OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Zone5]

We're all in SJ! You guys have PSA'd us with your high costs, nothing too surprising. I agree, the east network is an anchor to two once great airlines.

Based on your response to my post, my first impression was that you have a reading comprehension problem. After reading it again, I think you may be delusional.

Do you really think that? WOW, just WOW! How you possibly could conclude from my post that I was saying, "the east network is an anchor to two once great airlines", is just beyond me! Why do you think Parker has the West idling out in PHX? He just said in the last Crew News, that if he was not required to maintain the min fleet, in accordance with the current contract, PHX would be even smaller.

Hello, it's for you, REALITY calling!


seajay

 

[Phoenix]

Can someone please tell me where the term "legitimate union purpose" is found in accepted DFR standards? First time I heard it was from Wake, and now from Silver. I am asking.

Greeter

Legal said it "law" now. For whatever that is worth...

Certainly whatever Wake and Silver meant by "legitimate union purpose", they most definitely had no intention of altering the SCOTUS DFR standard of "wide range of reasonableness". Even Wake, who may have been unfamiliar with the SCOTUS standard when he wandered off the reservation, quickly complied with the 9th.

 

[EastUS1]

Ouch.....

You do realize a slanderous defamation of character can carry harsh monetary penalties?

Sigh! No doubt "billions in damages" as usual....? Best get the lawyers right on it! Your first hurdle here would be in establishing that any existent "character" could in any way be "defamed". 😉

 

[EastUS1]

Certainly whatever Wake and Silver meant by "legitimate union purpose", they most definitely had no intention of altering the SCOTUS DFR standard of "wide range of reasonableness". Even Wake, who may have been unfamiliar with the SCOTUS standard when he wandered off the reservation, quickly complied with the 9th.

Indeed.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Thanks, he did miss out. Dad's a great guy and loved by many at this company.

Don't know if I met Pi Senior or not, since I don't know who PI is.

 

[Black Swan]

How could the west stop "pursuing the Nic"? Who represents the west and who could initiate, negotiate, or settle upon a different path that would ensure that USAPA and the Company would be free from any legal action from not retaining the NIC for any JCBA contract talks? If 1 or 1,000 west pilots "agreed" in whatever form you or USAPA might like to abandon the NIC, there would be no change in legal liability for USAPA or Management. Thus the Company has two choices, appealing to the 9th notwithstanding: 1) negotiate with USAPA and risk a substantial collusion liability from one or more west pilots (or east for that matter) in a future lawsuit or 2) refuse USAPA's request to insert a Non-NIC list because they consider the legal risk of doing so to be too great. The west pilots, in whole or in part, cannot take a single action to change these two choices USAPA has forced Management to make.

The fact the West pilots continue to fall back on the argument that there is no one to represent them is an easy out. They have no problem suing with Leonidas, and hiring lawyers, meeting, organizing, producing videos, mailers etc. They have a well organized mechanism of organization to pursue what they want, and then fall back on what you just said. At this point, nobody cares anymore if they don't organize to work something out. That train is leaving the station as I see it. Let the chips fall where they soon will. Cannot help those who do not try themselves.

 

[Black Swan]

You'll stagnate when we integrate.

Just a matter of time.

I really don't see that happening. Not after what Parker said. All the risk is surely coming home to PHX,

 

[luvn737s]

The fact the West pilots continue to fall back on the argument that there is no one to represent them is an easy out. They have no problem suing with Leonidas, and hiring lawyers, meeting, organizing, producing videos, mailers etc. They have a well organized mechanism of organization to pursue what they want, and then fall back on what you just said. At this point, nobody cares anymore if they don't organize to work something out. That train is leaving the station as I see it. Let the chips fall where they soon will. Cannot help those who do not try themselves.

There can only be one bargaining agent. Bradford must have missed that chapter in Union Busting for Dummies.

 

[Metroyet]

The fact the West pilots continue to fall back on the argument that there is no one to represent them is an easy out. They have no problem suing with Leonidas, and hiring lawyers, meeting, organizing, producing videos, mailers etc. They have a well organized mechanism of organization to pursue what they want, and then fall back on what you just said. At this point, nobody cares anymore if they don't organize to work something out. That train is leaving the station as I see it. Let the chips fall where they soon will. Cannot help those who do not try themselves.

You still don't get it. DFR lives with the INDIVIDUAL. Anybody can sue for it...but you need lawyers. The lawyers are not de facto RLA "representation". Staggering how you don't understand that yet. The West pilots carry a real, identifiable, proven threat. The East makes noise and crys. USAPA is the CBA. Period. You did this to yourselves.

 

[Keroseneuser]

You still don't get it. DFR lives with the INDIVIDUAL. Anybody can sue for it...but you need lawyers. The lawyers are not de facto RLA "representation". Staggering how you don't understand that yet. The West pilots carry a real, identifiable, proven threat. The East makes noise and crys. USAPA is the CBA. Period. You did this to yourselves.

My guess is that is why parker filed to "Bind the west class" on the 18th in regards to silvers ruling. In context with what you said above and what was said in the town hall he is trying to set it up so he only has to defend against a DFR one time.

However I am not a lawyer, but the reason for the 18th filing was a bit of a mystery when I read it. in the context of your post though it makes more sense. The "bind the west class" had the date set so it encompassed "all west pilots employed on or before " the 2005 transaction date.

 

[luvn737s]

Please edit/re-write that so as to render it even the least bit coherent....?

The question is quite clear - Can you produce any evidence that the east would negotiate away from a DOH award in order to placate the minority west?

Perhaps you misplaced your English-Windbag dictionary. Understandable.

 

[Metroyet]

My guess is that is why parker filed to "Bind the west class" on the 18th in regards to silvers ruling. In context with what you said above and what was said in the town hall he is trying to set it up so he only has to defend against a DFR one time.

However I am not a lawyer, but the reason for the 18th filing was a bit of a mystery when I read it. in the context of your post though it makes more sense. The "bind the west class" had the date set so it encompassed "all west pilots employed on or before " the 2005 transaction date.

It simply fixes a technicality the Judge never intended. The company is going to appeal.

 

[Black Swan]

There can only be one bargaining agent. Bradford must have missed that chapter in Union Busting for Dummies.

This is exactly why you are going nowhere. So be it.

 

[luvn737s]

My guess is that is why parker filed to "Bind the west class" on the 18th in regards to silvers ruling. In context with what you said above and what was said in the town hall he is trying to set it up so he only has to defend against a DFR one time.

Oh, but there are other benefits to retianing the west class, specifically the damages that may eventually be awarded. The west shouldn't have to pay themselves just because they are current USAPA members.
Delightful, isn't it?

 

[Black Swan]

You still don't get it. DFR lives with the INDIVIDUAL. Anybody can sue for it...but you need lawyers. The lawyers are not de facto RLA "representation". Staggering how you don't understand that yet. The West pilots carry a real, identifiable, proven threat. The East makes noise and crys. USAPA is the CBA. Period. You did this to yourselves.

No, you did it to yourselves trying to push the Nic. There is a middle ground somewhere, that now will never be found.