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NEW ROUTES---Announcement When/Where

AFA was told last week that the 3 new 757's will be configured with 8 "Premium" seats and 180 coach seats.
There will be no Envoy class or service on these aircraft. The "Premium" seat product will be just that...a bigger seat with no additional service. AFA was told this decision is driven by competition.
Those 8 people up front get a slightly bigger seat and get the SAME SERVICE as in the back? So now we are going to have 2 levels of product to Europe. BAD BAD move in my view.
 
AFA was told last week that the 3 new 757's will be configured with 8 "Premium" seats and 180 coach seats.
There will be no Envoy class or service on these aircraft. The "Premium" seat product will be just that...a bigger seat with no additional service. AFA was told this decision is driven by competition.
Those 8 people up front get a slightly bigger seat and get the SAME SERVICE as in the back? So now we are going to have 2 levels of product to Europe. BAD BAD move in my view.
AA offers 75 service to Europe with one service and they are successfull. SNN, LIS and GLA are routes with leisure travelers in mind. Very positive things happening at US. :up:
 
AA offers 75 service to Europe with one service and they are successfull. SNN, LIS and GLA are routes with leisure travelers in mind. Very positive things happening at US. :up:


Well F me, if AA does it, it must be the right move. :shock: :unsure:
 
With 8 premium plus 180 regular seats, everyone should have more pitch than on the current West fleet: 14/176.
 
Well F me, if AA does it, it must be the right move. :shock: :unsure:
They are very successful with it and these are routes that are filled with leisure passengers not alot of FF's or business passengers. In the inventory it is not indicating these F seats being for sale.
 
I would have thougt that PHL to GLA and Ireland would have a fair bit of Pharmaceutical Execs. But they're shortish flights
 
I think DUB made good money on Envoy class where as SNN and GLA was more mileage upgrades, thats why DUB keeps the 767
 
They are very successful with it and these are routes that are filled with leisure passengers not alot of FF's or business passengers. In the inventory it is not indicating these F seats being for sale.

The flights are seasonal (summer)only. The 75s have the same configuration as all other AA 75s, 22 F/C seats, 162 coach. (I think the coach # is correct. I don't remember exactly how many seats they put back in when they eliminated MRTC, but 162 is close enough.)

I may be wrong, but as I understand it...
The F/C seats are not "sold," per se. Nor do we charge extra for them. They are assigned to FFs, VIPs, special needs passengers (wheelchair or crutches, for instance) and family members traveling with them.

And, yes. I understand that they have been very successful.
 
From all the complaining on here it would appear the concensus is that the only strategy that would be successful in the future is what failed in the past.

Would the critics of the new management care to list those previous USAirways policies and products that actually created a PROFIT for the airline? Not just that were popular, but actually proved crucial in USAirways profit in the current low-cost environment.
 
GLA Rearely Had Anyone In Envoy When I Worked Them..Smart Move And SNN as Well. If No one Is Buying Business Class On These Routes Why Offer It! :up:
 
AFA was told last week that the 3 new 757's will be configured with 8 "Premium" seats and 180 coach seats.
There will be no Envoy class or service on these aircraft. The "Premium" seat product will be just that...a bigger seat with no additional service. AFA was told this decision is driven by competition.
Those 8 people up front get a slightly bigger seat and get the SAME SERVICE as in the back? So now we are going to have 2 levels of product to Europe. BAD BAD move in my view.

This is exactly as I understand it from what I have read. What you view as being a bad move is pretty much a smart business decision. Here is the problem with adding Envoy type seats to the Transatlantic 757's:

We are getting 3 "new" airplanes that will be dedicated to the TA flights. We will either upgrade and recertify 2-3 airplanes as ETOPS that are currently in the fleet or there are additional B757's coming from somewhere. You have to have a back up airplane for MTC checks and Unsked MTC items. Just because we fly one route 4 days a week isn't going to cover the MTC needs of the airplanes.

So...we currently have 31 B757's on the east side. We are adding 3 more. If we reconfigure the 3 ETOPS airplanes with Envoy type seats and product, we will remove additional coach seats - diluting revenue - for a product that we rarely, if ever, sell. Now, you will need to have a fleet standardization with the B757 fleet. If you configure those 5-6 airplanes as 16/168 you either create a sub fleet in a very small fleet type, or you reconfigure all of the 757's to the standard 16/168 configuration. Reconfiguring an entire fleet of airplanes, for three routes, with seats that you generally don't sell at the list price, doesn't make a lot of sense.

Other carriers have been successful with their programs, many of which offer a true 3 class service on many of their routes to Europe. If they were not successful in their launch of this type of service, I am sure it would have been pulled and changed. There is no reason to think our service will not be as successful. I would be more upset if they were trying to sell the 8 seats as J - Enjoy Seats - and watering down the product that we do offer.

I am sure that if our plan is to go after a certain companies business, we will set up a marketing deal with them to provide the enhanced coach seats when available.

So the bottm line becomes, is it worth spending the money on an envoy type seat on 34 airplanes when you won't really recoup the costs with tickets sold at the premium fare? I don't think so. I think that the way they are handleing this is the best that we can do with the resoucres we have available.
 
I don't think the a/c interiors make a huge difference. Does anyone remember when the MD-80 was being reconfigured? We had the Phase 1 and Phase 2. Then we had what some called the Phase 2.5 that was a half reconfig with the new bins but the condo still in the beginning of coach. You never knew what you were gonna get when boarding. And the job the poor agents had. It was a total headache on the florida runs. Regardless of how many seats the a/c has in f/c or coach won't make a difference as long as the a/c is ETOPS to fly to Europe. They will probably leave the whole a/c the same in back with the blue seats from ATA. We all know it takes a lot of cash to change the interior. There are pics of the interior of the newer 757's on jetphotos.net Totally different than either of US's 757's whether east or west.
 
The difference with the MD80 and the 757 would be the total number of seats. The MD80 reconfiguration was to move the Mid galley to the aft dog house area. It really only changed the total coach seats by 2. When you knew which version of a/c that you had, you initialized the seat mask and it added the uncommon seats to the map.

This would be different. You would have a/c configured for 8/185 and 16/168. Imagine you were flying PHL-LAS and it was scheduled to operate with the reconfigured ETOPS airplane. Due to a MTC issue the 16/168 airplane was out of service and now you roll up an 8/185 airplane. Imagine what woud happen when you have to tell 8 people they can't have their F/C seat.

There is a difference between the F seats we run domestically and a true Envoy seat product. Those seats are just way to expensive to place on a fleet of 34 757's.
 
True the Envoy seat is costly but we are going to run into this problem when the west and east fleet is integrated. I'm sure the ETOPS a/c won't be flying domestic except for possible a/c placement like the 767 between CLT and PHL. If it were something unscheduled, sure it would be a real pain in the @$$ and inconvenient for the passenger. Oh yeah, when the MD-80 changed from 8 f/c seats to 12 it also removed the whole section of seats A and C from row 31 to 33. The agents new of the a/c config almost NEVER. I being a f/a dreaded it and ran up the jetway or told the agent immediately upon opening the door.
 

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