines directly?

You might say, "there are other jobs out there," but have you tried to find other jobs? Employers tend to hire those with experience in an industry or occupation.

So Questions Jester.

You are doing the same thing by working for the contractor that you would be by crossing a picket line. End result: the union jobs that were there will never returned as long as there are people willing to sell themselves and their brothers/sisters short by accepting scab work.

 

[wings396]

We had a similar situation take place when my former station was outsourced back in 2005. The Station Manager was asking a few guys to stick around for a few extra weeks to help train our replacement contract vendor's people. While most of us told him where to go on this subject, he tried to make his point of us keeping our jobs for a little longer. Needless to say, on guy took the bait and stayed on to train the guys that were sent there to replace us. We ripped him apart on his decision, and nobody wanted anything to do with him then, and still to this day. The upside of this story, is that he was offered a job as a recall in another station while he was "Helping" out, and turned it down since he was still working. Little did he know that by refusing recall to another station, he terminated himself once his good deed was over...Got what he deserved in my book.

 

[niblet]

What you two don't seem to realize, is that doing the contract work IS scab work. Would you work for a contractor doing your old job if you were locked out? By your interpretation, that is not scab work. I completely disagree with what both of you guys think scabbing is. As far as providing for your families, there are other jobs out there, you don't need to scab.

You misunderstood what I am saying. In MSY say they close the city to usairways employees and it gets contracted out. You have a choice to transfer, or be out of work. I'm saying if you stay for family reasons and cant afford to move and the only work you can get is with the company thats doing the ramp work at that city. I say thats not scab work. I personnally would not work for that company but I dont think I could hold it against someone else. Its the company that contracts out the work and we dont have any control over that except contractually which in this case was contracted out.