load of crap

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On 2/17/2003 1:32:02 PM kcabpilot wrote:

So now they've come up with this bean counters dream where a fresh new company with a fresh new product staffed with fresh new low paid "engaged" employees takes over the market by storm and pummels all of the current low cost carriers into oblivion. Now, would any of these fresh new low paid "engaged" employees have any ideas to contribute? Doesn't matter because none of them are going to be asked, just told. The Powerpoint slides have all been printed out in order and it would be just too much trouble to change any of them.

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so exactly what do you want? They have even gone so far as admitted they have been out of touch with the employees and want to fix it. Maybe you don't believe it, but in that case the only outcome that would be logical would be to liquidate.
 
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On 2/17/2003 1:32:02 PM kcabpilot wrote:

This management treats "labor" just like a piece of clipart that you can drag around and drop on some Powerpoint charts. They've never once come out of their lofty digs to solicit ANY feedback from any of the workers (you know, the people that do all the stuff that actually makes this airline function).

So now they've come up with this bean counters dream where a fresh new company with a fresh new product staffed with fresh new low paid "engaged" employees takes over the market by storm and pummels all of the current low cost carriers into oblivion. Now, would any of these fresh new low paid "engaged" employees have any ideas to contribute? Doesn't matter because none of them are going to be asked, just told. The Powerpoint slides have all been printed out in order and it would be just too much trouble to change any of them.

What's missing here is reality. Too many people hold up in offices spending too much time at computer screens.

And BTW Segue: this IS "status quo". We've seen plenty of these Powerpoint wonder plans in the past 10 years from the same group and not a single one of them has panned out. This one here though is the grandaddy of them all - one last ditch effort.
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"Power point presentation"...we've all been there, done that at U.

As far as "reality", there's no such thing as the "real world"; it's just a lie YOU HAVE TO RISE ABOVE...


 
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On 2/17/2003 5:22:45 PM UnitedChicago wrote:

mr. hell:

removing the BOD is out of the question for now. while i agree that they have failed numerous times over the last 2 years - you just can't remove the bod at this time.

who would replace them? how much time would it take to replace them? how long does the new bod need to determine their own plan?

ua just doesn't have the time to do that drastic of a move.

so you've got to work with what ya got.

in terms of them transforming the company - they have a proposal to do just that. creating a lcc to compete with southwest, et al. reduced costs across the entire operation.

i think that's a pretty big transformation - as long as they can come to agreement with all stakeholders.

what would you propose the current bod do differently?

Pitbull:

You can't be serious about raising fares.
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I knew, Chicago, you would have a real problem with that!
 
After scanning all 278 pages, it appears to be a good plan. I cannot say having a LCC within a carrier is the best way to go because I think it is going to hemmorage labor strife, but if they can implement what they have put in this powerpoint presentation, you will most likely survive and prosper. The proof is in the actualization ans implementation. Having done a 4 hour Powerpoint presentation of my own, I know how huch thought and energy go into them. People have spent a huge amount of careful thought preparing that plan. If you disagree with parts of it, then disagree. But if you think it has a shot, go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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On 2/17/2003 5:31:41 PM Segue wrote:

so exactly what do you want?

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I want to see a sensible, flexible, interactive proposal in which the employees ARE engaged. You want the workers to invest in this plan? Fine, but if we are to make the sacrifices and invest in it then we are going to be the first to recieve a - what do they call it? ROI? We are simply not interested in signing up for 10 years of proscribed concessions. We are simply not interested in having these terms dictated to us by beancounters who only see numbers and have no inkling of the hundreds of simple, sensible, everyday routine changes that can make this company work.

And you are absolutely correct Segue - the only other option is to liquidate. Do they want to do that? If not they better start listening instead of dictating because without the workers, this scheme hasn't got a chance.
 
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On 2/17/2003 5:22:45 PM UnitedChicago wrote:

mr. hell:

removing the BOD is out of the question for now. while i agree that they have failed numerous times over the last 2 years - you just can't remove the bod at this time.

who would replace them? how much time would it take to replace them? how long does the new bod need to determine their own plan?

ua just doesn't have the time to do that drastic of a move.

so you've got to work with what ya got.

in terms of them transforming the company - they have a proposal to do just that. creating a lcc to compete with southwest, et al. reduced costs across the entire operation.

i think that's a pretty big transformation - as long as they can come to agreement with all stakeholders.

what would you propose the current bod do differently?

Pitbull:

You can't be serious about raising fares.
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The secured creditors committee will immediately assume control to protect what little value they have remaining. And those creditors probably have more airline experience than the current BOD. This event has occurred in other bk cases.

All of this other blather, powerpoints, "negotiations" etc is just a sideshow.

The creditors WILL assume control, soon.
 
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On 2/17/2003 5:57:23 PM autofixer wrote:

WARNING: The above business plan has been tried and is being implemented at USAirways. Expect great pain and sacrifice, while management reaps the benefits. Expect employee groups to be pitted against each other and manipulated at managements' great pleasure--since they have all of the real information. Pilots, expect your pension to be terminated so that your union will go to a 1113 hearing and cause all of the other groups pensions to be terminated too; thus, allowing management to wash their hands of the whole situation and blame the pilots who have six figure incomes. Expect to be threatend with liquidation on a daily basis, unless you give into management's demands with no questions. Expect to be reminded by management and other employee groups that you cannot replace your income readily, because there are thousands of other airline employees on furlough.

Warning, I repeat, Warning, management is full of crap. You can make it on the outside. It is much more rewarding and enjoyable. Let management eat cake.

That is all...That's enough! [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/2.gif']
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Autofixer,

I am with you 100%....same plan, same time, same station.
[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/6.gif']
 
After a busy day - i've had the chance to review the ppt. this is a strong, comprehensive analysis and plan.

again nay sayers - what would you do different? and don't say you'd "engage the work force" because that's not a reorganization plan.
 
It is a very sharp plan that took what seems obvious ("LCC is just copycat" theory) and showed how UA's version is really quite sophisticated.

Pardon me, but this kind of presentation is not for mechanics, other technical employees, and front line employees to understand -- notice all the management buzzwords.

Management is there to run the airline. They have their own way of speaking amongst themselves and you should respect that, just as they respect your skills when it comes to fixing airplanes, ensuring a safe and dependable flight, etc.

"LABOR" -as in the union menbers on this board- keep on talking about how management won't listen.

Has "LABOR" ever once just accepted management's work for itself WITHOUT *****ing and moaning?

"LABOR" is lucky enough to have a management that sees the potential in the company, and is striving to avert breakup.

Most other management teams would refuse to deal with such an unsatisfiable workforce and would rather liquidate.
 
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On 2/17/2003 9:49:28 PM N230UA wrote:

It is a very sharp plan that took what seems obvious ("LCC is just copycat" theory) and showed how UA's version is really quite sophisticated.

Pardon me, but this kind of presentation is not for mechanics, other technical employees, and front line employees to understand -- notice all the management buzzwords.

Management is there to run the airline. They have their own way of speaking amongst themselves and you should respect that, just as they respect your skills when it comes to fixing airplanes, ensuring a safe and dependable flight, etc.

"LABOR" -as in the union menbers on this board- keep on talking about how management won't listen.

Has "LABOR" ever once just accepted management's work for itself WITHOUT *****ing and moaning?

"LABOR" is lucky enough to have a management that sees the potential in the company, and is striving to avert breakup.

Most other management teams would refuse to deal with such an unsatisfiable workforce and would rather liquidate.
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WERD!!!
 
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On 2/17/2003 9:49:28 PM N230UA wrote:

Pardon me, but this kind of presentation is not for mechanics, other technical employees, and front line employees to understand -- notice all the management buzzwords.

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Whatever, but let's agree to this: without the support of labor this plan, and this airline, are going nowhere. If the DIP financers want to ever see any of their money again they can dump this seperate LCC company plan in the trashbin because labor is definitely NOT on board that train.
 
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On 2/17/2003 9:41:11 PM UnitedChicago wrote:

mr. hell:

current bold prediction: creditors will assume control soon

past bold prediction: 777-LHR-Feb8

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You missed one. In November of 2001 I posted "UA will go Ch 11" while other wishy-washy posters were hopin' and wishin' and prayin'.

Kinda like what you've been doing here.

Watch what will happen. Then let's hear one of your "bold" ideas.
 
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