well all they would have to do is come up with another T/A with, lets say american airlines and part of the agreement would mean dove tailing us in thier senority and they had a majority vote. we would be last in line and when they blend everything together and had excessive people we would be the first to go
IAM Mech. & related thread
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well all they would have to do is come up with another T/A with, lets say american airlines and part of the agreement would mean dove tailing us in thier senority and they had a majority vote. we would be last in line and when they blend everything together and had excessive people we would be the first to go
pjirish317
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- Sep 21, 2007
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That's a whole different can of worms. I was just speaking to the IAMNPF issue. The "dovetailing, and the first to go would be the surviving unions job to intergrate, with a T/A, but untill then your CBA is good untill a new one or a T/A is reached that adresses all of the issues. Why do you think the company wanted the "CIC" language gone so bad? I think that the company has found a "Partner" for the consolidation dance, and wants M & R along with fleet all ready to go. JMHO though.
I agree and also think that there is already a deal in the works and things in the airline industry are changing really fast and i think it is all about being the airline that survives in todays world. this company is famous for rubbing our noses in our own mess. since the last contract all you hear from the company and the union is that we voted the last contract in so we did it to ourselves. and all i am asking myself is do i want to hear that same statement until 2012. and my answer is NO
allstrike
Veteran
- Oct 12, 2005
- 759
- 4
I agree lets not do it to ourselves again,If one person gives up something we all loose.Its not fun casting a vote knowing its going to put someone out of work.Enough me me me,we need to look out for all of us.If there is something in the works you know darn well the IAM is in the loop already.Its time for this union to get a little more honest.
brokenwrench
Senior
From the January 10, 2008 Aviation Daily
Labor Unions Face Uphill Battle In 2008, Economist Says
Labor unions have been advised that a looming recession and rising fuel costs could tip the scales in favor of management at the bargaining table this year, and managements will want to drag out negotiations on new contracts as long as possible.
The Association of Flight Attendants (AFA-CWA) is hosting a bargaining summit in Washington this week in conjunction with the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers and the Transport Workers Union in hopes of unifying their negotiating strategies. The unions realize that as soon as one airline lowers wages or reduces benefits in a contract, the others tend to follow (DAILY, Jan. 9). Dan Akins, transportation economist, told the unions the bad news is that even though labor costs have fallen in the past few years, unit costs at U.S. airlines are up about 20%-30% and fuel prices continue to set records. Many airlines also have more cash on hand than they are worth, so they are acquisition targets, he said.
This comes at a time when flight attendants are working longer hours for less pay due to past concessions. However, he informed attendees, which included some pilot representatives and perhaps other labor groups, that he believes the cost reductions sought during the past two years of restructuring are complete and will not reduce labor costs further.
One thing labor can demand is that airlines hike their fares to cover raises for employees. He notes that a 1% increase in revenues for an airline covers a 4%-5% increase in fuel costs. “At Southwest, a 1% increase is $100 million. That covers about a 10% increase in fuel,†Akins said. Labor, therefore, should not be daunted by management’s cry over fuel costs, all of which have been covered by passing the costs on to the consumer, he added.
Unions must use the fact that they are sharing best practices as leverage. “The worst contract that comes out of this era is going to be precedent-setting,†he said. It will be in management’s best interest to draw these negotiations out right now as carriers post profits and the cyclical nature of the business returns to the point where labor has given enough and wants to get back its fair share. In fact, Morgan Stanley analysts yesterday ranked labor risk as one of the top three important themes to watch in 2008. “Open negotiations and histories of poor labor relations will likely be overhangs on a number of stocks throughout the year, and investors should position themselves accordingly,†the Morgan Stanley report said. Akins also told union negotiators to watch for net margins hitting 5% and operating margins 10%. As a rule of thumb, anything above that is gravy, and anything below that goes to “pay the mortgage.â€
In 2001, airlines spent $14.8 billion on fuel. In 2006, the fuel bill was $38.4 billion. But airlines reported profits in 2006. The reason is they raised their fares, he said. “Make people pay for service,†he said, referring to employees believing they are overworked and underpaid. Flight attendants at JetBlue have seen their block hours rise 58% from 2001 to 2006, he said, because they must work more to maintain the pay and lifestyle they are accustomed to. During that same period, the block hours flown by American flight attendants are up 40%, and at United and Delta 36%. And because the majors are shifting to more international flights, which pay better, and cut so many junior flight attendants, the pay increases cited by management do not truly reflect the pay cuts and work rule changes, he said. Continental is the only airline that has given pay increases that match inflation, Akins said.
Many legacy carriers also are allowing regional partners to fly more domestic block hours by a substantial margin. But paying for that service instead of flying it themselves is more costly. Akins said a large part of a major’s core costs is paying for its affiliates, which is why airlines, such as American and Delta, want to separate from their regional affiliates. Once that happens, those costs will go down, he said.
Another big question in this game of negotiations is looming consolidation. Looking at the current market value, he notes that AMR, which is worth $2.9 billion, paid down $1 billion in debt last year — about the price it would have to pay to buy Northwest. He told the labor summit that United, Delta and American are the “actors.†The answer to American’s domestic problems is to buy Northwest or Delta, and its international solution is to buy Northwest. For Delta, purchasing Northwest or United is its domestic solution, while buying Northwest is its international solution. And for United, acquiring Continental or Delta would serve it well domestically, and buying Continental would be its international solution.
He adds that Continental “is the pretty girl at the dance sitting on the sidelines. It doesn’t have to dance†but can sit back and wait for the best offer. US Airways, however, is “poison†because of labor strife, among other reasons. -[email protected]
Labor Unions Face Uphill Battle In 2008, Economist Says
Labor unions have been advised that a looming recession and rising fuel costs could tip the scales in favor of management at the bargaining table this year, and managements will want to drag out negotiations on new contracts as long as possible.
The Association of Flight Attendants (AFA-CWA) is hosting a bargaining summit in Washington this week in conjunction with the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers and the Transport Workers Union in hopes of unifying their negotiating strategies. The unions realize that as soon as one airline lowers wages or reduces benefits in a contract, the others tend to follow (DAILY, Jan. 9). Dan Akins, transportation economist, told the unions the bad news is that even though labor costs have fallen in the past few years, unit costs at U.S. airlines are up about 20%-30% and fuel prices continue to set records. Many airlines also have more cash on hand than they are worth, so they are acquisition targets, he said.
This comes at a time when flight attendants are working longer hours for less pay due to past concessions. However, he informed attendees, which included some pilot representatives and perhaps other labor groups, that he believes the cost reductions sought during the past two years of restructuring are complete and will not reduce labor costs further.
One thing labor can demand is that airlines hike their fares to cover raises for employees. He notes that a 1% increase in revenues for an airline covers a 4%-5% increase in fuel costs. “At Southwest, a 1% increase is $100 million. That covers about a 10% increase in fuel,†Akins said. Labor, therefore, should not be daunted by management’s cry over fuel costs, all of which have been covered by passing the costs on to the consumer, he added.
Unions must use the fact that they are sharing best practices as leverage. “The worst contract that comes out of this era is going to be precedent-setting,†he said. It will be in management’s best interest to draw these negotiations out right now as carriers post profits and the cyclical nature of the business returns to the point where labor has given enough and wants to get back its fair share. In fact, Morgan Stanley analysts yesterday ranked labor risk as one of the top three important themes to watch in 2008. “Open negotiations and histories of poor labor relations will likely be overhangs on a number of stocks throughout the year, and investors should position themselves accordingly,†the Morgan Stanley report said. Akins also told union negotiators to watch for net margins hitting 5% and operating margins 10%. As a rule of thumb, anything above that is gravy, and anything below that goes to “pay the mortgage.â€
In 2001, airlines spent $14.8 billion on fuel. In 2006, the fuel bill was $38.4 billion. But airlines reported profits in 2006. The reason is they raised their fares, he said. “Make people pay for service,†he said, referring to employees believing they are overworked and underpaid. Flight attendants at JetBlue have seen their block hours rise 58% from 2001 to 2006, he said, because they must work more to maintain the pay and lifestyle they are accustomed to. During that same period, the block hours flown by American flight attendants are up 40%, and at United and Delta 36%. And because the majors are shifting to more international flights, which pay better, and cut so many junior flight attendants, the pay increases cited by management do not truly reflect the pay cuts and work rule changes, he said. Continental is the only airline that has given pay increases that match inflation, Akins said.
Many legacy carriers also are allowing regional partners to fly more domestic block hours by a substantial margin. But paying for that service instead of flying it themselves is more costly. Akins said a large part of a major’s core costs is paying for its affiliates, which is why airlines, such as American and Delta, want to separate from their regional affiliates. Once that happens, those costs will go down, he said.
Another big question in this game of negotiations is looming consolidation. Looking at the current market value, he notes that AMR, which is worth $2.9 billion, paid down $1 billion in debt last year — about the price it would have to pay to buy Northwest. He told the labor summit that United, Delta and American are the “actors.†The answer to American’s domestic problems is to buy Northwest or Delta, and its international solution is to buy Northwest. For Delta, purchasing Northwest or United is its domestic solution, while buying Northwest is its international solution. And for United, acquiring Continental or Delta would serve it well domestically, and buying Continental would be its international solution.
He adds that Continental “is the pretty girl at the dance sitting on the sidelines. It doesn’t have to dance†but can sit back and wait for the best offer. US Airways, however, is “poison†because of labor strife, among other reasons. -[email protected]
Ten Year pay scale. Will this be part of our legacy to new hires in this industry? Is this a possible situation? Let's say five years ago mech A starts at US and mech B starts at HP. Today mech B is at the top of his pay scale while mech A needs another five years. If so what does this TA do to relieve this injustice? Vote NO anyway, the pension plan is a sham.
Planemx
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- Nov 20, 2007
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Planemx
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- Nov 20, 2007
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The COC language is worth MILLIONS to the company - the longer it is left in the contract the more it is worth in the event of a merger/acquisition. The TA is an illusion, the only thing that really is happening is that language is removed at every proposal. The rest is slight of hand crap. The COC for the ramp has to do with outsourcing the outstaions based on 'mainline' flight activity per week (on an annualized basis).....not the same and not nearly the money. The iam readily coughs up over 1/2 a billion dollars to the company for positive space travel to the committee cheese weenies and the sacred dues of their 'beloved members'......sober up guys - as soon as the ink is dry we'll hear the rest of the story.
So rants Rachet.....
BeenThereDoneThat
Veteran
An AP article in the AZ Republic Business Section today titled: Airlines must hurry to get OK on mergers before Bush exits. "The Bush administration has rarely met a merger it didn't like." Sounds like someone expects a merger express lane to open up.
one thing i don't understand how can they let people vote on this contract when they don't pay union dues for over a year now in philly. i thought that is what is known as "IN GOOD STANDINGS" the union says all they have to do is sign a paper and they are able to vote. these are mainly new hires but some people are from furlough statis. now they are telling us that if we are paying the reduced dues which is only to the international that we are not able to vote or have a say in contract or special votes. my question is why if you pay nothing in union dues you have more power then someone who pays the reduced dues. i feel they should not be able to vote at all!!. and if you would like to check on this call your AGC Tony Giamarco. he knows about this issue.
This is how fast we are desolving as members of any union. No body has been given our rites as union members. There is a BECK law that gives union members their rites on the spot to be objectors or whole members. IAM has Blatently forgotten to post the union members rites on the walls of the break rooms nor have they handed the rules to be an objector. This will eventually be presented and there will be penalties. This is a Federal rule for unions. The IAM is a FLAKE!
we also have to remember that these are the same people saying your money is safe in our pension fund that the IAM oversees. It is the old Iam saying "trust us"
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