load of crap

[kcabpilot]

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On 2/18/2003 3:59:16 AM UnitedChicago wrote:

less anyone forget - ua is in ch11. change will happen like it or not.

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This isn't a point of weather or not "change will happen". My point is that THIS change, as outlined in THIS plan will fail.

Do you know why labor is the biggest cost? Because that is what an airline is made up of - LABOR. It takes an incredible amount of WORK to make it all happen. Now if you draw up a plan that not only ignores the interests of that majority segment but borders on treating them with disdain then you've got a problem and those colorful exploding "Prosperity!" icons on your Powerpoint graphs are - what's the name of this thread? Just a "load of crap".

 

[ual747mech]

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On 2/17/2003 11:25:25 AM PITbull wrote:

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Well, here's a no brainer...MARKET, MARKET, MARKET, THE AIRLINE, and RAISE the damn fares! Even the gov. raised the allowable mileage from .27 cents a mile to .32.

We have security measure costs and fuel prices. THEY ALL SHOULD BE RAISING FARES!

THIS IS A BUSINESS FOR PROFIT!

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The problem with that plan is "if ual raise the fares and the other carriers don't" then where do you think most of the passengers will go to? This is a cutthroat business were in, if one carrier cut their fares others will more likely follow, especially in this economy, because they don't want to lose their market shares. In a stronger economy the demand is more and supply is less, each carrier then can control their fares to their advantage, especially if they dominate that route. Of course, each brand got its advantage and disadvantage. Southwest has low fares while United has frequent flier perks but I don't think that's not doing us any good right now. Overall, the economy is to blame.

 

[FrugalFlyer]

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On 2/18/2003 4:09:29 PM SVQLBA wrote:
Me thinks cannibalization will be a big issue. I see Air Canada (cited as an example of new thinking) is rethinking its approach as the red ink re-appears
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So management should learn from the AirCanada mistake(s).

IMHO, ACTango was working in the selected few markets that it was initially introduced - but then the brilliant AC management started flying ACTango pretty much everywhere = trouble. And, to top it off, they introduced a second low fare airline ACZip = confusion.

 

[SVQLBA]

This ppt file brought to mind the Dilbert strip, where they decide the new strategy is "to identify a trend and follow it."

Take, for example, the network the LCC will fly. There is nothing that makes many (not all) of those routes intrinsically "leisure oriented" or "price sensitive" other than the fact that SW has forced yields down on many of them. E.g., CLE-ORD/MDW is no more price sensitive than CLE-DTW except SW operates on one (CLE-MDW) and forces one-ways to $99 while on the other CO and NW charge $600. SW and jetBlue could instantanteously turn the rest of UA's route map into "price sensitive markets." by the logic used here.

Me thinks cannibalization will be a big issue. I see Air Canada (cited as an example of new thinking) is rethinking its approach as the red ink re-appears

 

[mga707]

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On 2/17/2003 9:49:28 PM N230UA wrote:

Pardon me, but this kind of presentation is not for mechanics, other technical employees, and front line employees to understand -- notice all the management buzzwords.
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Oooh, neat--it's chock-full o' "buzzwords"!
I hope they didn't leave out "paradigm". That's my favorite nifty-sounding yet utterly meaningless bit of verbiage.
Life imitates "Dilbert"...

 

[Segue]

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On 2/18/2003 4:33:40 PM mga707 wrote:

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On 2/17/2003 9:49:28 PM N230UA wrote:

Pardon me, but this kind of presentation is not for mechanics, other technical employees, and front line employees to understand -- notice all the management buzzwords.
[/blockquote]

Oooh, neat--it's chock-full o' "buzzwords"!
I hope they didn't leave out "paradigm". That's my favorite nifty-sounding yet utterly meaningless bit of verbiage.
Life imitates "Dilbert"...

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Those "buzzwords" are how us management folk speak! Just like jargon in any specialty. You have your own too.

 

[mga707]

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On 2/18/2003 6:06:09 PM Segue wrote:

Those "buzzwords" are how us management folk speak! Just like jargon in any specialty. You have your own too.
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There is an important difference between jargon and buzzword-speak.

Jargon refers to technical terms and acronyms that are used within a specific field or specialty, and are usually confusing to those outside the field or specialty.
"Buzzwords" carries more of a perjorative meaning--trendy words and/or phrases all too often used in lieu of actual substance.
(example)
If I hear one more thing about the movement, or lack thereof, of a certain dairy product, I'm gonna hurl...

 

[MrMarky]

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On 2/18/2003 4:33:40 PM mga707 wrote:




Oooh, neat--it's chock-full o' "buzzwords"!

I hope they didn't leave out "paradigm". That's my favorite nifty-sounding yet utterly meaningless bit of verbiage.

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Yeah I agree completely. But the thing is chock-full of my candidate for most assinine buzzword. That would be "metrics". You see it all over the place these days, usually the source is someone who wants to come across as intelligent and on top of things. Trouble is it is so stupid and means absolutely nothing. Hell we don't even use the metric system in this country.

I'm sure the ultimate metric must be a "paradigm metric". Who are the pompous a$$es that come up with this stuff? There are plenty of good words in the English language that would not only work, but give the reader some semblence of what they're talking about. Whenever I see the word "metric" used, I immediately conclude that the author is someone who hasn't got a clue and tries to mask the fact with a word having no meaning, but sounding impressive.

If United had a few less "paridigm's" and "metrics" perhaps they would be turning a profit. Funny, there doesn't seem to be too many substitutes for that word.

 

[avek00]

Personally, I think that the plan is the latest piece of garbage from UAWHQ, since it offers lofty goals with no means by which to achieve them. Not to mention that it centers around creating a new product that merely takes the worst aspects of Shuttle and magnifies them to a larger scale.

 

[delldude]

paradigm...isn't that twenty cents?
don't forget to bring popcorn...these roads shows are where its at.

 

[Segue]

Perhaps using more single syllable words might help you? Keep in mind most of the audience this was written for have at least a bachelors degree.

Metric and paradigm are both legitimate words (not "buzzwords") that have concise meaning and have been in use for years.

Metric: "A standard of measurement" - American Heritage


Paradigm has been in use for 400 years according to American Heritage:

One that serves as a pattern or model.
A set or list of all the inflectional forms of a word or of one of its grammatical categories: the paradigm of an irregular verb.
A set of assumptions, concepts, values, and practices that constitutes a way of viewing reality for the community that shares them, especially in an intellectual discipline.

[Middle English, example, from Late Latin paradgma, from Greek paradeigma, from paradeiknunai, to compare : para-, alongside; see para-1 + deiknunai, to show; see deik- in Indo-European Roots.]
Usage Note: Paradigm first appeared in English in the 15th century, meaning “an example or pattern,â€￾ and it still bears this meaning today: Their company is a paradigm of the small high-tech firms that have recently sprung up in this area. For nearly 400 years paradigm has also been applied to the patterns of inflections that are used to sort the verbs, nouns, and other parts of speech of a language into groups that are more easily studied. Since the 1960s, paradigm has been used in science to refer to a theoretical framework, as when Nobel Laureate David Baltimore cited the work of two colleagues that “really established a new paradigm for our understanding of the causation of cancer.â€￾ Thereafter, researchers in many different fields, including sociology and literary criticism, often saw themselves as working in or trying to break out of paradigms. Applications of the term in other contexts show that it can sometimes be used more loosely to mean “the prevailing view of things.â€￾


Maybe it is time to break out of your paradigms?

 

[MrMarky]

Segue,

Thanks for the dictionary definitions, though I'm confident most of us here know what metric and paradigm are supposed to mean, and yes I have "at least a bachelors degree".

The problem is that these yo-yo's who are so fond of embellishing their presentations with such terminology DO NOT use it in the context of the definitions you have so kindly provided. Therefore, they are meaningless, other than to make the author feel more intelligent or knowledgable than they really are. Too bad the rest of us can plainly see that, but they think they're being oh-so-smart.

"Imperial" is also a standard of measurement (UK) but you don't see people writing presentations using it. "We are applying our universal paradigm imperials to this model...", what a joke. Good thing the porno industry doesn't adopt these intellectual pseudonyms. "Check out the paridigm metrics on that guy/gal!!"

By the way, Paradigm is also a Canadian loudspeaker company among many other things.

I wonder what the "metrics" are for fuel consumption on the 767-200? There's some folks at Air Canada who might like to discuss that. I believe it was over Saskatchewan that they ran out of "gas" (that's a metric for good old Jet A) because some idiot was all hung up on his metrics when fueling the aircraft. Fortunately, they glided to a truly paradigm landing.

Take care,

m[b]AA[/b]rky

 

[synchronicity]

On 2/19/2003 3:24:01 PM Segue wrote:

Perhaps using more single syllable words might help you? Keep in mind most of the audience this was written for have at least a bachelors degree.

So you mean that people with "at least bachelor's degrees" can't understand monosyllabic words?

Metric and paradigm are both legitimate words (not "buzzwords") that have concise meaning and have been in use for years.

Yes, and almost all "buzzwords" are "legitimate" words , but "paradigm" has become almost "trendy" today; you see it sprinkled in powerpoint presentations and "mission statements" like pesto and arugula on sandwiches in trendy cafes, you can't get away from it. There comes a point at which the word is being overapplied because the vagaries of the term allow it to be used almost anywhere (look at the definition you supply: "A set of assumptions, concepts, values, and practices that constitutes a way of viewing reality for the community that shares them, especially in an intellectual discipline.") You can extend that to almost any situation, although I see the replacement of Newtonian physics by the principles of quantum physics as a paradigm shift. I don't really see a cheaper way to manufacture widgets (or run an airline) in quite the same light.

The problem isn't that they're using "big words". The problem is that those "big words" don't add any additional meaning to the discussion. Rather, they obfuscate the fact that the presentation is stating the blatantly obvious, but makes the presenter try to look more impressive. Kinda like the way I just used "obfuscate" instead of "hide", only multiplied a dozen-fold. One could also say that the universe of vocabulary that is frequently categorized within the definitional matrix known to the layman as "buzzwords" is deficient in adding value to the comprehension experience, thereby violating one of the rubrics of an effective communication paradigm.

For example, take the bit about UAL's plan and conditions in capital markets I referenced in that other thread. They take 16 pages to say something that any bozo with half a brain can sum up in one short paragraph. I guess those 16 pages also showed that the presenter had a knowledge of Moody's and S&P debt ratings, but since the presentation was to creditors, I'm guessing they have some passing knowledge of such things.

Eh, but what do I know?

-synchronicity

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 2/17/2003 11:25:25 AM PITbull wrote:

Well, here's a no brainer...MARKET, MARKET, MARKET, THE AIRLINE,

Can't disagree with you there.

and RAISE the damn fares! Even the gov. raised the allowable mileage from .27 cents a mile to .32.

We have security measure costs and fuel prices. THEY ALL SHOULD BE RAISING FARES!

THIS IS A BUSINESS FOR PROFIT!

Disagree with you there. If anything they should generally LOWER fares and ELIMINATE penalties. In other words, treat your customers as though they are your friend, not your adversary. Raise the loss leader fares, sure, but dramatically LOWER the "unrestricted" fares, and get rid of the damn penalties accross the board.

Think about it...if they company adopted your strategy, the ad campaign would go something like "Fly United - we just raised all our fares and loaded up the advance purchase fares with a bevy of penalties and restrictions. You'll love our new "no food in coach" service, and our use it or lose it policy just can't be beat."



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[KCFlyer]

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On 2/19/2003 3:24:01 PM Segue wrote:

Perhaps using more single syllable words might help you? Keep in mind most of the audience this was written for have at least a bachelors degree.

And many of the audience have also pushed when the door said pull. YOur point is?

Metric and paradigm are both legitimate words (not "buzzwords") that have concise meaning and have been in use for years.

And have been in overuse in corporate boardrooms for the past decade.

Of course, I'm not a lofty MBA who tries to make every employees goals somehow address the one (usually run-on) sentence called the "Mission Statement"

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