if we cannot recommend it, we’re not sending it

[olderguyAMT]

The one lesson we should have learned by now is that the Negotiating Committee should not have sole decision making when voting for a T/A.

I would reccommend local bylaw changes to reflect 2 things:

1- The president or representative at negotiations must consult with the local board before voting on a T/A

2- Recall of Local Officers (check and balances)


Negotiation Committee bylaw change:

1- Negotiation committee will not vote on T/A until fuill text language has been reviewed by the Negotiations committee and their local Boards.

2- Once a vote is made by the Negotiation Committee, Any changes made to the T/A (including language) must be
revoted by the Committee regardless of content.

Makes sense doesn't it?

Yes, it all makes perfect sense, and we need more leaders that think like that. We need more checks and ballances.

When could those changes happen, and how?

Something else that would be useful, would be for all the VP's of all locals to publicly reject the TA as it is currently written. They could write a letter similar to the MacTierman Letter.
If we knew how they stand on the issues, it would be easier to vote for the right candidate.

For the Yes Voters, a candidate could spell out what they like about the issues. and the same for the No Voters. Then there would be a paper trail to hold them accountable, too. If they get wishy-washy and want to flip-flop we will know it.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Yes, it all makes perfect sense, and we need more leaders that think like that. We need more checks and ballances.

When could those changes happen, and how?

Something else that would be useful, would be for all the VP's of all locals to publicly reject the TA as it is currently written. They could write a letter similar to the MacTierman Letter.
If we knew how they stand on the issues, it would be easier to vote for the right candidate.

For the Yes Voters, a candidate could spell out what they like about the issues. and the same for the No Voters. Then there would be a paper trail to hold them accountable, too. If they get wishy-washy and want to flip-flop we will know it.

Something else to have in negotiations is full transparency. No secret letters of confidentiality. There should be full disclosure to the membership as to how any votes go. There should also not be any roll-call vote potential. One local = one vote.

 

[MCI transplant]

Something else to have in negotiations is full transparency. No secret letters of confidentiality. There should be full disclosure to the membership as to how any votes go. There should also not be any roll-call vote potential. One local = one vote.

<_< ------- Ken, I love the way you think, but can you really see it?------- TUL one vote, vrs. MCI one vote? I don't think they'd stand for that!!! (Yes, for the time being, at least, MCI is still here!)

 

[TWU informer]

<_< ------- Ken, I love the way you think, but can you really see it?------- TUL one vote, vrs. MCI one vote? I don't think they'd stand for that!!! (Yes, for the time being, at least, MCI is still here!)

My personal opinion is that One vote would have lead to MRO wages for TUL and $45 per hour for the line long ago.
Or Overhaul would have been gone completely.

While I like and respect the Line Mechanic, the fact is they would take theirs and shaft Overhaul in a New York minute given the chance.

In other words as bad as I despise the undemocratic TWU, the fact is without that Overhaul would have been outsourced or wage desimated worse than already taking place long ago.

Majority Rule in our current society of greed and selfishness will never lead to fairness. Just look at the 1000 plus AMT Scabs at NWA for a perfect example of greed coming before sanity and fairness.

What would happen to the Welder, Machinist, Plater, Stock Clerk, Automotive, and Facilities Maintenance Men in a one man one vote union full of a majority A&P AMT's?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

My personal opinion is that One vote would have lead to MRO wages for TUL and $45 per hour for the line long ago.
Or Overhaul would have been gone completely.

While I like and respect the Line Mechanic, the fact is they would take theirs and shaft Overhaul in a New York minute given the chance.

In other words as bad as I despise the undemocratic TWU, the fact is without that Overhaul would have been outsourced or wage desimated worse than already taking place long ago.

Majority Rule in our current society of greed and selfishness will never lead to fairness. Just look at the 1000 plus AMT Scabs at NWA for a perfect example of greed coming before sanity and fairness.

What would happen to the Welder, Machinist, Plater, Stock Clerk, Automotive, and Facilities Maintenance Men in a one man one vote union full of a majority A&P AMT's?

Dave,

In a true craft union, which I truly believe is possible, the fear of overhaul going "in a New York minute" would not happen. I for one can not say loud enough, or write enough, that we need each other in order to produce a world class product. Do not prejudice the Line because of the un-union attempts of people like burchette. A real union does not pit one group against another. I do not see carpenters or electricians attack their own the way the twu has permitted AA to do here. As to the welder, machinist, etc. they are the union as much as the AMT. I do not mean to be corny but the following expression rings true for real unionism... one for all and all for one!

 

[skydrol]

My personal opinion is that One vote would have lead to MRO wages for TUL and $45 per hour for the line long ago.
Or Overhaul would have been gone completely.

While I like and respect the Line Mechanic, the fact is they would take theirs and shaft Overhaul in a New York minute given the chance.

In other words as bad as I despise the undemocratic TWU, the fact is without that Overhaul would have been outsourced or wage desimated worse than already taking place long ago.

Majority Rule in our current society of greed and selfishness will never lead to fairness. Just look at the 1000 plus AMT Scabs at NWA for a perfect example of greed coming before sanity and fairness.

What would happen to the Welder, Machinist, Plater, Stock Clerk, Automotive, and Facilities Maintenance Men in a one man one vote union full of a majority A&P AMT's?

Anyone who has read this persons posts over the years will see that if he feels like he cannot "get his" HE IS OUT, for example his motive for amfa was he was rejected by his local to be a union official. (dave)You are needing to go to your local inner child healing meetings to make peace with yourself. Your position changes with the wind why folks like Ken coddle you is beyond most normal folks comprehention. Ken and folks need to forget his so called drives he will sell you out for a buck now that he feels like the line has the leverage. He was all in when he thought that Tulsa controlled everything. You suck in case no one has told you so. Next thing you should do is chide me for a alias since you do not go by one oh yeah you do but everyone can tell it is you.

 

[TWU informer]

Anyone who has read this persons posts over the years will see that if he feels like he cannot "get his" HE IS OUT, for example his motive for amfa was he was rejected by his local to be a union official. (dave)You are needing to go to your local inner child healing meetings to make peace with yourself. Your position changes with the wind why folks like Ken coddle you is beyond most normal folks comprehention. Ken and folks need to forget his so called drives he will sell you out for a buck now that he feels like the line has the leverage. He was all in when he thought that Tulsa controlled everything. You suck in case no one has told you so. Next thing you should do is chide me for a alias since you do not go by one oh yeah you do but everyone can tell it is you.

Actually I respect your opinions without conditions. I have been to the meetings making peace with myself and that is a wonderful feeling. Sorry if you feel I am not entitled to change opinions, most in this country are entitled too. I have been told that I suck by others and accept those opinions as I do yours. Not going to "chide" you for the alias, but would like to know your ideas on how to improve our circumstances and what you have done lately to implement those ideas?

Thanks

PS Obviously you really don't know me or the reasons you give for my particiipation in the AMFA drive would be more accurate.But hey go ahead and believe and repeat what they told you at the Union Hall, they never lie.

...comprehention is actually spelled comprehension, but this isn't a speeling bee.

Maybe someday I will qualify as "normal folk" as you put it, until then I will just have to keep going to meetings.

 

[skydrol]

Actually I respect your opinions without conditions. I have been to the meetings making peace with myself and that is a wonderful feeling. Sorry if you feel I am not entitled to change opinions, most in this country are entitled too. I have been told that I suck by others and accept those opinions as I do yours. Not going to "chide" you for the alias, but would like to know your ideas on how to improve our circumstances and what you have done lately to implement those ideas?

Thanks

PS Obviously you really don't know me or the reasons you give for my particiipation in the AMFA drive would be more accurate.But hey go ahead and believe and repeat what they told you at the Union Hall, they never lie.

 

[Hopeful]

While I like and respect the Line Mechanic, the fact is they would take theirs and shaft Overhaul in a New York minute given the chance.

And I guess the overhaul folks would go to the ends of the earth for the line mechanic?

 

[TWU informer]

And I guess the overhaul folks would go to the ends of the earth for the line mechanic?

Nope, all are greedy just as is society in general.

That is why divide and conquer works so well.

Hell, we couldnt even get everyone to stick together and leave a company provided chicken sanwhich on the table to show unity.

 

[Hopeful]

Nope, all are greedy just as is society in general.

That is why divide and conquer works so well.

Hell, we couldnt even get everyone to stick together and leave a company provided chicken sanwhich on the table to show unity.

I don't have a problem with any mechanic....But I do believe if GEO pay were supported long ago, there would be no animosity towards the base and line and vice versa.

 

[TWU informer]

I don't have a problem with any mechanic....But I do believe if GEO pay were supported long ago, there would be no animosity towards the base and line and vice versa.

I agree. Is'nt that what the T/A'd $2.55 in line premium is though?
If not $2.55 then how much?

I have no problem myself with GEO pay as I have personally vistied AMT's at line stations and can see the cost of living difference.

 

[skydrol]

glad that warm fuzzy feeling is your own and not someones else? so are you running for a officer position to change the system like "Ken" did. We can see how that worked out lol. Although I am glad I can finally hear"Ken" say the same issues he had with the TWU before he was elected ( for those not in the loop he did not say anything bad about the twu until this pos contract and i may say weeks after the ta was anounced ) he would not say anything bad about the intl. as he was strutting around with Z and S he did not say sheit. It is amazing how all of a sudden a persons view can change given the (correct circumstance) as far as spelling you need to chill and take your perscriptions and you will be ok unless you decide you do not need to take them then that is ok and you can come up with more corrections if that makes you feel happy .

 

[TWU informer]

glad that warm fuzzy feeling is your own and not someones else? so are you running for a officer position to change the system like "Ken" did. We can see how that worked out lol. Although I am glad I can finally hear"Ken" say the same issues he had with the TWU before he was elected ( for those not in the loop he did not say anything bad about the twu until this pos contract and i may say weeks after the ta was anounced ) he would not say anything bad about the intl. as he was strutting around with Z and S he did not say sheit. It is amazing how all of a sudden a persons view can change given the (correct circumstance) as far as spelling you need to chill and take your perscriptions and you will be ok unless you decide you do not need to take them then that is ok and you can come up with more corrections if that makes you feel happy .

I cannot help but notice both of your recent post contirbute nothing to the discussion, but instead offer complaints and personal attacks against others.

You didn't happen to skip over the request for ideas and what you have done lately to help out on purpose did you?

I have no illusions that the TWU will ever be changed regardless of who gets elected to local office.

All one has to do is read the Constitutional Convention Proceedings of 1989, 1993, 1997, 2001, 2005 ect to see that substantial change is not really possible within the TWU. Have you read any of these Documents?

 

[Hopeful]

I agree. Is'nt that what the T/A'd $2.55 in line premium is though?
If not $2.55 then how much?

I have no problem myself with GEO pay as I have personally vistied AMT's at line stations and can see the cost of living difference.

Yes, this TA...I meant GEO should have been introduced a long time ago.